Phone numbers

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Phone numbers

Warin
Hi,


On the tagging list it has come up that 'we' should be using
international dialling codes for the phone numbers.


I'm not certain how many OZ mappers would be aware of these ..

and I think this should be documented on the wiki page
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines


Test

How many would know how to call a cell phone number from overseas?


Answer

Drop the leading 0 and prefix with +61

+61 4 xx xxx xxx


Same thing for 'our' local codes 02 becomes +61 2 xxxx xxxx.


I know my phone number additions are all local - no ISD or even regional
codes.


Thoughts?





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Re: Phone numbers

Andrew Harvey-3
All the numbers I've added include the +61 and drop off the leading zero from the area code or mobile. This makes the number work from wherever it is dialed and makes it universally unique.

So +1 to this format when tagging in OSM and noting this in the Australian Guidelines wiki. 

On 6 Sep 2017 2:37 PM, "Warin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,


On the tagging list it has come up that 'we' should be using international dialling codes for the phone numbers.


I'm not certain how many OZ mappers would be aware of these ..

and I think this should be documented on the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines


Test

How many would know how to call a cell phone number from overseas?


Answer

Drop the leading 0 and prefix with +61

+61 4 xx xxx xxx


Same thing for 'our' local codes 02 becomes +61 2 xxxx xxxx.


I know my phone number additions are all local - no ISD or even regional codes.


Thoughts?





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Re: Phone numbers

Warin
I've had a small look at what is presently in the data base.
There are a lot of phone numbers in there!
I got a time out when I tried all of NSW, and reduced it down to Sydney and only nodes (no ways or relationships).
Some 637. I had not expected so many!
A small look and about half have +61 - leaving a rather large quantity in 'error'.
There will be a way of not downloading any with the leading prefix of +61.
It would be a small matter to write a script that would add the correct prefix to these, being careful of the respective area codes. 
(spotted one with 61 - no leading +, there will be some with the area code 02 and the quantity of numbers would need to be tested to avoid obvious errors/software confusion)

On 06-Sep-17 02:45 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote:
All the numbers I've added include the +61 and drop off the leading zero from the area code or mobile. This makes the number work from wherever it is dialed and makes it universally unique.

So +1 to this format when tagging in OSM and noting this in the Australian Guidelines wiki. 

On 6 Sep 2017 2:37 PM, "Warin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,


On the tagging list it has come up that 'we' should be using international dialling codes for the phone numbers.


I'm not certain how many OZ mappers would be aware of these ..

and I think this should be documented on the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines


Test

How many would know how to call a cell phone number from overseas?


Answer

Drop the leading 0 and prefix with +61

+61 4 xx xxx xxx


Same thing for 'our' local codes 02 becomes +61 2 xxxx xxxx.


I know my phone number additions are all local - no ISD or even regional codes.


Thoughts?





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Re: Phone numbers

Phil Wyatt

There is certainly a mixed bag in Tasmania (only checked nodes)

 

+61 (0)3 6220 7100

+61 03 6239 3095

+61 3 6109 4621

(03) 6424 6762

+61363313968

64282013

132050

1800 770 224

 

I think this is the correct format is it not?

 

+61 3 6109 4621

 

What is the go with 1300, 000, 1800 numbers?

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Warin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 8:42 PM
To: Andrew Harvey
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Phone numbers

 

I've had a small look at what is presently in the data base.
There are a lot of phone numbers in there!
I got a time out when I tried all of NSW, and reduced it down to Sydney and only nodes (no ways or relationships).
Some 637. I had not expected so many!
A small look and about half have +61 - leaving a rather large quantity in 'error'.
There will be a way of not downloading any with the leading prefix of +61.
It would be a small matter to write a script that would add the correct prefix to these, being careful of the respective area codes. 
(spotted one with 61 - no leading +, there will be some with the area code 02 and the quantity of numbers would need to be tested to avoid obvious errors/software confusion)

On 06-Sep-17 02:45 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote:

All the numbers I've added include the +61 and drop off the leading zero from the area code or mobile. This makes the number work from wherever it is dialed and makes it universally unique.

 

So +1 to this format when tagging in OSM and noting this in the Australian Guidelines wiki. 

 

On 6 Sep 2017 2:37 PM, "Warin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,


On the tagging list it has come up that 'we' should be using international dialling codes for the phone numbers.


I'm not certain how many OZ mappers would be aware of these ..

and I think this should be documented on the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines


Test

How many would know how to call a cell phone number from overseas?


Answer

Drop the leading 0 and prefix with +61

+61 4 xx xxx xxx


Same thing for 'our' local codes 02 becomes +61 2 xxxx xxxx.


I know my phone number additions are all local - no ISD or even regional codes.


Thoughts?





