Postcodes

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Postcodes

Great Britain mailing list

I've been using Robert Whittaker's resources to try to correct postcode errors in OSM. After discussion with another mapper, I'd like to have the opinion of the community as to what we should put in OSM. A simple answer might be to show the correct, current postcode (i.e. if the Postcode Address File became open-source we'd import that). However there are a couple of things to think about:

As mappers we use the information that is on the ground. For postcodes that could mean till receipts, company websites, FHRS or edubase data. What if these do not show the current correct postcode and there is no open source which shows the correct one? Is an incorrect postcode better than none? What if one of those sources (say FHRS) shows the correct postcode but more obvious sources (e.g. the company website) shows an old postcode? I can use the correct postcode but it is likely to be changed back to a wrong one by a mapper who has only found the obvious source.

I've noticed that many bank branches have a unique postcode while the shops either side of them all share a single postcode. When the bank branch closes (as so many do these days) the unique postcode finds its way on to Robert's old postal district list. A new occupant of the bank premises is likely to be given the same postcode as the other shops nearby. Do we need to retain the old postcode for any historical purpose? If so we probably also need to tag that this building was once a bank but if we do that for every previous occupant of every shop things would soon get out of hand!  While the bank is empty and, hence, no longer listed on the PAF, is it better to retain the old postcode or delete it and show no postcode for that building?

I want to improve the map but don't want to delete or overwrite anything which may be of some value. Thoughts please!


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Re: Postcodes

Great Britain mailing list
The post wasn't intended to be anonymous. Apologies
Jack



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Re: Postcodes

Gregrs
In reply to this post by Great Britain mailing list
Hi Jack,

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 05:30:41PM +0000, Jack FitzSimons via Talk-GB wrote:

>What if one of those sources (say FHRS) shows the correct postcode but
>more obvious sources (e.g. the company website) shows an old postcode?
>I can use the correct postcode but it is likely to be changed back to a
>wrong one by a mapper who has only found the obvious source.

I don't have answers to all your questions but it might be worth
mentioning that the not:addr:postcode tag can be useful to record
incorrect postcodes. I usually pair this with the note tag to explain my
choice of correct postcode.

The FHRS/OSM comparison tool at
https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/ makes use of this tag so that
FHRS establishments can still be successfully matched with OSM entities
even when the FHRS postcode is incorrect, which does happen on occasion.

Thanks,
Greg

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Re: Postcodes

Mark Goodge
In reply to this post by Great Britain mailing list


On 25/01/2019 17:30, Jack FitzSimons via Talk-GB wrote:

>
> I've noticed that many bank branches have a unique postcode while the
> shops either side of them all share a single postcode. When the bank
> branch closes (as so many do these days) the unique postcode finds its
> way on to Robert's old postal district list. A new occupant of the bank
> premises is likely to be given the same postcode as the other shops
> nearby. Do we need to retain the old postcode for any historical
> purpose? If so we probably also need to tag that this building was once
> a bank but if we do that for every previous occupant of every shop
> things would soon get out of hand!  While the bank is empty and, hence,
> no longer listed on the PAF, is it better to retain the old postcode or
> delete it and show no postcode for that building?

Those would be "large user" postcodes, assigned to recipients that get a
lot of mail. A large user postcode is assigned to the organisation, not
the premises, so if the organisation leaves the premises then the
postcode either moves with them or becomes unassigned. So the correct
thing to do, in your scenario, would be to either blank out the postcode
or, by interpolation, change it to be the same as those either side.

I'm not sure if CodePoint Open includes a field showing whether a
postcode is large user or not, but the ONS Postcode Database (which is
also OGL, so compatible with OSM) does. So you can check against that if
necessary. Another advantage of ONSPD over Codepoint Open is that it
includes deleted postcodes (with a deletion date), which is handy for
cross-referencing your other scenario of postcodes that have changed but
where an old one is still displayed on company literature.

Mark

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Mapping Driving Test Centres

Silent Spike
Searching the wiki I can't find anything that feels right for mapping driving test centres.

If anyone has mapped these in the past I'd be curious to know how you tagged them (both practical and theory test centres).

Also curious as to how they've been named (if at all) as the DVSA just refers to them by where they are located.

