OpenStreetView name change

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OpenStreetView name change

Martijn van Exel-3

Hi all, 

A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 300000 kilometers of coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping, 

Martijn + the OpenStreetView team


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Glenn Plas
Does well-know-bully-company own the word 'view' ?  I don't understand
why you consider yielding on this.  They can ask all they want right ?

Glenn


On 08-11-16 16:34, Martijn van Exel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
> street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
> iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 300000 kilometers of
> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
> press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known
> company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView
> name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
> wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Hans De Kryger
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3

Guessing that company's name rimes with frugal

Regards,
Hans


On Nov 8, 2016 8:35 AM, "Martijn van Exel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all, 

A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 300000 kilometers of coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping, 

Martijn + the OpenStreetView team


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Mike Thompson
Libre Via Picturae  (Open Street View in Latin... as best I can tell using....ahem... Google translate)

Mike


On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:45 AM, Hans De Kryger <[hidden email]> wrote:

Guessing that company's name rimes with frugal

Regards,
Hans


On Nov 8, 2016 8:35 AM, "Martijn van Exel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all, 

A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 300000 kilometers of coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping, 

Martijn + the OpenStreetView team


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Andy Mabbett
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3
On 8 November 2016 at 15:34, Martijn van Exel <[hidden email]> wrote:#

> a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a similarly-named
> product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name.

This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no "Ford
Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing Happy Meal". for
example).

> So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask
> if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

OpenStreets

OpenVista

OpenPanorama

--
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http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Milo van der Linden-5

'Photos for openstreetmap" abbreviated as photosm like with hotosm?


Op 8 nov. 2016 6:08 p.m. schreef "Andy Mabbett" <[hidden email]>:
On 8 November 2016 at 15:34, Martijn van Exel <[hidden email]> wrote:#

> a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a similarly-named
> product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name.

This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no "Ford
Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing Happy Meal". for
example).

> So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask
> if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

OpenStreets

OpenVista

OpenPanorama

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Aun Yngve Johnsen
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3
Since all-evil-you-know-who have lawyers that can sue the ass off everything, let us look at what strictly mean the same but sounds completely different, my idea is FSLI, the Free Street Level Images.




Aun Johnsen


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Glenn Plas
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3
Knock yourselves out by not being able to choose:

http://www.namemesh.com/domain-name-search/open%20street%20photo?show=1

But I still think it's bullshit to claim this as it's clearly a part of
the openstreet-brand if you just put the word 'view' behind it.

I think it's definitely totally unreasonable by Giegle.

Glenn


On 08-11-16 16:34, Martijn van Exel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
> street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
> iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 300000 kilometers of
> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
> press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known
> company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView
> name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
> wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Hakuch
On 08.11.2016 18:34, Glenn Plas wrote:
> I think it's definitely totally unreasonable by Giegle.

To be honest, no one would have chosen "View" if there not has been that
other tool, do you?

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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Hakuch
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett
OpenStreetPic
OpenStreetPics
--> OSP

On 08.11.2016 18:05, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> OpenStreets
>
> OpenVista

guess, another big player will complain then ;)

> OpenPanorama
>


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Toby Murray-2
In reply to this post by Glenn Plas
I'm guessing they are claiming trademark rights on the term "Street
View" which is not entirely unreasonable. (IANAL, etc)

Toby


On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Glenn Plas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does well-know-bully-company own the word 'view' ?  I don't understand
> why you consider yielding on this.  They can ask all they want right ?
>
> Glenn
>
>
> On 08-11-16 16:34, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
>> street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
>> iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 300000 kilometers of
>> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
>> press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known
>> company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView
>> name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
>> wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>>
>> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>>
>> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Glenn Plas
In reply to this post by Hakuch
On 08-11-16 19:16, Hakuch wrote:
> On 08.11.2016 18:34, Glenn Plas wrote:
>> I think it's definitely totally unreasonable by Giegle.
>
> To be honest, no one would have chosen "View" if there not has been that
> other tool, do you?

View is quite a common word. Imagine apple claiming the rights on
anything that starts with I- : I-crap, I-whatever, I-rail, I-eat (there
are thousands of those). They wouldn't exist either without Apple.

They seem to have no problem with OpenStreetMap vs. Google StreetMap
right?  Because they know they would loose this in court.  It's just FUD
tactics.

I've went against Google in 2008 on a map dispute and won , didn't have
to pay 50K per year for 3 years because of it(prob. peanuts for them but
they went after us anyway).   Didn't cost me nothing btw. well worth it.

They thought they could force American rules on a Belgian company, they
might have plenty of lawyers, doesn't really help as only 1 can talk at
the same time and when they are ignorant they loose.

in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
bullying.

So, why not use OpenStreetMapView ? It's just an extra word behind an
existing brand, almost as old as Giggle maps.
.
Glenn


>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Richard Fairhurst
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett
Andy Mabbett wrote:
> This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no
> "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing
> Happy Meal". for example).

Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS Open Map Local.)

FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:

     https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/streetscape

Richard
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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Joseph Reeves

How about just StreetScape?

I think the open- prefix is unnecessary unless OpenStreetView is officially part of the OSM project? We should be expecting all good projects to be open by default, so branding as Open may be unnecessary. In addition, projects should be aiming to compete on features and completeness (as helped by the openness) as opposed to relying on being open as a USP.

Just my 2 pennies worth,

Joseph

On 8 Nov 2016 6:57 pm, "Richard Fairhurst" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no
> > "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing
> > Happy Meal". for example).
>
> Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
> View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS Open Map Local.)
>
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:
>
>      https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/streetscape
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/OpenStreetView-name-change-tp5885558p5885580.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

lsces
In reply to this post by Richard Fairhurst
On 08/11/16 18:54, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:

Get's my vote .... Capital 'S' though OpenStreetScape

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-----------------------------
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Re: OpenStreetView name change

SimonPoole
In reply to this post by Richard Fairhurst
Sigh ....

Trademarks are not patents, there is no concept similar to  prior art
(there is in the US some thing which comes quite close, but that is just
1 (one) country). If you are a trademark owner you need to monitor
applications that are close to your mark and if the examiners don't
throw them out because of them being too similar with existing
registrations, submit an opposition to the resp. IP office.

In any case the complaint by They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named was not only not
unexpected, it was entirely expected.

TeleNav does not have a licence to use OpenStreet-anything from the
OSMF, and as all projects that use a name that plays on OpenStreetMap
the only thing it does is weaken the status of the OpenStreetMap mark,
impacting our position if we ever have to defend seriously against
misuse (you could argue that we, not They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named should
have asked TeleNav to not use the name for the above reasons).

Tacking "Open" on front of anything is very unoriginal and in the
meantime completely meaningless, at best it might imply "slightly less
closed", but even that is not a given.

Simon

Am 08.11.2016 um 19:54 schrieb Richard Fairhurst:

> Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no
>> "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing
>> Happy Meal". for example).
> Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
> View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS Open Map Local.)
>
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:
>
>      https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/streetscape
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/OpenStreetView-name-change-tp5885558p5885580.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


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Re: OpenStreetView name change

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Glenn Plas


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 08 nov 2016, alle ore 19:51, Glenn Plas <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
> that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
> bullying.
>


well, a German telco has successfully claimed ownership of a common color.


What about OpenFreeView ;-)
Photorama
crowd'sView
Omnivision

cheers,
Martin
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Re: OpenStreetView name change

pierzen
LibreView ?
 
 
Pierre



De : Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]>
À : Glenn Plas <[hidden email]>
Cc : [hidden email]
Envoyé le : mardi 8 novembre 2016 15h52
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change



sent from a phone

> Il giorno 08 nov 2016, alle ore 19:51, Glenn Plas <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
> that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
> bullying.
>


well, a German telco has successfully claimed ownership of a common color.


What about OpenFreeView ;-)
Photorama
crowd'sView
Omnivision

cheers,
Martin

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Re: OpenStreetView name change

SimonPoole
In reply to this post by Glenn Plas

Am 08.11.2016 um 19:51 schrieb Glenn Plas:
> ..
> View is quite a common word. Imagine apple claiming the rights on
> anything that starts with I- : I-crap, I-whatever, I-rail, I-eat (there
> are thousands of those). They wouldn't exist either without Apple.
Apple is naturally the text book example that you can use a commonly
used word as a trademark, it just needs to be not descriptive. So it is
completely OK to use Apple as a mark for computers, but not for fruit.

>
> They seem to have no problem with OpenStreetMap vs. Google StreetMap
> right?  Because they know they would loose this in court.  It's just FUD
> tactics.
Google doesn't have a product called "Google StreetMap" that I know of,
the rest is just speculation.

> I've went against Google in 2008 on a map dispute and won , didn't have
> to pay 50K per year for 3 years because of it(prob. peanuts for them but
> they went after us anyway).   Didn't cost me nothing btw. well worth it.
>
> They thought they could force American rules on a Belgian company, they
> might have plenty of lawyers, doesn't really help as only 1 can talk at
> the same time and when they are ignorant they loose.
A reference would be nice to see if it had anything to do with the
incident at hand. But on one hand TeleNav is located in the states and
on the other hand winning something in Belgium is really only relevant
if Belgium is your only market.
 
>
> in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
> that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
> bullying.
As explained above naturally you can, and if you can show that your mark
is well established (see notorious, and similar concepts, trademarks)
you might even get around some of the normal restrictions (a good
example is the OpenStreetMap trademark).
>
> So, why not use OpenStreetMapView ? It's just an extra word behind an
> existing brand, almost as old as Giggle maps.
> .
See my previous mail on that.

Simon



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Re: OpenStreetView name change

Michał Brzozowski
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3

How about StreetOpenView? ;)
Streetscape sounds fine to me, too.


08.11.2016 16:37 "Martijn van Exel" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):

Hi all, 

A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 300000 kilometers of coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping, 

Martijn + the OpenStreetView team


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