Photo links in OSM

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Photo links in OSM

brycenesbitt
I'm interested in revisiting the issue of attaching links to photographs in OSM via tag.

There's an ancient stale proposal at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Image
But no hint of why the proposal was abandoned, or any of the points of debate.
There seems to be little "push" demand based for photos on taginfo:

---------
photo=(5)
image:flickr=(3)
flickr=(18)
image=(332)
wikipedia:image=(12)
wetap:photo=(108)
source:image=Yahoo (200) (useless)
FG:photo=(529) (useless)

Open Street View and its mailing list kind of kick around: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.photos
---------

I contributed the 108 "wetap:photo" nodes. roughly 25% of the total images links in OSM.  You can view these as pink dots at http://www.wetap.org ).

The downside issues seem similar to the website= tag, in that it could attract spam or inappropriate links.
The upside is that it can make for richer mapping.  As URL links there is no server storage cost to the OSM project.
Where do photo links stand?

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Re: Photo links in OSM

René Kirchhoff
Hello,

see TagInfo:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=image

There are not 322. There are 12 162...

photo = 321
image:flickr = 3
flickr = 57
image = 12162
wikipedia:image = 24
wetap:photo = 108
source:image=Yahoo 1701
FG:photo = 533

I only use image. For an image URL or the name of an image on Wikimedia Commons (example "File:Dresden collage.jpg").

More Informations see in Wiki in German:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historische_Objekte#Bildvorschau

See a OSM-Map with Images for Historical Objects:
http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=17&lat=52.51631&lon=13.37772&layers=B0000FTT&select=w104393803

By René

2013/6/11 Bryce Nesbitt <[hidden email]>
I'm interested in revisiting the issue of attaching links to photographs in OSM via tag.

There's an ancient stale proposal at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Image
But no hint of why the proposal was abandoned, or any of the points of debate.
There seems to be little "push" demand based for photos on taginfo:

---------
photo=(5)
image:flickr=(3)
flickr=(18)
image=(332)
wikipedia:image=(12)
wetap:photo=(108)
source:image=Yahoo (200) (useless)
FG:photo=(529) (useless)

Open Street View and its mailing list kind of kick around: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.photos
---------

I contributed the 108 "wetap:photo" nodes. roughly 25% of the total images links in OSM.  You can view these as pink dots at http://www.wetap.org ).

The downside issues seem similar to the website= tag, in that it could attract spam or inappropriate links.
The upside is that it can make for richer mapping.  As URL links there is no server storage cost to the OSM project.
Where do photo links stand?

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Re: Photo links in OSM

Ab_fab
In reply to this post by brycenesbitt
FYI : You may also have a look at the OsmFlickr service


2013/6/11 Bryce Nesbitt <[hidden email]>
I'm interested in revisiting the issue of attaching links to photographs in OSM via tag.

There's an ancient stale proposal at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Image
But no hint of why the proposal was abandoned, or any of the points of debate.
There seems to be little "push" demand based for photos on taginfo:

---------
photo=(5)
image:flickr=(3)
flickr=(18)
image=(332)
wikipedia:image=(12)
wetap:photo=(108)
source:image=Yahoo (200) (useless)
FG:photo=(529) (useless)

Open Street View and its mailing list kind of kick around: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.photos
---------

I contributed the 108 "wetap:photo" nodes. roughly 25% of the total images links in OSM.  You can view these as pink dots at http://www.wetap.org ).

The downside issues seem similar to the website= tag, in that it could attract spam or inappropriate links.
The upside is that it can make for richer mapping.  As URL links there is no server storage cost to the OSM project.
Where do photo links stand?

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"Il n'y a pas de pas perdus", Nadja

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Re: Photo links in OSM

brycenesbitt
In reply to this post by René Kirchhoff


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:50 AM, René Kirchhoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

see TagInfo:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=image

There are not 322. There are 12 162...

Ah, so there are.
If I adpot and re-open for vote
Is there anything I should be considering?

