Preston Park, Brighton

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Preston Park, Brighton

Jez Nicholson
I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture excruciating detail (so shoot me!). https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432&layers=N

Any suggestions?

Those tree-y areas are amenity=wood which is probably wrong. Should it be a land_use?

How many 'seats' to a 'normal' bench? https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/seats#values

Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?

How did the clock tower get moved down to next to the road!! https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20954883

Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

TonyS

Hi

Like the idea of focusing on a particular area such as Preston Park. I only know the area from photographs and maps - but i did visit Brighton many years ago.

Tree-y areas - many people use natural=wood. Appears to render the same but database users may have different uses, so I tend to natural=wood or both cos it is an amenity in a public park.

Seats on a bench, and are there dividers to stop people sleeping there - personally think if two or more can sit there and its a discrete object its a bench.

Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the meanings in the relationship.

Clock Towers - there are two mapped in Preston Park - neither appears to be complete in that they are physical objects which do not render.

Your ref : 20954883

is close to Preston Drove bus stop with amenity=clock & support=tower. Suggest man-made=tower could be more appropriate and would allow it to render. Local knowledge details are essential to complete it.

Additionally there is close to The Ride.
amenity=clock
date=no
display=analog
name=Preston Park Clock Tower
visibility=area
website=https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1380948
wikidata=Q26661100

which would render with man_made=tower

Is this the type of response you were looking for, hope so,  I find it useful to think about it and see what other people think.

Regards
Tony Shield -  TonyS999

On 04/06/2019 11:13, Jez Nicholson wrote:
I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture excruciating detail (so shoot me!). https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432&layers=N

Any suggestions?

Those tree-y areas are amenity=wood which is probably wrong. Should it be a land_use?

How many 'seats' to a 'normal' bench? https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/seats#values

Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?

How did the clock tower get moved down to next to the road!! https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20954883

Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Jez Nicholson
Thanks Tony,

Exactly the kind of response I was after.

The 2*clock towers comes from the original accidentally (I assume) being moved and lost because it doesn't render. Another one was then created in the original position. I just this day spotted the node.

I just measured a bench and it is 8ft wide...which I might call a 4-seater.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:49 Tony Shield, <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

Like the idea of focusing on a particular area such as Preston Park. I only know the area from photographs and maps - but i did visit Brighton many years ago.

Tree-y areas - many people use natural=wood. Appears to render the same but database users may have different uses, so I tend to natural=wood or both cos it is an amenity in a public park.

Seats on a bench, and are there dividers to stop people sleeping there - personally think if two or more can sit there and its a discrete object its a bench.

Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the meanings in the relationship.

Clock Towers - there are two mapped in Preston Park - neither appears to be complete in that they are physical objects which do not render.

Your ref : 20954883

is close to Preston Drove bus stop with amenity=clock & support=tower. Suggest man-made=tower could be more appropriate and would allow it to render. Local knowledge details are essential to complete it.

Additionally there is close to The Ride.
amenity=clock
date=no
display=analog
name=Preston Park Clock Tower
visibility=area
website=https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1380948
wikidata=Q26661100

which would render with man_made=tower

Is this the type of response you were looking for, hope so,  I find it useful to think about it and see what other people think.

Regards
Tony Shield -  TonyS999

On 04/06/2019 11:13, Jez Nicholson wrote:
I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture excruciating detail (so shoot me!). https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432&layers=N

Any suggestions?

Those tree-y areas are amenity=wood which is probably wrong. Should it be a land_use?

How many 'seats' to a 'normal' bench? https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/seats#values

Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?

How did the clock tower get moved down to next to the road!! https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20954883

Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?

Regards,
             Jez

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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by TonyS
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Jez Nicholson
Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can verify it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in runners. I don't really want to proliferate Relations, but could be convinced if we got Parkrun itself to hook up with us to provide route maps. Not even sure it works anyway as the route involves 2 laps with slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not going to do it now.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Sailfish device
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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Great Britain mailing list
An Overpass query for relation["type"="route"]["operator"~"parkrun",i] throws up 38 mapped Parkruns globally of which I'm (at least partially) responsible for mapping four. I should probably add some more, either from memory or via tourism (could be a good personal project...)

I think if a bus route with all its potential complexity can be mapped then a Parkrun can be as well - it's only 5km so how complicated can it be!

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 1:41 PM Jez Nicholson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can verify it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in runners. I don't really want to proliferate Relations, but could be convinced if we got Parkrun itself to hook up with us to provide route maps. Not even sure it works anyway as the route involves 2 laps with slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not going to do it now.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Sailfish device
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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Gareth L
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson

I agree with Phil. Would love to find parkrun render all their running routes. They already show locations on an OSM sourced map.

But as they choose the route, and they’re transient affairs with no indication outside of the event, I’d keep it in their own database. (much like buses)

 

Gareth

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: 04 June 2019 13:41
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

 

Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can verify it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in runners. I don't really want to proliferate Relations, but could be convinced if we got Parkrun itself to hook up with us to provide route maps. Not even sure it works anyway as the route involves 2 laps with slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not going to do it now.

