Re: Public Transport Timetables

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

OSMDoudou
> Even if you can make it fit, it's not necessarily a good idea to do it.
> I'm thinking of the Hoover Dustette.

Excuse my ignorance. You’re thinking to what ?

> I'm not sure that a wiki would be the optimal architecture for this if we ended up with many GTFS feeds that were interrogated frequently.

Problem solved already, it seems: http://transitfeeds.com.

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 12:07 AM OSMDoudou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Even if you can make it fit, it's not necessarily a good idea to do it.
> I'm thinking of the Hoover Dustette.

Excuse my ignorance. You’re thinking to what ?

The Hoover Dustette was a cylinder vacuum cleaner.  The impeller had no protective guard since
it was set so far inside the machine that the British Standard Finger (yes, there is such a thing)
could not reach it and therefore it was not a danger.  Not a danger until somebody found himself
sexually attracted to something that was warm, throbbed and sucked.  It didn't end well for him.
Nor for the others that tried the same thing.  The excuses they came up with for how they had their
"accident" were amusing.  Moral which applies to this thread: even if you can make it fit, it may not
be a good idea to do so.

> I'm not sure that a wiki would be the optimal architecture for this if we ended up with many GTFS feeds that were interrogated frequently.

Problem solved already, it seems: http://transitfeeds.com.

 Looks good, apart from their problem loading Google Maps.  If only there were some other map
they could use instead. :)

I think that, unless there are serious flaws with GTFS, we should figure out a way to tag it.  Another
problem I thought of is whether it should go on individual stops or route relations.  Simplicity and
data integrity says on route relations.  The ability for an ordinary user to use the query tool on the
standard map to find which buses stop at a certain stop and at what times says on bus/train stops.

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 10:36, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think that, unless there are serious flaws with GTFS, we should figure out a way to tag it.  Another
problem I thought of is whether it should go on individual stops or route relations.  Simplicity and
data integrity says on route relations.  The ability for an ordinary user to use the query tool on the
standard map to find which buses stop at a certain stop and at what times says on bus/train stops.

 & as with a lot of things, KISS seems to work :-)

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-28.07721/153.42965 has a bus top (or should that be a Public Transport Platform? :-))  https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2196646878, with a simple URL http://translink.com.au/stop/300704/gtfs/ (& yes, we have explicit permission to link to that data!) for the current timetable (next 2 departures), together with any known, upcoming changes. 

There are actually 3 routes that use that stop, with the other 2 being school buses - if you click on the "View Full Timetable" button, you then get https://jp.translink.com.au/plan-your-journey/stops/300704/timetable/2018-11-08?dateRedirect=False, which shows everything for today.

That URL tag could be easily renamed to timetable / schedule or similar.

Which page would we prefer - the current departures or the full day?

I know that not everywhere has a usable GTFS, but for those places that do, it would appear to be a pretty simple process to make use of it! :-)

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:01 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
Which page would we prefer - the current departures or the full day?

All of them. :)

Seriously, which one I'd want would depend upon circumstances.  For planning a journey at
some as-yet-undecided point in the future I'd want to see the full timetable covering all service
days.  For planning a journey on a whim today, the daily timetable.  If I found myself dumped near
a bus stop (car breakdown or whatever) then the next departure.  And if I'm waiting for a bus
that seems to be running late, the live timetable showing how buses are actually running (more
than once I've missed a bus after a timetable change because the driver was running to the
old timetable that was ten minutes earlier).

So,  ideally, all of them.  But that makes it complicated to map and to use.  I'd pick one of them, but
what if on a particular route that one isn't available but the others are?  So I'm tempted to go for
a scheme which allows any or all of them to be specified - gtfs:full=* and gtfs:next=* and the mapper
can add as many of them as desired.  Maybe have the tag more general so it can link to non-gtfs
timetables on operator websites too.  Maybe we don't even have to specify gtfs as we don't really
care the underlying mechanism for ordinary users.  However, routers would probably want the
raw GTFS tables, so we need to accommodate that.

