Opening hours too long for OSM

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
24 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Opening hours too long for OSM

OSMDoudou
Are you sure?

Google allows to upload special hours via spreadsheet: https://support.google.com/business/answer/6303076?hl=en.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Opening hours too long for OSM

SimonPoole
In reply to this post by Tobias Zwick


Am 13.10.2018 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Zwick:
> It is already part of the specification that "Mo-Fr 9-17" is possible.

Actually it isn't, see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours/specification

I don't think discussing changes to the opening_hours grammar is this
thread is a sensible thing to do, most of the changes proposed are not
unambigously parseable and would require us to rely even more on
heuristics than we do now to make sense of the values. There a small
number of additions that could make sense and make things easier
(seasons and some more variable holidays), but they tend to fit in to
the existing schema.

Simon


> Alas, QA tools / the openinghours evaluation tool emit a warning in this
> case: "Time range without minutes specified. Not very explicit! Please
> use this syntax instead "9:00-17:00"."
> Not sure why that is not seen as explicit.
>
> On 12/10/2018 22:29, bkil wrote:
>> That looks like a nice improvement.
>>
>> Additionally, I've always wondered why we need to enter :00 after
>> every hour and zero pad the hours? The shops themselves usually post
>> the opening hours as 9-17 - why can't we use this human friendly
>> abbreviation? I don't feel that it would be that much harder to parse.
>> (9-17h would also work for me) 9-17:30 and 9:30-17 are still
>> unambiguous (though, the latter looks a bit uglier at first).
>>
>> I think this would greatly improve readability, make data entry faster
>> and less error prone and shorten the field all at the same time.
>>
>> Is this fit for a proposal?
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:04 AM Robin Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 10/11/18 11:47 PM, Jmapb wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2018 5:21 PM, Tobias Zwick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey there!
>>>>>
>>>>> So, a user of StreetComplete came across the following complicated
>>>>> opening hours for a shop (prettified):
>>>>>
>>>>> Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00;
>>>>> Jun-Sep: Su 10:00-12:00;
>>>>> Nov-Mar: Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00, 15:00-17:00;
>>>>> Nov-Mar: Sa 10:00-12:00;
>>>>> Apr-May: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>>> Apr-May: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>>> Apr-May: Su 10:00-12:00;
>>>>> Oct: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>>> Oct: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>>> Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, this does not fit into the opening_hours value, as this
>>>>> is limited to 255 characters. What can we do?
>>> Hey :)
>>>
>>> I would say your best bet is to try to shorten the opening_hours values using
>>> every little trick that the syntax has to offer, for example you can join the
>>> month ranges which is enough to bring you under 255 characters.
>>>
>>> Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00;
>>> Nov-Mar: Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00,15:00-17:00;
>>> Nov-Mar: Sa 10:00-12:00;
>>> Apr-May,Oct: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>> Apr-May,Oct: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>> Apr-May,Jun-Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>
>>> You can then use the "value to compare to the first value:" feature of
>>> https://openingh.ypid.de/evaluation_tool/ to check that you still preserved the
>>> original meaning.
>>>
>>> I don’t have much to add in case you can not bring the value under 255 only that
>>> I also don’t know any software which would handle that. I guess having the
>>> special cases in an additional tag and `opening_hours` fully valid would be best
>>> then.
>>>
>>>     opening_hours=Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00; Su10:00-12:00; Nov-Mar:
>>> Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00, 15:00-17:00; Sa 10:00-12:00; Apr-May: Mo-Fr
>>> 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00; Sa 10:00-12:30; Su 10:00-12:00; Oct: Mo-Fr
>>> 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00; Sa 10:00-12:30;Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>
>>> This won’t work. I had an idea for doing that but this is not supported yet:
>>> https://github.com/opening-hours/opening_hours.js#todo
>>>
>>> --
>>> Live long and prosper
>>> Robin `ypid` Schneider -- https://me.ypid.de/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

signature.asc (499 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Opening hours too long for OSM

Tobias Zwick
Oh, you are right. I am sorry. So that opening hours tool understands
more than what is defined in the specification.

