Re: Variable position

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Re: Variable position

André Pirard-2
On 24/12/2017 02.21, Matej Lieskovský wrote:
Hello,

is there a way to map objects, whose position changes slightly?
In fact, the position of all objects changes slightly over time and a coordinate should be a vector indicating a position and a (presently best value of) direction and speed of drift.
The Greenwich meridian is presently 102m west away of the zero latitude of a GPS and it continues to drift.
See Greenwich Meridian  which is now 0.0014864° W by its nodes (which should have the same value BTW).

All the best,

André.

Example:
I know a park that has a few dozen benches. They are there practically all-year-round, but their position changes every now and then. A fixme would imply that the problem can be fixed (which does not seem practical), leaving them out completely is less than ideal and leaving them as nodes gives a false sense of precision, which is not perfect either. Is there a way of saying "there are benches somewhere around here"?

Merry X-mas,

Matej



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Re: Variable position

bkil
This is what note=* is for - when you'd like to disclose an important fact with future mappers that is not that interesting to non-mappers. You may also draw a way/area and indicate the count of benches there or the total sitting capacity. We may need to submit a proposal this, though.

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 2:53 AM André Pirard <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 24/12/2017 02.21, Matej Lieskovský wrote:
Hello,

is there a way to map objects, whose position changes slightly?
In fact, the position of all objects changes slightly over time and a coordinate should be a vector indicating a position and a (presently best value of) direction and speed of drift.
The Greenwich meridian is presently 102m west away of the zero latitude of a GPS and it continues to drift.
See Greenwich Meridian  which is now 0.0014864° W by its nodes (which should have the same value BTW).

All the best,

André.

Example:
I know a park that has a few dozen benches. They are there practically all-year-round, but their position changes every now and then. A fixme would imply that the problem can be fixed (which does not seem practical), leaving them out completely is less than ideal and leaving them as nodes gives a false sense of precision, which is not perfect either. Is there a way of saying "there are benches somewhere around here"?

Merry X-mas,

Matej


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Re: Variable position

Paul Allen
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 11:01, bkil <bkil.hu+[hidden email]> wrote:
This is what note=* is for - when you'd like to disclose an important fact with future mappers that is not that interesting to non-mappers. You may also draw a way/area and indicate the count of benches there or the total sitting capacity. We may need to submit a proposal this, though.

Or use leisure=outdoor_seating.  Not a solution if you're mapping musical benches that are
indoors, but otherwise it does what is required.  It doesn't offer a bench count but does say you
can use capacity.  And it renders.

My only gripe with this tag is the icon.  The same icon is used whether the area has weather
protection (such as a canopy) or not: the icon shows a bench with a roof over it.  Most outdoor
seating areas I've encountered around here are not covered (I believe the situation is the reverse
in some countries) and I find the icon to be very misleading.  Tourism is a big part of the local
economy here, and a tourist planning a trip on a rainy day could end up being unhappy to find
the outdoor seating isn't actually covered.  I raised this with carto who dismissed the idea of
using a different icon where weather_protection=no.

--
Paul


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Re: Variable position

bkil
Note that outdoor_seating is usually for customers, so don't forget to add:
access=yes

Also, why not simply use the already established:
shelter=no + covered=no?

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 2:35 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 11:01, bkil <bkil.hu+[hidden email]> wrote:
This is what note=* is for - when you'd like to disclose an important fact with future mappers that is not that interesting to non-mappers. You may also draw a way/area and indicate the count of benches there or the total sitting capacity. We may need to submit a proposal this, though.

Or use leisure=outdoor_seating.  Not a solution if you're mapping musical benches that are
indoors, but otherwise it does what is required.  It doesn't offer a bench count but does say you
can use capacity.  And it renders.

My only gripe with this tag is the icon.  The same icon is used whether the area has weather
protection (such as a canopy) or not: the icon shows a bench with a roof over it.  Most outdoor
seating areas I've encountered around here are not covered (I believe the situation is the reverse
in some countries) and I find the icon to be very misleading.  Tourism is a big part of the local
economy here, and a tourist planning a trip on a rainy day could end up being unhappy to find
the outdoor seating isn't actually covered.  I raised this with carto who dismissed the idea of
using a different icon where weather_protection=no.

--
Paul

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Re: Variable position

Paul Allen
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 13:49, bkil <bkil.hu+[hidden email]> wrote:
Note that outdoor_seating is usually for customers, so don't forget to add:
access=yes

True, usually it's associated with customers.  But there may be public outdoor seating,
possibly covered.

Also, why not simply use the already established:
shelter=no + covered=no?

Because an uncovered shelter isn't much of a shelter (not in places where it rains a lot).  And
a shelter doesn't necessarily have any seating.

--
Paul


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Re: Variable position

bkil
leisure=outdoor_seating + shelter=no + covered=no

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 3:11 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 13:49, bkil <bkil.hu+[hidden email]> wrote:
Note that outdoor_seating is usually for customers, so don't forget to add:
access=yes

True, usually it's associated with customers.  But there may be public outdoor seating,
possibly covered.

Also, why not simply use the already established:
shelter=no + covered=no?

Because an uncovered shelter isn't much of a shelter (not in places where it rains a lot).  And
a shelter doesn't necessarily have any seating.

--
Paul

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Re: Variable position

Paul Allen
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 14:45, bkil <bkil.hu+[hidden email]> wrote:
leisure=outdoor_seating + shelter=no + covered=no

The wiki for the tag does not offer shelter or covered as associated tags.  Instead it
has weather_protection.

leisure=outdoor_seating seems to do what the OP wanted.  The only quibble I have with
it is the icon, which shows it as being covered irrespective of weather_protection=*.  If
you're a tourist in Cardigan on a day which is hot but it's also raining, you might plan to eat
at the Fusion Bar and Restaurant https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/587710043
because it appears to have covered outdoor seating.  Or at Bara Menyn
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/578156741  Or at El Salsa https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/612581937.   In reality, none of them have any form of weather protection.  Not even
parasols on the tables.

After three disappointments you probably wouldn't bother going to the Cardiff Arms in Cilgerran
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/679041950 because you now know not to trust the icon.
That actually does have weather protection.

--
Paul


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