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Re: Photo links in OSM

René Kirchhoff
see http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=18&lat=51.05419&lon=13.73556&layers=B0000FTT&select=n248573020

This is OSM-Node:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/248573020

Here is image=File:Dresden Theaterplatz 138.JPG

This is for the image:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dresden_Theaterplatz_138.JPG

Can you recognize and understand the context? :D

By René


2013/6/11 Bryce Nesbitt <[hidden email]>

Is there anything I should be considering?



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Re: Photo links in OSM

Richard Welty-2
In reply to this post by brycenesbitt
On 6/11/13 4:01 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:50 AM, René Kirchhoff <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> see TagInfo:
>> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=image
>>
>> There are not 322. There are 12 162...
>>
> Ah, so there are.
> If I adpot and re-open for vote
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Image
> Is there anything I should be considering?
>
i'm not sure that flickr links to jpgs are particularly stable, you may
want to consider that in your documentation of a flickr link. flickr links
these days look like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/8596790653/

and while you can dig up a direct link to a jpg, it looks like this:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8596790653_06bb215baf_k_d.jpg

and i'm just not persuaded that flickr will honor this as a permanent
link.

richard


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Re: Photo links in OSM

Mike N.
On 6/11/2013 4:18 PM, Richard Welty wrote:

> i'm not sure that flickr links to jpgs are particularly stable, you may
> want to consider that in your documentation of a flickr link. flickr links
> these days look like this:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/8596790653/
>
> and while you can dig up a direct link to a jpg, it looks like this:
>
> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8596790653_06bb215baf_k_d.jpg
>
> and i'm just not persuaded that flickr will honor this as a permanent
> link.


I can find the direct link by:

   More Ways To share / HTML/BBCode, then extract the image link:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8596790653_4a803cf407.jpg

   Flickr's official terms of service try to discourage direct links to
images.  So they might break them in the future.


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Re: Photo links in OSM

René Kirchhoff
In reply to this post by Richard Welty-2
Hello,

we also use flickr:

http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=18&lon=7.21383&lat=50.6656&layers=B0000FTT&select=n259103401

This is Node: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/259103401

Here is in image=http://www.flickr.com/photos/osmwolf/8624644661/

And we view on the Map the image-size "s"
see:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/osmwolf/8624644661/sizes/s/
from:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/osmwolf/8624644661/sizes/l/

Gruß René

2013/6/11 Richard Welty <[hidden email]>

i'm not sure that flickr links to jpgs are particularly stable, you may
want to consider that in your documentation of a flickr link. flickr links
these days look like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/8596790653/

and while you can dig up a direct link to a jpg, it looks like this:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8596790653_06bb215baf_k_d.jpg

and i'm just not persuaded that flickr will honor this as a permanent
link.

richard
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Re: Photo links in OSM

René Kirchhoff
More informations in German about image=*

http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Historische_Objekte#Bildvorschau

see Chapter:

Wikimedia-Commons-Bild-URL

and

flickr-Bild-URL

Gruß René

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Re: Photo links in OSM

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by René Kirchhoff



2013/6/11 René Kirchhoff <[hidden email]>
This is OSM-Node:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/248573020

Here is image=File:Dresden Theaterplatz 138.JPG



wouldn't it be better to have all values tagged according to the same rules, i.e. use a fully qualified url for the image tag?

cheers,
Martin

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Re: Photo links in OSM

Richard Welty-2
In reply to this post by Mike N.

>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/8596790653/
>>
>> and while you can dig up a direct link to a jpg, it looks like this:
>>
>> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8596790653_06bb215baf_k_d.jpg
>>
>> and i'm just not persuaded that flickr will honor this as a permanent
>> link.
>
>
> I can find the direct link by:
>
>   More Ways To share / HTML/BBCode, then extract the image link:
>
> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8596790653_4a803cf407.jpg
>
>   Flickr's official terms of service try to discourage direct links to
> images.  So they might break them in the future.
right. there's extra stuff in that link, it looks like the extra stuff
is different
each time. there is absolutely no reason to believe that it's stable or
permanent.