 

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes, <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Sailfish device
_______________________________________________
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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Gareth L

Especially as they currently draw the route on google maps! https://www.parkrun.org.uk/prestonpark/course/

 

 

 


From: Gareth L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2019 2:04:35 PM
To: Jez Nicholson; Philip Barnes
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton
 

I agree with Phil. Would love to find parkrun render all their running routes. They already show locations on an OSM sourced map.

But as they choose the route, and they’re transient affairs with no indication outside of the event, I’d keep it in their own database. (much like buses)

 

Gareth

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: 04 June 2019 13:41
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

 

Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can verify it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in runners. I don't really want to proliferate Relations, but could be convinced if we got Parkrun itself to hook up with us to provide route maps. Not even sure it works anyway as the route involves 2 laps with slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not going to do it now.

 

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes, <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Sailfish device
_______________________________________________
Talk-GB mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson
Hi

Polygons shouldn't be attached to highways=* which represent an
infinitesimally thin centreline & provides no assumption of width. If
you wanted to add a gate to the outline of the park it would also,
inaccurately, act as a barrier on the road.

is there a pond in the rose garden? it looks lie paths & grass/planters
on the aerial views.
The rose garden's extent appears as if it should follow the bounding hedge.

Path into the playground?

add a leisure*=recreation_ground around the Croquet and Tennis Club,
Include address/website etc

* I appear to be in the minority on this, but I believe
recreation_ground should have a leisure tag not landuse as it fits
better with other 'leisures' such as park, pitch, playground etc.


> Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving
> onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?

Do the posts have a horizontal bar preventing bikes/wheelchairs? if not
then they're just posts & not a fence.

DaveF



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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Great Britain mailing list
Some park runs regularly alter their course to avoid causing damage to
the grass,
Bus routes are permanently marked with bus stops
Complexity isn't a reason to map an item of not

On 04/06/2019 14:02, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB wrote:
> An Overpass query for relation["type"="route"]["operator"~"parkrun",i]
> throws up 38 mapped Parkruns globally of which I'm (at least partially)
> responsible for mapping four. I should probably add some more, either from
> memory or via tourism (could be a good personal project...)
>
> I think if a bus route with all its potential complexity can be mapped then
> a Parkrun can be as well - it's only 5km so how complicated can it be!
>
>


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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Martin Wynne
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson
> Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving
> onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?

Hi Jez,

You can tag a way as barrier=bollard for a row of posts.

cheers,

Martin.

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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 11:15, Jez Nicholson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture excruciating detail (so shoot me!). https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432&layers=N
[snip]
> Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?

I think mapping parkrun routes is a good thing. They take place
regularly almost every Saturday morning and are certainly verifiable
on the ground during those times. Most routes are the same each week,
though some events have an alternative version for the winter, or to
avoid flooding or other events in the park.

Parkrun's own website has route maps drawn over Google Aerial Maps,
which (from experience) aren't always very good. The routes can be
inaccurate and it's not always easy to see paths on the ground in the
imagery. It's also not always easy to see the direction and
progression of multi-lap routes. It would be great if we could get
better coverage and then persuade parkrun to use a rendering based on
OSM. I think the difficult thing to do would be to off-set parts of
the route that are covered more than once (like you do on bus route
maps when more than one route follows the same road), so the entire
route can be traced. Does anyone know if there are any libraries or
leaflet extensions that do this already?

Robert.

PS: Full disclosure: I'm a run director at Thetford parkrun, and have
mapped a number of events I've run in OSM. e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2812625 for
https://www.parkrun.org.uk/thetford/course/

--
Robert Whittaker

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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Warin
In reply to this post by Jez Nicholson
On 04/06/19 20:13, Jez Nicholson wrote:

> I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping
> playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture
> excruciating detail (so shoot me!).
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432&layers=N 
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent
> driving onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?
>

I'd do them as a
barrier=bollards
material=wood
bollard=fixed
foot=yes
motorvehicle=no
And so on with as much detail as you want...





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Re: Preston Park, Brighton

Jez Nicholson
Thanks all for the suggestions. I have implemented most of them and will continue. Haven't quite detached the park from the bounding roads yet.

Dave F mentioned the footpath to the playground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/111548429  I had added this so that the playground gate didn't appear in the service road https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8131255 ...is there a better way to do this?

The pond in the Rose Garden is circular https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/682945162 with a path around the outside https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/484358840 and a central island reached by 3 sets of wide stepping stones https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/682945164 + 2 more. The gaps between the stones are narrower than the steps themselves. At the moment they look like they are floating....any tips?

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 12:46 AM Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 04/06/19 20:13, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping
> playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture
> excruciating detail (so shoot me!).
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432&layers=N
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent
> driving onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?
>

I'd do them as a
barrier=bollards
material=wood
bollard=fixed
foot=yes
motorvehicle=no
And so on with as much detail as you want...





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