Powerbank Sharing Systems

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Powerbank Sharing Systems

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https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Powerbank-sharing_systems_by_name


I can’t see any tagging related to powerbank sharing systems. 

Unless anyone can point me to existing tagging, I will submit a proposal, based on amenity=bicycle_sharing, titled amenity=powerbank_sharing for tagging docking station. 

Chimpy (linked above) appears to use docking stations and over-the-counter rentals. Should an additional tag, such as service:powerbank:rental=yes, be included for existing features?

Thanks
Jake

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Re: Powerbank Sharing Systems

Peter Elderson
Wouldn't that just duplicate the location systems they offer? And on top of that,  a sizable maintenance burden to keep up with the changes? Who is going to want this on OSM after committing to a chain?

Best, Peter Elderson


Op za 19 sep. 2020 om 13:02 schreef Jake Edmonds via Tagging <[hidden email]>:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Powerbank-sharing_systems_by_name


I can’t see any tagging related to powerbank sharing systems. 

Unless anyone can point me to existing tagging, I will submit a proposal, based on amenity=bicycle_sharing, titled amenity=powerbank_sharing for tagging docking station. 

Chimpy (linked above) appears to use docking stations and over-the-counter rentals. Should an additional tag, such as service:powerbank:rental=yes, be included for existing features?

Thanks
Jake
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Re: Powerbank Sharing Systems

Andy Townsend
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On 19/09/2020 11:59, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Powerbank-sharing_systems_by_name 
>
> https://heychimpy.com
> https://www.wecharge.me
>
>
> I can’t see any tagging related to powerbank sharing systems.
>
Have you tried searching OSM data by name using Taginfo?


> Unless anyone can point me to existing tagging, I will submit a
> proposal, based on amenity=bicycle_sharing, titled
> amenity=powerbank_sharing for tagging docking station.
>
I wouldn't worry about that - that'll just waste everyone's time.  If
some on-the-ground infrastructure is missing from the map, just map it. 
It's perfectly possible to search by name or operator later if a
consensus emerges about tagging.


> Chimpy (linked above) appears to use docking stations and
> over-the-counter rentals. Should an additional tag, such as
> service:powerbank:rental=yes, be included for existing features?

Probably not.  We don't tend to tag "everything a shop might sell". 
There are exceptions (food, drinks), and if you want to map the
availability of a particular service then you are free to do so - just
don't expect everyone else to do it too.

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: Powerbank Sharing Systems

Andy Townsend
In reply to this post by Tagging mailing list
On 19/09/2020 11:59, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Powerbank-sharing_systems_by_name 
>
> https://heychimpy.com
> https://www.wecharge.me
>
>
> I can’t see any tagging related to powerbank sharing systems.
>
You might be able to find some of them if you search for the name in
taginfo - go to https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/ , search for the name
and click the "values" tag - you'll get something like
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=chimpy#values .


> Unless anyone can point me to existing tagging, I will submit a
> proposal, based on amenity=bicycle_sharing, titled
> amenity=powerbank_sharing for tagging docking station.

If there really are none of these mapped right now, and they are
mappable (fixed things that don't move about), I'd concentrate on adding
the ones that you know about to the map as "some new tag that you think
is appropriate".   It's perfectly possible to search by name or operator
later if a consensus emerges, and change the ones that you mapped
previously to that new consensus.

I wouldn't bother with a proposal - I really don't think that it would
add any value in a case like this.

Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: Powerbank Sharing Systems

Tagging mailing list
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend


> On 19 Sep 2020, at 13:26, Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 19/09/2020 11:59, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote:
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Powerbank-sharing_systems_by_name 
>> https://heychimpy.com
>> https://www.wecharge.me
>>
>>
>> I can’t see any tagging related to powerbank sharing systems.
>>
> Have you tried searching OSM data by name using Taginfo?

I have but I’m aware I might have missed something

>
>> Unless anyone can point me to existing tagging, I will submit a proposal, based on amenity=bicycle_sharing, titled amenity=powerbank_sharing for tagging docking station.
>>
> I wouldn't worry about that - that'll just waste everyone's time.  If some on-the-ground infrastructure is missing from the map, just map it.  It's perfectly possible to search by name or operator later if a consensus emerges about tagging.
>

Maybe a proposal that needs voting on isn’t need but is it accepted to add things to the wiki without one?
It’s much nicer to find a page on the wiki than looking through tag info trying to decide if something already exists.

>
>> Chimpy (linked above) appears to use docking stations and over-the-counter rentals. Should an additional tag, such as service:powerbank:rental=yes, be included for existing features?
>
> Probably not.  We don't tend to tag "everything a shop might sell".  There are exceptions (food, drinks), and if you want to map the availability of a particular service then you are free to do so - just don't expect everyone else to do it too.

I’m unsure on how many Chimpy locations are docked vs over-the-counter (for example) but wouldn’t it be incorrect to add a node for something that doesn’t exist (in the case of over-the-counter).

I wouldn’t expect everyone to do it, but as above, it’s nice to have an example for mappers

>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


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Re: Powerbank Sharing Systems

Andy Townsend
On 19/09/2020 12:47, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote:
> Maybe a proposal that needs voting on isn’t need but is it accepted to
> add things to the wiki without one?