the image link scheme, if it is to include flickr, cannot assume that
the URL
is a direct image link.

richard


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Re: Photo links in OSM

Richard Welty-2
In reply to this post by René Kirchhoff
On 6/11/13 4:38 PM, René Kirchhoff wrote:
> Hello,
>
> we also use flickr:
>
> http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=18&lon=7.21383&lat=50.6656&layers=B0000FTT&select=n259103401
and that's fine. i was specifically commenting on the proposal that might
be revived, and it clearly shows flickr links as ending in jpg
i was just trying to be helpful in a response to a specific question
about things
in the revived proposal that need to be fixed.

richard


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Re: Photo links in OSM

Tac Tacelosky
In reply to this post by brycenesbitt
Thanks for bringing up this topic, it's also something I'd like to revive.

In particular, when a new amenity is being added from one of our
panoramic photos from customstreetview.com, I'd like to provide a
reference back to that.  For example, here's a fitness center from an
area that has very little OSM data:

http://www.customstreetview.com/130427154457?heading=132.08&pitch=-3.96&zoom=2.00

There are several unmapped businesses along this street in what is to
me an iconic "small town" that I pass through regularly on my way to
my mom's house.   I'd love to see these photos used to populate more
of the map.  The UI we have for doing that now still needs some work,
but I'm pretty excited about the "Notes" feature, and may implement
that next.   That way, local mappers could still actually add the
nodes, but remote mappers can do some of the work of identifying
businesses in the photo and their rough locations.

Tac Tacelosky


On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Bryce Nesbitt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm interested in revisiting the issue of attaching links to photographs in
> OSM via tag.
>
> There's an ancient stale proposal at:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Image
> But no hint of why the proposal was abandoned, or any of the points of
> debate.
> There seems to be little "push" demand based for photos on taginfo:
>
> ---------
> photo=(5)
> image:flickr=(3)
> flickr=(18)
> image=(332)
> wikipedia:image=(12)
> wetap:photo=(108)
> source:image=Yahoo (200) (useless)
> FG:photo=(529) (useless)
>
> Open Street View and its mailing list kind of kick around:
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.photos
> ---------
>
> I contributed the 108 "wetap:photo" nodes. roughly 25% of the total images
> links in OSM.  You can view these as pink dots at http://www.wetap.org ).
>
> The downside issues seem similar to the website= tag, in that it could
> attract spam or inappropriate links.
> The upside is that it can make for richer mapping.  As URL links there is no
> server storage cost to the OSM project.
> Where do photo links stand?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

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Re: Photo links in OSM

Zecke
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
Am 11.06.2013 23:19, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:

Here is image=File:Dresden Theaterplatz 138.JPG



wouldn't it be better to have all values tagged according to the same rules, i.e. use a fully qualified url for the image tag?

I fully agree. There's actually no need for distinction of image origin in the tagging scheme. Any distinction (as is done with the historical map) could by done by easily filtering the URL parts. (With the historical map, only some origins like wikimedia and flickr are used to create thumbnails - for copyright reasons).

Something I still miss in the image discussion (especially int the context of the historical map) is a possibility to distinguish between an actual image (present time) and an image of former times. Of course, a lifecycle relation would solve this problem but we all know it is not yet widely adopted, alas.

So I suggest something like:

image=<url>                            image with no timestamp
image:present=<url>             recent image (ok, that's also rather fuzzy but should be sufficient as it will be used only when another older image be given, too)
image:ancient=<url>              ancient image of the object
image:<date>=<url>              dated image, where date format undergoes the rules described e.g. here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:start_date
                                                  (only such date formats without blanks should be used - maybe we need a rework of the date format rules)

Regards,
Zecke

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Re: Photo links in OSM

jaakkoh
I was actually about to post a comment myself that more than one image _might_ be justified in some casaes -- but having images from different time is probably not a good idea.

Especially:
"image:<date>=<url>"
would seem not suitable for OSM. Or what would be the limit for # of photo links? 5, 10, 50, 100, ?