And please don't forget the possibility of a single route having two operator whose GTFS feeds
list only their own vehicles on that route.  The tag has to deal with that.  And semi-colon separators
aren't viable when they're a valid component (although deprecated) in URLs with query strings.

I know that not everywhere has a usable GTFS, but for those places that do, it would appear to be a pretty simple process to make use of it! :-)

I think it would make sense to have a tag for it even if we had gone ahead with shoehorning
timetables into relations, because if it's available for a route it's a lot less work and maintenance to
use GTFS.  Even more sense, though, for mappers to input timetable stuff into GTFS somewhere
if the operators don't provide it rather than shoehorn into a relation.

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Paul


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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Leif Rasmussen
In reply to this post by Leif Rasmussen
Integrating GTFS seems like a much better idea than adding actual schedules to OpenStreetMap.  I had not considered this previously because I did not understand how GTFS is used worldwide.  Perhaps it would be possible to start something like a new gtfs.openstreetmap.org (which would be similar to transit.land and transitfeeds.com, but with a focus of OpenStreetMap integration) for hosting GTFS feeds that could be integrated into OSM.  That would allow for much easier integration and maintenance.  

Copying what Google has done successfully seems like a better option than creating a big, out of date mess.

I think that creating a new GTFS server would be better than using transit land or transitfeeds.com, because OSM would have full control over what happened to the servers and which licencing was used.

Does anyone with experience in GTFS know how an integration like that could work?  Also, is what I am imagining even possible?

Thanks,
Leif Rasmussen

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 5:07 PM Leif Rasmussen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Integrating GTFS seems like a much better idea than adding actual schedules to OpenStreetMap.  I had not considered this previously because I did not understand how GTFS is used worldwide.  Perhaps it would be possible to start something like a new gtfs.openstreetmap.org (which would be similar to transit.land and transitfeeds.com, but with a focus of OpenStreetMap integration) for hosting GTFS feeds that could be integrated into OSM.  That would allow for much easier integration and maintenance. 

Easier still would be to use existing feeds.  The only copyright issue involved iswhether or not those
feeds permit "deep linking" and I think most do.

Copying what Google has done successfully seems like a better option than creating a big, out of date mess.

Google has put a lot of thought into it.  It's possible, of course, that the current GTFS now evolved from
more primitive beginnings and has a few things that might be bettter if starting from scratch.
Nevertheless, it seems like a workable system and, more importantly, it's already in use and some
organizations use it to make their route information public.  I don't think that wheel needs to be
re-invented.

I think that creating a new GTFS server would be better than using transit land or transitfeeds.com, because OSM would have full control over what happened to the servers and which licencing was used.

I think that anything other than full mirroring, in the same way the OSM database is mirrored by other
tile providers, would be a mistake.  And even full mirroring would be unnecessary for this usage.  I
see an OSM GTFS server, if it comes into existence, as a way for mappers to create GTFS feeds
for routes that don't currently have them.  And, if we're able to use something like transitland or
transitfeeds for that purpose, we don't even need an OSM server (unless we don't trust their data
or trust them to stay in existence, for some reason).

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Philip Barnes
In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In fact they are part of the OSM community and update the map.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:44 PM Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In fact they are part of the OSM community and update the map.


s/UK/England/ possibly even s/UK/West Midlands/

It appears that the different regional branches of Traveline do things differently.   The interface
for Traveline Cymru is not very pleasant or easy to use, and ends up with Google Maps. :(

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Philip Barnes
On Thu, 2018-11-08 at 20:24 +0000, Paul Allen wrote:
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:44 PM Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In fact they are part of the OSM community and update the map.



s/UK/England/ possibly even s/UK/West Midlands/

It appears that the different regional branches of Traveline do things differently.   The interface
for Traveline Cymru is not very pleasant or easy to use, and ends up with Google Maps. :(

It does seem that they do things differently, but certainly West Midlands, East Midlands and South East use the same interface. Although as they are all national just ignore traveline.cymru and use one of the others :)

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Andy Townsend
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
On 08/11/2018 20:24, Paul Allen wrote:
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:44 PM Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
In the UK traveline already provide this service and use OSM. In fact they are part of the OSM community and update the map.