People certainly do do that (an example that comes to mind is
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:verge ).  I don't see a problem
with adding a page that says "this is how I'd suggest mapping this
feature".  What's more problematic is adding something to "map features"
that isn't really an accepted tag, just one person's "good idea", or
gaming taginfo numbers by mechanically editing values to match a new tag
(which has been done in the past).  An example of a group of tags where
problems were reported was
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:motorcycle:theme and earlier
related pages - there were suggestions that the wiki was edited so that
it looked like "accepted tagging" when it wasn't.

If you're worried that creating a new wiki page will make it look "too
official" you can always create a wiki page underneath your wiki user
and make it clear that it's a personal page (but still a suggestion to
other mappers).


> It’s much nicer to find a page on the wiki than looking through tag info trying to decide if something already exists.

Ultimately it's tag usage (by "real human beings" rather than imports
etc.) that matters - that means that lots of people have agreed that
it's a good idea to map a certain feature a certain way.  Any one person
can add a wiki page; a few more can create and accept a wiki proposal,
but neither of those really means that it's a widely accepted tag.  That
doesn't mean that the proposal process has no value at all, but it does
mean that if none of X are currently mapped let's at least try and map
some of X before having a discussion about it.

Best Regards.

Andy

PS: Sorry for double post earlier - problem was not enough coffee yet.




>


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Re: Powerbank Sharing Systems

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Understood Andy, thanks for the suggestions

> On 19 Sep 2020, at 14:10, Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 19/09/2020 12:47, Jake Edmonds via Tagging wrote:
>> Maybe a proposal that needs voting on isn’t need but is it accepted to add things to the wiki without one?
>
> People certainly do do that (an example that comes to mind is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:verge ).  I don't see a problem with adding a page that says "this is how I'd suggest mapping this feature".  What's more problematic is adding something to "map features" that isn't really an accepted tag, just one person's "good idea", or gaming taginfo numbers by mechanically editing values to match a new tag (which has been done in the past).  An example of a group of tags where problems were reported was https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:motorcycle:theme and earlier related pages - there were suggestions that the wiki was edited so that it looked like "accepted tagging" when it wasn't.
>
> If you're worried that creating a new wiki page will make it look "too official" you can always create a wiki page underneath your wiki user and make it clear that it's a personal page (but still a suggestion to other mappers).
>
>
>> It’s much nicer to find a page on the wiki than looking through tag info trying to decide if something already exists.
>
> Ultimately it's tag usage (by "real human beings" rather than imports etc.) that matters - that means that lots of people have agreed that it's a good idea to map a certain feature a certain way.  Any one person can add a wiki page; a few more can create and accept a wiki proposal, but neither of those really means that it's a widely accepted tag.  That doesn't mean that the proposal process has no value at all, but it does mean that if none of X are currently mapped let's at least try and map some of X before having a discussion about it.
>
> Best Regards.
>
> Andy
>
> PS: Sorry for double post earlier - problem was not enough coffee yet.
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


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Re: Powerbank Sharing Systems

dieterdreist
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Am Sa., 19. Sept. 2020 um 13:49 Uhr schrieb Jake Edmonds via Tagging <[hidden email]>:
>> Unless anyone can point me to existing tagging, I will submit a proposal, based on amenity=bicycle_sharing, titled amenity=powerbank_sharing for tagging docking station.
>>
> I wouldn't worry about that - that'll just waste everyone's time.  If some on-the-ground infrastructure is missing from the map, just map it.  It's perfectly possible to search by name or operator later if a consensus emerges about tagging.


by that time (consensus has emerged) you will quite probably find several consensi having emerged, and a bunch of people each defending their "consensus" ;-)


 
Maybe a proposal that needs voting on isn’t need but is it accepted to add things to the wiki without one?
It’s much nicer to find a page on the wiki than looking through tag info trying to decide if something already exists.


I agree that explicit documentation is better than searching taginfo, also because it will encourage other people more to use the same tags, and because you can explain what the tag means, while taginfo, as long as there isn't documentation, will only tell you _that_ a tag is in use. IMHO you better make a proposal than documenting tags as de facto which in reality still have to reach this level. You could make it clear that it is a proposal. Personally, I have made some proposals without bringing them to voting (i.e. noones time "wasted", besides my own), because having the proposal in the wiki was already sufficient that other people caught up. And then you have to guard it because some people will set it to abandoned status which is very harmful for adoption ;-)

If you are going to set up a page without a proposal, make it clear that it is a proposal anyway (in the sense that it is not established). At that point, why not making it a proposal straightaway?

 

>
>> Chimpy (linked above) appears to use docking stations and over-the-counter rentals. Should an additional tag, such as service:powerbank:rental=yes, be included for existing features?
> Probably not.  We don't tend to tag "everything a shop might sell". 


You could do it. We do not tag everything a shop might sell, but we do have exceptions for things that are not typically to be expected and are useful, e.g. a convenience store which also acts as post office, or offers a specific service (and power bank rental could be seen as this), for example shops where you can get money from your debit card like at an atm. Basically it is the people who decide: if there are many mappers who think this is an interesting feature, they will map it, otherwise it will "fail" (not be used in sufficient numbers to prove useful).

Generally, for features like this, you need 2 tags: one for the feature (the standalone devices) and one for use as a property (a shop offers them as service).
For the feature, it could for example be tagged as amenity=vending_machine, vending=powerbank_sharing (automatic device selling goods or services). Or as you said, with a dedicated top level tag like amenity=powerbank_sharing_station (similar to amenity=photo_booth).

Cheers,
Martin

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