Some other service/db than OSM would probably be a better fit for past/historic photos. .. The OpenHistoricalMap.org?

Cheers,
-Jaakko
(Who's taken perhaps 5000 street view survey photos only since last year when started using OSMTracker and looking fwd to get those linked w different OSM objects.)

Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel
--
Mobile: +509-37-26 91 54, Skype/GoogleTalk: jhelleranta

-----Original Message-----
From: Zecke <[hidden email]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:38:06
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools<[hidden email]>
Reply-To: "Tag discussion,
 strategy and related tools" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Photo links in OSM

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Re: Photo links in OSM

Richard Welty-2
On 6/12/13 8:24 AM, Jaakko Helleranta.com wrote:
> I was actually about to post a comment myself that more than one image _might_ be justified in some casaes -- but having images from different time is probably not a good idea.
>
> Especially:
> "image:<date>=<url>"
> would seem not suitable for OSM. Or what would be the limit for # of photo links? 5, 10, 50, 100, ?
>
> Some other service/db than OSM would probably be a better fit for past/historic photos. .. The OpenHistoricalMap.org?
+1

richard


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Re: Photo links in OSM

Richard Welty-2
In reply to this post by Zecke
On 6/12/13 3:38 AM, Zecke wrote:
>
> image:<date>=<url>              dated image, where date format
> undergoes the rules described e.g. here:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:start_date
>                                                   (only such date
> formats without blanks should be used - maybe we need a rework of the
> date format rules)
i'm not at all enthusiastic about having a variable value like that
as a key

richard


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Re: Photo links in OSM

Zecke
Am 12.06.2013 14:36, schrieb Richard Welty:
> i'm not at all enthusiastic about having a variable value like that
> as a key
Well, I understand your concern. I would much prefer a lifecycle
relation or even a data model supporting key-value lists as a valid value.

I also see much resistance to historic data in OSM (not only here, also
in forum discussions - it's not at all my opinion). What I do not
understand is, why is 3D widely accepted? It even relies on a wiki page,
referred to as "4D"!!!
( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSM-4D ). So, historic data
should have the same acceptance as 3D objects.

As far as I see, image:present and image:ancient do not induce the same
opposition as image:date? I could live with that.

Kind regards,
Zecke


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Re: Photo links in OSM

Richard Welty-2
On 6/12/13 9:28 AM, Zecke wrote:

> Am 12.06.2013 14:36, schrieb Richard Welty:
>> i'm not at all enthusiastic about having a variable value like that
>> as a key
> Well, I understand your concern. I would much prefer a lifecycle
> relation or even a data model supporting key-value lists as a valid
> value.
>
> I also see much resistance to historic data in OSM (not only here,
> also in forum discussions - it's not at all my opinion). What I do not
> understand is, why is 3D widely accepted? It even relies on a wiki
> page, referred to as "4D"!!!
> ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSM-4D ). So, historic data
> should have the same acceptance as 3D objects.
>
> As far as I see, image:present and image:ancient do not induce the
> same opposition as image:date? I could live with that.
>
i think we should be looking to OHM as a repository for historic data.

richard



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Re: Photo links in OSM

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Zecke




On 12/giu/2013, at 15:28, Zecke <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> i'm not at all enthusiastic about having a variable value like that
>> as a key
> Well, I understand your concern. I would much prefer a lifecycle relation or even a data model supporting key-value lists as a valid value.
>
> I also see much resistance to historic data in OSM (not only here, also in forum discussions - it's not at all my opinion). What I do not understand is, why is 3D widely accepted? It even relies on a wiki page, referred to as "4D"!!!
> ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSM-4D ). So, historic data should have the same acceptance as 3D objects.


actually an image/photo is not data in the form we can use in osm other than displaying it to users, it is not machine readable in a way you could automatically extract the contained information about the depicted objects. 3D data (or 4D if you include the temporal aspect) is quite different to that, as it is basically the same data that we already collect, integrating the z-axis (and/or the past state of the world).

cheers,
Martin


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