FWIW I've just used https://www.traveline.info/ to find journey between Porthmadog and Criccieth and Bearsden and Milton of Campsie (yes!  There are ones at this time of night!) so the main site does  indeed work in Wales and Scotland.


s/UK/England/ possibly even s/UK/West Midlands/

The "about" page says "for all travel in Great Britain by bus, rail, coach and ferry".  As Phil mentioned, at least one of the Traveline people is a regular on the GB mailing list and may also see this message.  So not UK (but to be fair I don't think that anyone ws ever claiming that NI travel was covered) but certainly GB - which is of course "in the UK".

Other than Traveline, plenty of other OSMers* have worked in the transport / route planning area - both "startups" and more traditional transport authorities.  I know of others have looked at consuming GTFS for bus routes in England, and found that it can be a bit complicated as the same numbered route can exist multiple times in the GTFS feed with only minor differences for the variations - it's not just a simple case of "grab all that data from there and use it" unless you're prepared to do quite a bit of processing.  You really need to be an app to do anything useful with the data (such as https://oeffi.schildbach.de/index.html - which works everywhere in GB that I've tried it and presumably uses Traveline's feeds, or something similar) - anything else would just be "reinventing GTFS".

Best Regards,

Andy

* not naming anyone; they can out themselves if they so wish :)


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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Paul Allen

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 22:28, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

All of them. :)

Seriously, which one I'd want would depend upon circumstances.

Agree with you, but I don't think we need to provide all those options, just get the viewer to the right website, because once they're there, there are links provided by the operator to go to other pages etc. I think that the "next bus" page would be better one to land on, as it's simpler / easier to read, while the "full timetable" page may be a bit unwieldy on a mobile phone?
 
Maybe have the tag more general so it can link to non-gtfs
timetables on operator websites too.  Maybe we don't even have to specify gtfs

"Timetable" with the URL? Had a quick search & can't see that timetable is yet in use as a tag. Perhaps "schedule" but I personally prefer timetable for bus & so on times.

And please don't forget the possibility of a single route having two operator whose GTFS feeds
list only their own vehicles on that route. The tag has to deal with that.  And semi-colon separators
aren't viable 

Simple way may just be multiple timetable tags - "timetable:red_busline=URL*" "timetable:blue_busline=URL*"

Here's another stop nearby, which is a fairly major hub https://jp.translink.com.au/plan-your-journey/stops/300018, which has 12 separate routes stopping there. These are all controlled under one network "Translink", but the actual buses using these routes belong to 3 different bus companies. There're also long-distance / interstate coaches that stop here, but they aren't covered by Translink so their times aren't shown.

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:27 PM Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:

FWIW I've just used https://www.traveline.info/ to find journey between Porthmadog and Criccieth and Bearsden and Milton of Campsie (yes!  There are ones at this time of night!) so the main site does  indeed work in Wales and Scotland.

Yes, it works.  But it doesn't have an option to use Cymraeg.  Which would be a show-stopper
for some people in Wales, who would rather use a site that is completely broken if it is in
Welsh rather than a site that works but is only available in English.

Also, the .cymru site has something the .info site does not, route maps.   I just pulled up a local
route and looked at its map.  Admittedly it is a very weird and complicated route (reminiscent of
a spider web on drugs), but this route map gets it wrong in many, many ways:

Kinda reminds me of a Google bus route I looked at several years ago which apparently drew straight
lines (through houses and across fields) between timetabled stops rather than following a road between
them.  Told me to get to a location on the actual bus route by getting off a mile beyond and walking
back because it had joined the stops with straight lines through fields.  It was only by playing around
that I got it to show the route it was using, which at one point ploughed through the middle of a small
housing estate and took a straight line across farmland to the next timetabled stop.
 
