Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

forster
Hi all

Just FYI the Open Mapping team at Microsoft has been very active,  
editing in Australia, over the last week. You can view their program  
at https://github.com/Microsoft/Open-Maps and their team members at  
https://github.com/Microsoft/Open-Maps/wiki/Open-Maps-Team-at-Microsoft

Tony



_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

Ewen Hill
Thanks for the heads up.
   I have found a large number of canals/ditches added as minor roads or
tracks in NW Victoria as well as fences as tracks etc. I have sent a message
however has anyone else noticed other issues in the following areas?

<http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/file/t343391/ms.png>



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Australia-f5416966.html

_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

osm.talk-au
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/58382600

This user, which on his user page says "I am proud to be in Microsoft Open Maps team." Has been making a lot of "Fixed geometry" changesets.

Now, the motorway he worked on did indeed in part need fixing, as it was in places 10-30m out of position.

But the particular stretch in that changeset I just fixed up myself a few days earlier, using imagery with corrected offsets, and taking into account tagged lane information (because of the placement tag, the "way" that defines the motorway is not always in the absolute centre of all lanes).

I made a changeset comment to which I didn't get a reply, so I send a direct message to the user on 29th April to which I also didn't get a replay.

Cheers,
Thorsten

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ewen Hill <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, 5 May 2018 12:07
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian
> edits
>
> Thanks for the heads up.
>    I have found a large number of canals/ditches added as minor
> roads or tracks in NW Victoria as well as fences as tracks etc. I
> have sent a message however has anyone else noticed other issues in
> the following areas?
>
> <http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/file/t343391/ms.png>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Australia-f5416966.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au



_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

Andy Townsend

On 05/05/18 04:10, [hidden email] wrote:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/58382600
>
> This user, which on his user page says "I am proud to be in Microsoft Open Maps team." Has been making a lot of "Fixed geometry" changesets.
>
> ...
> I made a changeset comment to which I didn't get a reply, so I send a direct message to the user on 29th April to which I also didn't get a replay.

They haven't done anything in OSM in the last 8 days; maybe they saw
your messages, forgot about them, and then went on holiday?  Or it might
just be that their email isn't getting delivered*.  If they come back to
OSM and don't reply then drop the DWG an email and we'll be able to let
them know that people are trying to get in contact.  The "I've seen a
problem; what should I do?" bit of
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group should help.

Best Regards,

Andy (from the DWG)

* insert your own outlook/hotmail joke here

_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

Jubal Harpster
Hi Guys,

Sorry for the communication breakdown here, we're still evolving our processes. This particular person has been out of the office for over a week which is why they haven't responded to the changeset comment. I am the OSM lead at Microsoft, feel free to reach out to me personally with any concerns or you can reach the whole team using [hidden email].

-Jubal

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Townsend <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 2:00 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits


On 05/05/18 04:10, [hidden email] wrote:

> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.o
> penstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F58382600&data=02%7C01%7Cjubalh%40micros
> oft.com%7Cea5d0242814843dcae6208d5b266a87e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd
> 011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636611076356212980&sdata=MvQwVszimKwLlvC0dwK8w%2Bz49
> AY3btgid8P1lleAUe4%3D&reserved=0
>
> This user, which on his user page says "I am proud to be in Microsoft Open Maps team." Has been making a lot of "Fixed geometry" changesets.
>
> ...
> I made a changeset comment to which I didn't get a reply, so I send a direct message to the user on 29th April to which I also didn't get a replay.

They haven't done anything in OSM in the last 8 days; maybe they saw your messages, forgot about them, and then went on holiday?  Or it might just be that their email isn't getting delivered*.  If they come back to OSM and don't reply then drop the DWG an email and we'll be able to let them know that people are trying to get in contact.  The "I've seen a problem; what should I do?" bit of
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.osmfoundation.org%2Fwiki%2FData_Working_Group&data=02%7C01%7Cjubalh%40microsoft.com%7Cea5d0242814843dcae6208d5b266a87e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636611076356212980&sdata=OU82dAw7eV%2BZA70j4c4dXMywjmVfpUcBsif8oghMfCA%3D&reserved=0 should help.

Best Regards,

Andy (from the DWG)

* insert your own outlook/hotmail joke here

_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-au&data=02%7C01%7Cjubalh%40microsoft.com%7Cea5d0242814843dcae6208d5b266a87e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636611076356212980&sdata=NgMKcfk4fNeeFKEX55Mg2lfrKeQjGGLwPazncHoY3CE%3D&reserved=0
_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

FW: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

osm.talk-au
In reply to this post by osm.talk-au

I only just noticed that these didn’t go to the mailing list. I was wondering why everyone behaved like these posts hadn’t be made…

 

 

From: Nemanja Bračko <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, 5 May 2018 17:37
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

 

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll inform rest of the team about that!

 

On Sat, 5 May 2018, 09:24 , <[hidden email]> wrote:

The central point is not the (minor) misalignment of the imagery, but the fact that you then didn’t take the placement attribute of the way into account when fixing the geometry.

 

You can use the “lane and road attributes” map style in JOSM to visualize this.

 

It is described in detail here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/placement

 

And here is a real world example from that particular changeset (I fixed it again already):

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ulmnym4jcwh3fue/placement_fixed.jpg?dl=0

 

You can see how the way stays in the middle of the 3 permanent lanes, even when the 4th lane is added.

 

This is indicated by the placement=middle_of:3 tag on the 4 lane section. (middle_of:3 indicates that the way is in the middle of the 3rd lane from left, where the definition of left depends on the direction of the way).