On 13/10/2018 12:35, Simon Poole wrote:

>
>
> Am 13.10.2018 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Zwick:
>> It is already part of the specification that "Mo-Fr 9-17" is possible.
>
> Actually it isn't, see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours/specification
>
> I don't think discussing changes to the opening_hours grammar is this
> thread is a sensible thing to do, most of the changes proposed are not
> unambigously parseable and would require us to rely even more on
> heuristics than we do now to make sense of the values. There a small
> number of additions that could make sense and make things easier
> (seasons and some more variable holidays), but they tend to fit in to
> the existing schema.
>
> Simon
>
>
>> Alas, QA tools / the openinghours evaluation tool emit a warning in this
>> case: "Time range without minutes specified. Not very explicit! Please
>> use this syntax instead "9:00-17:00"."
>> Not sure why that is not seen as explicit.
>>
>> On 12/10/2018 22:29, bkil wrote:
>>> That looks like a nice improvement.
>>>
>>> Additionally, I've always wondered why we need to enter :00 after
>>> every hour and zero pad the hours? The shops themselves usually post
>>> the opening hours as 9-17 - why can't we use this human friendly
>>> abbreviation? I don't feel that it would be that much harder to parse.
>>> (9-17h would also work for me) 9-17:30 and 9:30-17 are still
>>> unambiguous (though, the latter looks a bit uglier at first).
>>>
>>> I think this would greatly improve readability, make data entry faster
>>> and less error prone and shorten the field all at the same time.
>>>
>>> Is this fit for a proposal?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:04 AM Robin Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/18 11:47 PM, Jmapb wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/2018 5:21 PM, Tobias Zwick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey there!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, a user of StreetComplete came across the following complicated
>>>>>> opening hours for a shop (prettified):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00;
>>>>>> Jun-Sep: Su 10:00-12:00;
>>>>>> Nov-Mar: Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00, 15:00-17:00;
>>>>>> Nov-Mar: Sa 10:00-12:00;
>>>>>> Apr-May: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>>>> Apr-May: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>>>> Apr-May: Su 10:00-12:00;
>>>>>> Oct: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>>>> Oct: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>>>> Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, this does not fit into the opening_hours value, as this
>>>>>> is limited to 255 characters. What can we do?
>>>> Hey :)
>>>>
>>>> I would say your best bet is to try to shorten the opening_hours values using
>>>> every little trick that the syntax has to offer, for example you can join the
>>>> month ranges which is enough to bring you under 255 characters.
>>>>
>>>> Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00;
>>>> Nov-Mar: Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00,15:00-17:00;
>>>> Nov-Mar: Sa 10:00-12:00;
>>>> Apr-May,Oct: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>> Apr-May,Oct: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>> Apr-May,Jun-Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>>
>>>> You can then use the "value to compare to the first value:" feature of
>>>> https://openingh.ypid.de/evaluation_tool/ to check that you still preserved the
>>>> original meaning.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t have much to add in case you can not bring the value under 255 only that
>>>> I also don’t know any software which would handle that. I guess having the
>>>> special cases in an additional tag and `opening_hours` fully valid would be best
>>>> then.
>>>>
>>>>     opening_hours=Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00; Su10:00-12:00; Nov-Mar:
>>>> Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00, 15:00-17:00; Sa 10:00-12:00; Apr-May: Mo-Fr
>>>> 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00; Sa 10:00-12:30; Su 10:00-12:00; Oct: Mo-Fr
>>>> 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00; Sa 10:00-12:30;Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>>
>>>> This won’t work. I had an idea for doing that but this is not supported yet:
>>>> https://github.com/opening-hours/opening_hours.js#todo
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Live long and prosper
>>>> Robin `ypid` Schneider -- https://me.ypid.de/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tagging mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Opening hours too long for OSM

SimonPoole


Am 13.10.2018 um 13:36 schrieb Tobias Zwick:
> Oh, you are right. I am sorry. So that opening hours tool understands
> more than what is defined in the specification.

Everybody that has written a OH parser needs to add a non-strict mode in
one way or the other, or else you wouldn't be able to parse a large part
(~15%) of the existing strings that are meaningful.

See for example https://github.com/simonpoole/OpeningHoursParser (note
that a really strict mode would throw out quite a bit more).

