Public dinner room?

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Public dinner room?

Xan-3
Hi,

How to tag a public dinner room?

Thanks in advance,
Xan.

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Re: Public dinner room?

Pieren
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How to tag a public dinner room?

Not sure if this is exactly what you search but check this :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre

Pieren

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Re: Public dinner room?

James Ewen
In reply to this post by Xan-3
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How to tag a public dinner room?

What is a public dinner room? Would it be a restaurant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restaurant

It looks to be a term used in Australia to describe a restaurant.

--
James
VE6SRV

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Re: Public dinner room?

John F. Eldredge
James Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > How to tag a public dinner room?
>
> What is a public dinner room? Would it be a restaurant?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restaurant
>
> It looks to be a term used in Australia to describe a restaurant.
>
> --
> James
> VE6SRV
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Well, in the USA you have both restaurants with rooms that can be rented for parties, with the food coming from the restaurant kitchen; and also banquet halls that provide the meeting space, tables, and chairs, but no food, meaning that you have to either hire a third-party caterer, or else have the guests bring the food themselves (known as a potluck dinner).

--
John F. Eldredge --  [hidden email]
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: Public dinner room?

James Ewen
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:05 PM, John F. Eldredge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, in the USA you have both restaurants with rooms that can be
> rented for parties, with the food coming from the restaurant kitchen;
> and also banquet halls that provide the meeting space, tables, and
> chairs, but no food, meaning that you have to either hire a third-party
> caterer, or else have the guests bring the food themselves (known as
> a potluck dinner).

And hence the request for clarification as to what a "public diner
room" might be.

--
James
VE6SRV

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Re: Public dinner room?

Xan-3
Al 13/04/12 05:30, En/na James Ewen ha escrit:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:05 PM, John F. Eldredge<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Well, in the USA you have both restaurants with rooms that can be
>> rented for parties, with the food coming from the restaurant kitchen;
>> and also banquet halls that provide the meeting space, tables, and
>> chairs, but no food, meaning that you have to either hire a third-party
>> caterer, or else have the guests bring the food themselves (known as
>> a potluck dinner).
> And hence the request for clarification as to what a "public diner
> room" might be.
>
In my case a "public dinner room" is a place that people can dinner, but
there is no service, no food, etc. There are only tables and waste bins.
The people bring their food and drink. Eventually there could be a
drinking water source and kitchen.

It's something like "picnic site" indoor ;-)


amenity=community_centre is not appropiate for me, I think, because it's
for "events and festivities" and "public dinner room" is _only_ for
eating something in lunch and dinner hours.

It's very rare, but in my local zone (Mallorca, Spain) it's usually a
place in hiking routes, in houses (eventually these houses could be as
hostel or related amenity).


Another suggestion?
Thanks,
Xan.

PS: What is the "information" WMS in OSM web page? I can't display the
info of the items of the map.

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Re: Public dinner room?

James Ewen
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In my case a "public dinner room" is a place that people can dinner, but
> there is no service, no food, etc. There are only tables and waste bins. The
> people bring their food and drink. Eventually there could be a drinking
> water source and kitchen.
>
> It's something like "picnic site" indoor ;-)

Hmm, nothing like that in western Canada, nor western USA that I have
ever seen. We have picnic shelters where you might find picnic tables
under a roofed semi enclosed shelter, and possibly a wood stove, but
nothing where you would find tables for the general public to
congregate for lunch.

There are private "lunch rooms" in many businesses where the employees
can eat their lunch. Food courts are also found around here in
shopping malls which are similar to what you describe, but will have
many different fast food franchises around the area where people could
purchase food.

Who owns the public dinner room, who pays to maintain and clean the building?

--
James
VE6SRV

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Re: Public dinner room?