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Phone numbers

Nevw
In reply to this post by Warin
Mapper @tastrax appears to be using a maproulette challenge to fix these, presumably in Tasmania. I am not familiar with the program myself.

Nev

On 6 Sep 2017, at 8:41 pm, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've had a small look at what is presently in the data base.
There are a lot of phone numbers in there!
I got a time out when I tried all of NSW, and reduced it down to Sydney and only nodes (no ways or relationships).
Some 637. I had not expected so many!
A small look and about half have +61 - leaving a rather large quantity in 'error'.
There will be a way of not downloading any with the leading prefix of +61.
It would be a small matter to write a script that would add the correct prefix to these, being careful of the respective area codes. 
(spotted one with 61 - no leading +, there will be some with the area code 02 and the quantity of numbers would need to be tested to avoid obvious errors/software confusion)

On 06-Sep-17 02:45 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote:
All the numbers I've added include the +61 and drop off the leading zero from the area code or mobile. This makes the number work from wherever it is dialed and makes it universally unique.

So +1 to this format when tagging in OSM and noting this in the Australian Guidelines wiki. 

On 6 Sep 2017 2:37 PM, "Warin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,


On the tagging list it has come up that 'we' should be using international dialling codes for the phone numbers.


I'm not certain how many OZ mappers would be aware of these ..

and I think this should be documented on the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines


Test

How many would know how to call a cell phone number from overseas?


Answer

Drop the leading 0 and prefix with +61

+61 4 xx xxx xxx


Same thing for 'our' local codes 02 becomes +61 2 xxxx xxxx.


I know my phone number additions are all local - no ISD or even regional codes.


Thoughts?





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Re: Phone numbers

Warin
In reply to this post by Phil Wyatt
On 06-Sep-17 09:07 PM, Phil (The Geek) Wyatt wrote:

 

What is the go with 1300, 000, 1800 numbers?

 


1300, 1800 numbers are national only - no ISD access. Some of these have a 'local' number for ISD access.

I would assume these are not OSM compatible at this time?


000 .. you mean the emergency number?

For cell phones that is 112 internationally .. though in some nations the emergency services don't share the same number so you might get the Police.



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Re: Phone numbers

Alex Sims
In reply to this post by Phil Wyatt

On 6/9/17 8:37 pm, Phil (The Geek) Wyatt wrote:

I think this is the correct format is it not?

 

+61 3 6109 4621

The format is certainly in line with ITU recommendation E.123 and the Openstreetmap Wiki https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phone#Usage

So yes correct format.

Alex



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Re: Phone numbers

Phil Wyatt
In reply to this post by Warin

Thanks Warin,

 

So what happens when you find a 1300, 1800 or 000 (found that on a fire station!) - leave them or delete them?

 

Can anyone guide me on extracting the data and then merging it back in after correction? I am happy to have a go at Tasmania that only has 149 phone numbers in total! Found that via Overpass Turbo.

 

Phil (aka tastrax....who did a few corrections in map roulette before realising there was probably 1,000's!)

 

From: Warin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 9:27 PM
To: Phil (The Geek) Wyatt; 'Andrew Harvey'
Cc: 'OSM Australian Talk List'
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Phone numbers

 

On 06-Sep-17 09:07 PM, Phil (The Geek) Wyatt wrote:

 

What is the go with 1300, 000, 1800 numbers?

 

 

1300, 1800 numbers are national only - no ISD access. Some of these have a 'local' number for ISD access.

I would assume these are not OSM compatible at this time?


000 .. you mean the emergency number?

For cell phones that is 112 internationally .. though in some nations the emergency services don't share the same number so you might get the Police.

 


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Re: Phone numbers

Phil Wyatt

I got stuck in and cleaned up Tassie - hopefully all correct. I used Overpass API (phone=*) in JOSM and manually checked them all (about 150).

 

Interestingly, in some areas they were perfect and probably done by one person, in other areas lots of different formats. Hopefully folks will now see the correct way to add a phone number.

 

I would still love to know how to get data out to edit in a spreadsheet and then import back in if anyone has some clues. I am aware of the pitfalls and requirements for bigger imports.

 

Cheers - Phil

 

 

From: Phil (The Geek) Wyatt [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 10:06 PM
To: 'Warin'; 'Andrew Harvey'
Cc: 'OSM Australian Talk List'
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Phone numbers

 

Thanks Warin,

 

So what happens when you find a 1300, 1800 or 000 (found that on a fire station!) - leave them or delete them?

 

Can anyone guide me on extracting the data and then merging it back in after correction? I am happy to have a go at Tasmania that only has 149 phone numbers in total! Found that via Overpass Turbo.

 

Phil (aka tastrax....who did a few corrections in map roulette before realising there was probably 1,000's!)