 

The “fixed geometry” version you uploaded was instead like this:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lt4g36o6ewib4kf/placement_wrong.png?dl=0

 

 

Having the way move to the middle of the 4 lanes every time a temporary 4th lane was added (entry or exit lanes) instead of keeping the way in the middle of the 3 permanent lanes as the placement tag indicated.

 

Don’t get me wrong, that motorway was in need of having it’s geometry adjusted in many places. Thanks for that. But this particular section of it was already mapped correct down to the individual lanes just a couple of days earlier, and then someone came along and messed it all up again.

 

Cheers,

Thorsten

 

 

From: Nemanja Bračko <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, 5 May 2018 16:53
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [talk-au] Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

 

Hi!

 

My name is Nemanja and I would like to try to answer this.

Our goal is to fix as many as possible geometries and two of the routes that had high priority geometry issues are roads that connects Brisbane and Townsville. DareDJ is not the only one who is involved in this task.

 

All of us are taking in account GPS traces as well (when there are many of them), and trying to align with geometry. In that point we get exact position and high quality of geometry. If that's not a case, then there is no enough GPS traces (we can not guarantee that just one or very few GPS traces are correct) we are mapping per imagery, and one day, when we get enough GPS traces, we can apply just offset without any remapping and spending hours and hours on mapping.

 

I just want to clarify why one or very few GPS traces can not be considered as ground truth. It is because we do not know which GPS is used and what is the precision and how much satellites was in that moment. Some of these GPS traces are very old or taken with old devices, e.g. Nokia N95 which has tolerance of +-30 meters. That can be 60 meters of offset!

 

I hope I had explained it well.

Please excuse if there are typos, I'm typing on my phone.

 

PS. DareDJ (as most of us) was offline and will be until Monday, so that's the reason why he didn't answer on your message.

 

Best Regards,

Nemanja

On Sat, 5 May 2018, 05:10 , <[hidden email]> wrote:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/58382600

This user, which on his user page says "I am proud to be in Microsoft Open Maps team." Has been making a lot of "Fixed geometry" changesets.

Now, the motorway he worked on did indeed in part need fixing, as it was in places 10-30m out of position.

But the particular stretch in that changeset I just fixed up myself a few days earlier, using imagery with corrected offsets, and taking into account tagged lane information (because of the placement tag, the "way" that defines the motorway is not always in the absolute centre of all lanes).

I made a changeset comment to which I didn't get a reply, so I send a direct message to the user on 29th April to which I also didn't get a replay.

Cheers,
Thorsten


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ewen Hill <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, 5 May 2018 12:07
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian
> edits
>
> Thanks for the heads up.
>    I have found a large number of canals/ditches added as minor
> roads or tracks in NW Victoria as well as fences as tracks etc. I
> have sent a message however has anyone else noticed other issues in
> the following areas?
>
> <http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/file/t343391/ms.png>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Australia-f5416966.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au



_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

--

Sent from my phone

--

Sent from my phone


_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FW: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

Ewen Hill
Thanks for the update Nemanja and appreciate that we are all learning.

 I am about to send an overpass file so that your team can review of some of
the edits. I have also added a number of comments for Victoria, Australia
where we need to look at what access and road type it should be.

*Examples*
Canal/ditch identified as a road - Way 552004404 - This runs through farm
land without access=*
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/552004404#map=14/-35.6649/143.6549 

Firebreak around a paddock mapped as track within a farm with no access=*
https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=56224269

Roads and tracks through farmland and farmyards with access=* not set.
https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=55871564

One thing farmers hate is people traveling on farm roads and being lost.
Actually two, not closing gates. No make that three, Cattle and sheep
rustlers. Please reduce the access so navigators don't route through farms.

It is really hard to understand the difference between a farm driveway,
track , firebreak, temporary road for logging or fire protection or fence
line from overhead images. Fence lines can often have a bare earth break for
fire protection and often these appear to be tracks or paths and these are
not. Please always reduce access if in doubt.

Perhaps we need to reset a little and to ask for help on some of the
changesets so that not too much needs to change.

Thank you for being so open and I hope we can all improve OSM


Ewen



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Australia-f5416966.html

_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

Ewen Hill
In reply to this post by Jubal Harpster
Hi,
   I tried to email you the Overpass but there was an error  - let me know
when you have it and I will delete this post http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yyB



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Australia-f5416966.html

_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open Mapping team at Microsoft Australian edits

Nemanja Bračko
​Hi again,

I was interested what happened here, and I got deeply involved in this case.
As I said before, we are seriously taking GPS traces in account.

If you look following picture (http://i64.tinypic.com/30t5jq9.png), it clearly indicates that most of the traffic is in the right area (where is red line), and it can indicate that imagery is offsetting. It can also indicate that this particular lane is used most of the time. So in both cases you have to make proper estimation.

The second thing is that this area is completely reconstructed (even that ground-level road which can be proved in Aerial view and GPS traces as well) and it is impossible to know with 100% accuracy which trace is taken before and which one is after the reconstruction.

Personally, I think both edits are good. Especially because offset is marginal, one lane wide. DareDJ aligned road to GPS traces, you aligned to the imagery.

Also, these road links has no traces after reconstruction, so it is really hard to know how much imagery offsets.

As I said before, I will fully take care about this case in Microsoft team. Please note that we are here at your disposal and we are trying to expand coverage and fix as much as possible issues.

Thank you once again for your time,
Nemanja

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Ewen Hill <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
   I tried to email you the Overpass but there was an error  - let me know
when you have it and I will delete this post http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yyB



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Australia-f5416966.html

_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au


_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au