Other than Traveline, plenty of other OSMers* have worked in the transport / route planning area - both "startups" and more traditional transport authorities.  I know of others have looked at consuming GTFS for bus routes in England, and found that it can be a bit complicated as the same numbered route can exist multiple times in the GTFS feed with only minor differences for the variations - it's not just a simple case of "grab all that data from there and use it" unless you're prepared to do quite a bit of processing.  You really need to be an app to do anything useful with the data (such as https://oeffi.schildbach.de/index.html - which works everywhere in GB that I've tried it and presumably uses Traveline's feeds, or something similar) - anything else would just be "reinventing GTFS".

So what's the copyright situation with Traveline's GTFS feeds?  Are we free to use any of them to add
routes to OSM?  Obviously, they'd have to be sanity-checked...

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Paul


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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Graeme Fitzpatrick



On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 07:53, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Kinda reminds me of a Google bus route I looked at several years ago which apparently drew straight
lines (through houses and across fields) between timetabled stops rather than following a road between
them. 

I was wondering whether you had flying buses, or lot's of tunnels under the river? :-)

Totally OT I know, but how would you go about suggesting to these companies that they use OSM maps rather than Google?

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:43 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 22:28, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

All of them. :)

Seriously, which one I'd want would depend upon circumstances.

Agree with you, but I don't think we need to provide all those options, just get the viewer to the right website, because once they're there, there are links provided by the operator to go to other pages etc.

It wasn't clear to me (from casual inspection) that operators would not necessarily do that.  If I
understand it correctly (quite possibly not) your examples are not GTFS feeds but timetables
derived from them.
 
I think that the "next bus" page would be better one to land on, as it's simpler / easier to read, while the "full timetable" page may be a bit unwieldy on a mobile phone?

Good point.  Especially as around here full timetables are PDF because that's all the local
operators and county council can figure out to produce timetables.

Maybe have the tag more general so it can link to non-gtfs
timetables on operator websites too.  Maybe we don't even have to specify gtfs

"Timetable" with the URL? Had a quick search & can't see that timetable is yet in use as a tag. Perhaps "schedule" but I personally prefer timetable for bus & so on times.

Timetable works for me.  We could just use url=* but it's possible we'll find another purpose for
that in some situation and timetable=* would make it clear to data consumers.

And please don't forget the possibility of a single route having two operator whose GTFS feeds
list only their own vehicles on that route. The tag has to deal with that.  And semi-colon separators
aren't viable 

Simple way may just be multiple timetable tags - "timetable:red_busline=URL*" "timetable:blue_busline=URL*"

That was a suggestion I made earlier in the thread, but nobody responded either way.  Only problem
with that is do we insist on the operator name even when there's only one operator?  Probably best
if we do.  Of course, then there's the problem of ensuring mappers use a consistent name for an
operator, and how we handle collisions.  It looks like traveline has assigned unique operator
codes for UK operators and it would seem very sensible to re-use those.

Here's another stop nearby, which is a fairly major hub https://jp.translink.com.au/plan-your-journey/stops/300018, which has 12 separate routes stopping there.

If we're going to apply timetable:operator=* to a relation for a route, that's not a problem.  If we're going to
apply it to stops then it will have to be timetable:route_ref:operator=*.
 
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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Jo-2
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
One thing that I found while trying this 'little' exercise is that it would be good to have an object that 'represents' an operator or a network. I was using this to keep track of holidays with Sunday schedule and when school vacations are, because that influences the timetables, but it  could definitely also serve to point to where one can find a GTFS for the operator/network/agency and how GTFS fields translate to OSM tags:

In my region I have started to use ref:De_Lijn=102345, in the GTFS feed I found this corresponds to the stop_code field.