Simon

>
> On 13/10/2018 12:35, Simon Poole wrote:
>>
>> Am 13.10.2018 um 00:46 schrieb Tobias Zwick:
>>> It is already part of the specification that "Mo-Fr 9-17" is possible.
>> Actually it isn't, see
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours/specification
>>
>> I don't think discussing changes to the opening_hours grammar is this
>> thread is a sensible thing to do, most of the changes proposed are not
>> unambigously parseable and would require us to rely even more on
>> heuristics than we do now to make sense of the values. There a small
>> number of additions that could make sense and make things easier
>> (seasons and some more variable holidays), but they tend to fit in to
>> the existing schema.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>> Alas, QA tools / the openinghours evaluation tool emit a warning in this
>>> case: "Time range without minutes specified. Not very explicit! Please
>>> use this syntax instead "9:00-17:00"."
>>> Not sure why that is not seen as explicit.
>>>
>>> On 12/10/2018 22:29, bkil wrote:
>>>> That looks like a nice improvement.
>>>>
>>>> Additionally, I've always wondered why we need to enter :00 after
>>>> every hour and zero pad the hours? The shops themselves usually post
>>>> the opening hours as 9-17 - why can't we use this human friendly
>>>> abbreviation? I don't feel that it would be that much harder to parse.
>>>> (9-17h would also work for me) 9-17:30 and 9:30-17 are still
>>>> unambiguous (though, the latter looks a bit uglier at first).
>>>>
>>>> I think this would greatly improve readability, make data entry faster
>>>> and less error prone and shorten the field all at the same time.
>>>>
>>>> Is this fit for a proposal?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 12:04 AM Robin Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/18 11:47 PM, Jmapb wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/11/2018 5:21 PM, Tobias Zwick wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey there!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, a user of StreetComplete came across the following complicated
>>>>>>> opening hours for a shop (prettified):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00;
>>>>>>> Jun-Sep: Su 10:00-12:00;
>>>>>>> Nov-Mar: Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00, 15:00-17:00;
>>>>>>> Nov-Mar: Sa 10:00-12:00;
>>>>>>> Apr-May: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>>>>> Apr-May: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>>>>> Apr-May: Su 10:00-12:00;
>>>>>>> Oct: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>>>>> Oct: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>>>>> Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, this does not fit into the opening_hours value, as this
>>>>>>> is limited to 255 characters. What can we do?
>>>>> Hey :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I would say your best bet is to try to shorten the opening_hours values using
>>>>> every little trick that the syntax has to offer, for example you can join the
>>>>> month ranges which is enough to bring you under 255 characters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00;
>>>>> Nov-Mar: Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00,15:00-17:00;
>>>>> Nov-Mar: Sa 10:00-12:00;
>>>>> Apr-May,Oct: Mo-Fr 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00;
>>>>> Apr-May,Oct: Sa 10:00-12:30;
>>>>> Apr-May,Jun-Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>>>
>>>>> You can then use the "value to compare to the first value:" feature of
>>>>> https://openingh.ypid.de/evaluation_tool/ to check that you still preserved the
>>>>> original meaning.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t have much to add in case you can not bring the value under 255 only that
>>>>> I also don’t know any software which would handle that. I guess having the
>>>>> special cases in an additional tag and `opening_hours` fully valid would be best
>>>>> then.
>>>>>
>>>>>     opening_hours=Jun-Sep: Mo-Sa 10:00-18:00; Su10:00-12:00; Nov-Mar:
>>>>> Mo,Tu,Th,Fr 10:00-12:00, 15:00-17:00; Sa 10:00-12:00; Apr-May: Mo-Fr
>>>>> 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00; Sa 10:00-12:30; Su 10:00-12:00; Oct: Mo-Fr
>>>>> 10:00-12:30,15:00-18:00; Sa 10:00-12:30;Oct: Su 10:00-12:00
>>>>>
>>>>> This won’t work. I had an idea for doing that but this is not supported yet:
>>>>> https://github.com/opening-hours/opening_hours.js#todo
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Live long and prosper
>>>>> Robin `ypid` Schneider -- https://me.ypid.de/
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tagging mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tagging mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

signature.asc (499 bytes) Download Attachment
12