Xan-3
Al 14/04/12 02:55, En/na James Ewen ha escrit:

> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Xan<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> In my case a "public dinner room" is a place that people can dinner, but
>> there is no service, no food, etc. There are only tables and waste bins. The
>> people bring their food and drink. Eventually there could be a drinking
>> water source and kitchen.
>>
>> It's something like "picnic site" indoor ;-)
> Hmm, nothing like that in western Canada, nor western USA that I have
> ever seen. We have picnic shelters where you might find picnic tables
> under a roofed semi enclosed shelter, and possibly a wood stove, but
> nothing where you would find tables for the general public to
> congregate for lunch.
>
> There are private "lunch rooms" in many businesses where the employees
> can eat their lunch. Food courts are also found around here in
> shopping malls which are similar to what you describe, but will have
> many different fast food franchises around the area where people could
> purchase food.
>
> Who owns the public dinner room, who pays to maintain and clean the building?
>
The public dinner room usually is belong to Goverment (Regional
Goverment) or the Church or benefic institutions. So there are public
and private institutions but the use is public.


thanks,



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Re: Public dinner room?

John Sturdy
In reply to this post by Xan-3
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> How to tag a public dinner room?

No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting one...

It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are done
as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
specifically a tourist facility).

We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but no
walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a touristic
picnic site).

The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
usually) would probably be "capacity="

The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
the "operator" key.

"location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key names.

Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
"access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to indicate
whether access to the area is step-free or not).

__John

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Re: Public dinner room?

Xan-3
Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> How to tag a public dinner room?
> No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting one...
>
> It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are done
> as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
> specifically a tourist facility).
>
> We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but no
> walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
> locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a touristic
> picnic site).

I will be great!!!
amenity is more convenient, I think.
amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
location options are good for me


Thanks,
Xan.

>
> The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
> usually) would probably be "capacity="
>
> The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
> the "operator" key.
>
> "location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key names.
>
> Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
> "access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to indicate
> whether access to the area is step-free or not).
>
> __John
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies


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Re: Public dinner room?

John Sturdy
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...

Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.

__John

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Re: Public dinner room?

John F. Eldredge
John Sturdy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> >> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> > amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or
> ...
>
> Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.
>

I would go for eating_area, rather than dining_room or dining_area.  To me, "dining" implies a more formal situation than "eating", and it sounds like these facilities are fairly informal.

--
John F. Eldredge --  [hidden email]
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: Public dinner room?

Aspen Swartz
In reply to this post by Xan-3
In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".

Aspen

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> How to tag a public dinner room?
>>
>> No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting one...
>>
>> It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are done
>> as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
>> specifically a tourist facility).
>>
>> We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
>> with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but no
>> walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
>> locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a touristic
>> picnic site).
>
>
> I will be great!!!
> amenity is more convenient, I think.
> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
> location options are good for me
>
>
> Thanks,
> Xan.
>
>>
>> The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
>> usually) would probably be "capacity="
>>
>> The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
>> the "operator" key.
>>
>> "location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key names.
>>
>> Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
>> "access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to indicate
>> whether access to the area is step-free or not).
>>
>> __John
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> newbies mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

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Re: Public dinner room?

Xan-3
Al 15/04/12 07:47, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".

Even if the "picnic shelter" is in a room of a building (that's my case)?

Xan.

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Re: Public dinner room?

Xan-3
In reply to this post by John Sturdy
Al 14/04/12 23:14, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>>> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
>> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
> Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.
> m
> __John
>
> ____________________

I should have 2 photo of distinct eating_areas in which I stayed. I will
search it. One photo is not-digital (old cameras, yes ;), so I will
spend a little time to find, scan and pass to you.

Xan.

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Re: Public dinner room?

Xan-3
In reply to this post by John Sturdy
Al 14/04/12 23:14, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>>> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
>> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
> Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.
>
>

John, what about "eating_place"?

@All: Do you think it's best or worst than eating_area

A flash suggestion of myself ;-)

Xan.

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Re: Public dinner room?

Xan-3
In reply to this post by Xan-3

> I should have 2 photo of distinct eating_areas in which I stayed. I
> will search it. One photo is not-digital (old cameras, yes ;), so I
> will spend a little time to find, scan and pass to you.
>
> Xan.

Temporally, I found in google images a photos which could serve you:

This [http://escavallers.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/imagen-7171.jpg] is
a image of the "Menjador dels Peregrins" of Lluc [http://www.lluc.net],
Mallorca, Spain
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.822559&lon=2.885173&zoom=18&layers=M].
In one of the rooms of this building
[http://escavallers.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/imagen-6675.jpg], you
enter with your food and dinner, lunch, ...


so
amenity = eating_area
operator = Bisbat de Mallorca (Catholic Church)
location=indoor
wheelchair = limited



Another is this
[http://www.conselldemallorca.net/media/14742/SonAmer_menjador.jpg].
It's a eating_area of Consell de Mallorca, a Regional Government. The
eating_area is belong to the "Refugi de Son Amer" a hiking place for
relax (I don't know how do you say in english) (stop the track and relax
until the next march).