What I plan to do is to add a url tag to all the stops, that lead to a web page with realtime for each separate stop. On the route_master relations, I plan to point to the operator's web site's page describing that particular line.

Polyglot

Op do 8 nov. 2018 om 22:53 schreef Paul Allen <[hidden email]>:

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:27 PM Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:

FWIW I've just used https://www.traveline.info/ to find journey between Porthmadog and Criccieth and Bearsden and Milton of Campsie (yes!  There are ones at this time of night!) so the main site does  indeed work in Wales and Scotland.

Yes, it works.  But it doesn't have an option to use Cymraeg.  Which would be a show-stopper
for some people in Wales, who would rather use a site that is completely broken if it is in
Welsh rather than a site that works but is only available in English.

Also, the .cymru site has something the .info site does not, route maps.   I just pulled up a local
route and looked at its map.  Admittedly it is a very weird and complicated route (reminiscent of
a spider web on drugs), but this route map gets it wrong in many, many ways:

Kinda reminds me of a Google bus route I looked at several years ago which apparently drew straight
lines (through houses and across fields) between timetabled stops rather than following a road between
them.  Told me to get to a location on the actual bus route by getting off a mile beyond and walking
back because it had joined the stops with straight lines through fields.  It was only by playing around
that I got it to show the route it was using, which at one point ploughed through the middle of a small
housing estate and took a straight line across farmland to the next timetabled stop.
 
Other than Traveline, plenty of other OSMers* have worked in the transport / route planning area - both "startups" and more traditional transport authorities.  I know of others have looked at consuming GTFS for bus routes in England, and found that it can be a bit complicated as the same numbered route can exist multiple times in the GTFS feed with only minor differences for the variations - it's not just a simple case of "grab all that data from there and use it" unless you're prepared to do quite a bit of processing.  You really need to be an app to do anything useful with the data (such as https://oeffi.schildbach.de/index.html - which works everywhere in GB that I've tried it and presumably uses Traveline's feeds, or something similar) - anything else would just be "reinventing GTFS".

So what's the copyright situation with Traveline's GTFS feeds?  Are we free to use any of them to add
routes to OSM?  Obviously, they'd have to be sanity-checked...

--
Paul

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 10:00 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 07:53, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Kinda reminds me of a Google bus route I looked at several years ago which apparently drew straight
lines (through houses and across fields) between timetabled stops rather than following a road between
them. 

I was wondering whether you had flying buses, or lot's of tunnels under the river? :-)

Cargo helicopters.

The route is weird, but not that weird.  Looks like they've conflated two routes by accident and then
misordered the stops so we end up with the bizarre lines that don't follow roads.  And even ignoring
that, they've got the Maesglas loop wrong.  It's very messed up.  The dead ends, though, are correct
(that's where the cargo helicopters come into play).

Totally OT I know, but how would you go about suggesting to these companies that they use OSM maps rather than Google?

With traveline I'd think it's a matter of getting the English branch to suggest it to the Welsh branch.
But unless the English branch make their suggestion in Welsh it may not get anywhere.  The
actual reason for ignoring the suggestion will be NIH syndrome, but it's easier to play silly
beggars when you can blame it on language issues.

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Paul

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Paul Allen

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 08:02, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
If I understand it correctly (quite possibly not) your examples are not GTFS feeds but timetables
derived from them.

Ugh, now you're asking questions that are way, way beyond me! Any thoughts, anyone (& does it make any difference?)

Simple way may just be multiple timetable tags - "timetable:red_busline=URL*" "timetable:blue_busline=URL*"

That was a suggestion I made earlier in the thread, but nobody responded either way. 

Sorry, didn't notice it then. (or wasn't thinking about it?)

Only problem with that is do we insist on the operator name even when there's only one operator?  Probably best
if we do. 