Cheers

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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

TonyS

Hi

Had same problem earlier. I gave a node (5490954973) within the building=office outline

office=government

name=Chorley Driving Test Centre

Regards

TonyS999

On 25/01/2019 22:06, Silent Spike wrote:
Searching the wiki I can't find anything that feels right for mapping driving test centres.

If anyone has mapped these in the past I'd be curious to know how you tagged them (both practical and theory test centres).

Also curious as to how they've been named (if at all) as the DVSA just refers to them by where they are located.

Cheers

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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

Silent Spike
Thanks Tony, as the only reply here so far I've followed your approach.

Could be valuable in future to develop a tagging scheme for these centres as they each do testing for different types of license, etc.

Cheers

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 9:47 AM Tony Shield <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

Had same problem earlier. I gave a node (5490954973) within the building=office outline

office=government

name=Chorley Driving Test Centre

Regards

TonyS999

On 25/01/2019 22:06, Silent Spike wrote:
Searching the wiki I can't find anything that feels right for mapping driving test centres.

If anyone has mapped these in the past I'd be curious to know how you tagged them (both practical and theory test centres).

Also curious as to how they've been named (if at all) as the DVSA just refers to them by where they are located.

Cheers

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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

Brian Prangle-2
You might want to add operator=DVSA. I tag them like Tony too

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 23:04, Silent Spike <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Tony, as the only reply here so far I've followed your approach.

Could be valuable in future to develop a tagging scheme for these centres as they each do testing for different types of license, etc.

Cheers

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 9:47 AM Tony Shield <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

Had same problem earlier. I gave a node (5490954973) within the building=office outline

office=government

name=Chorley Driving Test Centre

Regards

TonyS999

On 25/01/2019 22:06, Silent Spike wrote:
Searching the wiki I can't find anything that feels right for mapping driving test centres.

If anyone has mapped these in the past I'd be curious to know how you tagged them (both practical and theory test centres).

Also curious as to how they've been named (if at all) as the DVSA just refers to them by where they are located.

Cheers

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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

Mike Baggaley
In reply to this post by Silent Spike
You could also add government=transportation to office=government

Regards,
Mike



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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

Paul Berry

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 12:08, Mike Baggaley <[hidden email]> wrote:
You could also add government=transportation to office=government

Regards,
Mike



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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

David Woolley
On 28/01/2019 12:45, Paul Berry wrote:
> Does https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddriving_school 
> not fit the bill?

Schools are closer to the poacher than the gamekeeper!  No.  I don't
think they are equivalent.

> Tag usage here:
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/amenity=driving_school#map
>

Says that the tag is not sufficiently used to be mappable!

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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

Paul Berry
(Moment of reflection.) Sorry, you're right, of course they're not. That'll teach me to attempt to multitask at work.

As you were.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 12:52, David Woolley <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 28/01/2019 12:45, Paul Berry wrote:
> Does https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddriving_school
> not fit the bill?

Schools are closer to the poacher than the gamekeeper!  No.  I don't
think they are equivalent.

> Tag usage here:
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/amenity=driving_school#map
>

Says that the tag is not sufficiently used to be mappable!

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Re: Mapping Driving Test Centres

TonyS

Summarising, which I shall write up and place on the wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Tagging_Guidelines, creating a new section  - DVSA Tagging.

Sources:

Found this link https://www.dft.gov.uk/fyn/practical.php which is s search page for Driving Test Centres. Provides addresses and links to Google  and OSM maps.

Tagging Guideline:

Node

office=government

operator=DVSA

name=Chorley Driving Test Centre,  recommend a name but many of them do not have a sign on the outside, it may be on the DVSA website.

government=transportation

address tags as appropriate,.

TonyS999 -  Tony

On 28/01/2019 13:12, Paul Berry wrote:
(Moment of reflection.) Sorry, you're right, of course they're not. That'll teach me to attempt to multitask at work.

As you were.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 12:52, David Woolley <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 28/01/2019 12:45, Paul Berry wrote:
> Does https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddriving_school
> not fit the bill?

Schools are closer to the poacher than the gamekeeper!  No.  I don't
think they are equivalent.

> Tag usage here:
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/amenity=driving_school#map
>

Says that the tag is not sufficiently used to be mappable!

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