Another is this
[http://www.conselldemallorca.cat/media/14753/Tossals_menjador.jpg]
which has a kitchen. So fireplace=yes in this eating_area.


More or less, do you understand what I refer to eating_area: there are
only tables. People bring food and drink. Eventually it has a kitchen
(fireplace). And it's public. No one is not_allowed to entry.

Thanks,
Xan.

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Re: Public dinner room?

John F. Eldredge
In reply to this post by Aspen Swartz
Aspen Swartz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".
>
> Aspen
>
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> >
> >> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan<[hidden email]>
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> How to tag a public dinner room?
> >>
> >> No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting
> one...
> >>
> >> It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are
> done
> >> as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
> >> specifically a tourist facility).
> >>
> >> We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> >> with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but
> no
> >> walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
> >> locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a
> touristic
> >> picnic site).
> >
> >
> > I will be great!!!
> > amenity is more convenient, I think.
> > amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or
> ...
> > location options are good for me
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Xan.
> >
> >>
> >> The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
> >> usually) would probably be "capacity="
> >>
> >> The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
> >> the "operator" key.
> >>
> >> "location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key
> names.
> >>
> >> Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
> >> "access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to
> indicate
> >> whether access to the area is step-free or not).
> >>
> >> __John
> >>

To me, "picnic shelter" implies a pavilion, with a roof but open on all sides.  The facilities described in this thread are apparently inside regular buildings.

--
John F. Eldredge --  [hidden email]
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: Public dinner room?

James Ewen
In reply to this post by Xan-3
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Al 15/04/12 07:47, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
>
>> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".
>
> Even if the "picnic shelter" is in a room of a building (that's my case)?

I doubt that you will find a global solution. There are many distinct
items that are unique to specific areas of the world. In those areas,
tags to describe those items need to be created.

Here in Canada we have roads that are built each winter over the
frozen muskeg and lakes. These ice roads only exist for a few months
each year while the temperatures are low enough to support heavy
traffic. These roads are rebuilt each year in the approximate same
place, and are extremely important routes used to haul heavy
commodities to the northern communities served by them. Without these
roads many communities would not be able to get a lot of their
supplies.

Warmer temperate and equatorial countries would never use these tags,
but they exist to describe types of roads we have here. Pick a tag,
and stick with it. If you use it enough and others pick up on it,
someone might start making maps that show these public dining rooms.
These are not picnic_shelters, nor would I consider a picnic_shelter a
public_dining_room... there's enough distinction to require unique
tags.

But then again, this is just my humble opinion.

--
James
VE6SRV

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Re: Public dinner room?

Aspen Swartz
I agree with James.  In my part of the world, we simply don't have
exactly the same type of thing as this "public dinner room".  So why
not tag it in the language of the area it's in, with the words that
locals use to describe it?

Aspen

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:24 AM, James Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Xan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Al 15/04/12 07:47, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
>>
>>> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".
>>
>> Even if the "picnic shelter" is in a room of a building (that's my case)?
>
> I doubt that you will find a global solution. There are many distinct
> items that are unique to specific areas of the world. In those areas,
> tags to describe those items need to be created.
>
> Here in Canada we have roads that are built each winter over the
> frozen muskeg and lakes. These ice roads only exist for a few months
> each year while the temperatures are low enough to support heavy
> traffic. These roads are rebuilt each year in the approximate same
> place, and are extremely important routes used to haul heavy
> commodities to the northern communities served by them. Without these
> roads many communities would not be able to get a lot of their
> supplies.
>
> Warmer temperate and equatorial countries would never use these tags,
> but they exist to describe types of roads we have here. Pick a tag,
> and stick with it. If you use it enough and others pick up on it,
> someone might start making maps that show these public dining rooms.
> These are not picnic_shelters, nor would I consider a picnic_shelter a
> public_dining_room... there's enough distinction to require unique
> tags.
>
> But then again, this is just my humble opinion.
>
> --
> James
> VE6SRV
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

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