Do we need to? I guess it may depend on the individual bus stop - if there's only one timetable, then just timetable=, if there's multiples then timetable:translink=* + timetable:skybus=* +timetable:greyhound=*, each as a separate tag going to a different URL. Much simpler than relations or whatever, & I like simple! :-)

Of course, then there's the problem of ensuring mappers use a consistent name for an operator

Probably get's down to local knowledge? I know that everything here is covered by the Translink network, even though there are multiple companies running buses on that network, with SkyBus running between the airport & the major hotels. You know that you have Green Buses & Red Buses (or perhaps Bysiau Coch? :-)) in your area. Leave the naming to the mapper, as all we're really interested in is the correct URL for that stop. 

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Public Transport Timetables

marc marc
In reply to this post by Jo-2
Le 08. 11. 18 à 23:03, Jo a écrit :
> an object that 'represents' an operator

the operator's headquarters seems appropriate.
but the question remains open for networks.

that being said, I have the impression that we could start already with
what doesn't need it (the interval proposal, add the GTFS url on the
master route before making thousands of timetable occurrences of which
as a data user I am mixed to use if it have more than X months)
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Re: Public Transport Timetables

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 11:21 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 08:02, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
If I understand it correctly (quite possibly not) your examples are not GTFS feeds but timetables
derived from them.

Ugh, now you're asking questions that are way, way beyond me! Any thoughts, anyone (& does it make any difference?)

Several of the links posted here were for human-readable timetables.  They may have been
created from GTFS data, but they're not raw GTFS data.  They're what a typical user would
want to see.  But they're not directly usable by routers.  A router would have to "screen scrape" the
timetable and try to parse the data into a usable form.  Each operator would need their own
parser.  The parser might have to be rewritten if the operator made even minor changes to the
layout of the timetable.

The GTFS data is in a standardized form designed for things like routers to understand.  See
an average human will be able to use.

I think we definitely need timetable=* for human-type data consumers.  I think we probably also need
gtfs=* for router type data consumers.

Only problem with that is do we insist on the operator name even when there's only one operator?  Probably best
if we do. 

Do we need to? I guess it may depend on the individual bus stop - if there's only one timetable, then just timetable=, if there's multiples then timetable:translink=* + timetable:skybus=* +timetable:greyhound=*, each as a separate tag going to a different URL. Much simpler than relations or whatever, & I like simple! :-)

Yes, but many of the stops around here serve more than one route.  And some of those routes
have had (in the past) more than one operator and may do so again - council policy not to let a
single operator have too large a slice of the pie occasionally meant two operators for one route.

Of course, then there's the problem of ensuring mappers use a consistent name for an operator

Probably get's down to local knowledge? I know that everything here is covered by the Translink network, even though there are multiple companies running buses on that network, with SkyBus running between the airport & the major hotels. You know that you have Green Buses & Red Buses (or perhaps Bysiau Coch? :-))

Brodyr Richards. :)
 
 in your area. Leave the naming to the mapper, as all we're really interested in is the correct URL for that stop. 

I was also thinking of the problem where "Green Bus" in Detroit is an entirely different entity from
"Green Bus" in Kansas City.  It is desirable to have both consistency and uniqueness.  Which is
why re-using identifiers by Translink, Traveline and other national public transportation organizations
is probably a good idea (where possible) and one we should promote in the wiki entry when (if) we
write it.

--
Paul


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Re: Public Transport Timetables

rmikke
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
Paul Allen wrote
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:43 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick &lt;

> graemefitz1@

> &gt;
> wrote:
>
>> Simple way may just be multiple timetable tags -
>> "timetable:red_busline=URL*" "timetable:blue_busline=URL*"
>>
>
> That was a suggestion I made earlier in the thread, but nobody responded
> either way.  Only problem
> with that is do we insist on the operator name even when there's only one
> operator?  Probably best
> if we do.  Of course, then there's the problem of ensuring mappers use a
> consistent name for an
> operator, and how we handle collisions.  It looks like traveline has
> assigned unique operator
> codes for UK operators and it would seem very sensible to re-use those.

But that may not work so well outside UK.



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