 

From: Warin [[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 9:27 PM
To: Phil (The Geek) Wyatt; 'Andrew Harvey'
Cc: 'OSM Australian Talk List'
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Phone numbers

 

On 06-Sep-17 09:07 PM, Phil (The Geek) Wyatt wrote:

 

What is the go with 1300, 000, 1800 numbers?

 

 

1300, 1800 numbers are national only - no ISD access. Some of these have a 'local' number for ISD access.

I would assume these are not OSM compatible at this time?


000 .. you mean the emergency number?

For cell phones that is 112 internationally .. though in some nations the emergency services don't share the same number so you might get the Police.

 


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Re: Phone numbers

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Warin

On 6 September 2017 at 20:41, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've had a small look at what is presently in the data base.

How did you search for them, thanks Warin?

I'll happily have a go at my local area - Gold Coast, 'cause I'm responsible for putting a swag of them in wrong!

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Phone numbers

Warin
On 07-Sep-17 07:23 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

On 6 September 2017 at 20:41, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've had a small look at what is presently in the data base.

How did you search for them, thanks Warin?

Still experimenting
Using JOSM Overpasstubo API build query
enter the following text
   phone=* and phone!="^.61 8 "

That should get
phone=*  .. gets all the phone numbered features
phone!="^.61 8 " removes all the phone numbers that start with 'x61 8 ' where x is any character. I have not come up wit a way to search for '+' as that is a registered character.

My first search was simply - used phone=* and that gets a lot of good ones. You will need to change the 8 charter to match your state.
There is also a way of selecting an admin area if your near a boarder .. something like 'is in Queensland' ?


I'll happily have a go at my local area - Gold Coast, 'cause I'm responsible for putting a swag of them in wrong!

Thanks

Graeme


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Re: Phone numbers

Simon Slater
On Thursday, 7 September 2017 7:57:26 AM AEST Warin wrote:
> I have not come up wit a way to search for '+'
> as that is a registered character.

Can you escape with a \ ? ie phone!="^\+61 8 "

--
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Simon Slater

Registered Linux User #463789 @ http://linuxcounter.net

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Re: Phone numbers

Andrew Davidson-3
In reply to this post by Phil Wyatt
TL;DR summary:

I'm happy to use E.123 international format for phone numbers or local
format if they are not able to be called from overseas.


On 6/9/17 21:07, Phil (The Geek) Wyatt wrote:
 > I think this is the correct format is it not?
 >
 >
 >
 > +61 3 6109 4621

It depends. Like most things it gets complicated and boring very
quickly. So strap yourself in... If you look at the wiki entry:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phone

phone numbers can be in E.164, E.123, DIN5008, RFC3966, or NANP "format".

Turns out that E.164 and NANP are not formats rather they are standards
for numbering plans. E.164 is for allocating international numbers and
NANP for allocating numbers in North America.

RFC3966 is a standard for creating URIs of telephone numbers so they end
up in the form tel:+1-201-555-0123 (and I doubt anyone has used this in
OSM).

E.123 and DIN5008 (part of) define formats for writing down phone
numbers. They both have a international and national format but the wiki
doesn't say which one to use.


> There is certainly a mixed bag in Tasmania (only checked nodes)
>
>  
>
> +61 (0)3 6220 7100

So this one is not OK (it's a way that some Germans and Austrians write
international numbers but is not in E.123 or DIN5008)

>
> +61 03 6239 3095

Not OK (extra zero in front of 3)

>
> +61 3 6109 4621
>

OK (matches E.123 and DIN5008 international formats)

> (03) 6424 6762
>

OK (E.123 national format)

> +61363313968
>

OK (E.123 international doesn't need spaces. Not sure about DIN5008)

> 64282013
>

Not OK. E.164 number not in either national or international format

> 132050
>
> 1800 770 224
>

OK. These are not E.164 numbers (ie: can't call from overseas) but are
in E.123 and DIN5008 local format.

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Re: Phone numbers

Simon Slater
In reply to this post by Warin
On Wednesday, 6 September 2017 9:26:41 PM AEST Warin wrote:
> 1300, 1800 numbers are national only - no ISD access. Some of these have
> a 'local' number for ISD access.
>
> I would assume these are not OSM compatible at this time?

From: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/
Key:phone#Support_for_multiple_countries

Also some amenities have a local phone number which can only be used
domestically not cannot be called internationally (notably for toll free phone
numbers, or abbreviated phone numbers). For international calls, they publish
another phone number. For example:
phone:FR=0 800 123 456 for standard toll free call only from France where the
amenity is (note that there's NO "+" sign, it is NOT in international format),
...

so they could be included.
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Simon Slater

Registered Linux User #463789 @ http://linuxcounter.net

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