Re: historic=memorial tagging question

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: historic=memorial tagging question

EthnicFood IsGreat

> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:20:32 +0900
> From: John Willis <[hidden email]>
> To: strategy and related tools Tag discussion
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Tagging] historic=memorial tagging question.
>
>
> How would I map this object?
> https://www.machigururi.com/spot_detail.php?id=3762 <https://www.machigururi.com/spot_detail.php?id=3762>
>
> It is a stone tablet memorializing when a small levee failed and washed away part of a hamlet. This is in the park built on top of the levee repair.
>
>
> these kinds of stone tablets - always a freestanding carved or etched stone (not a plaque attached to a rock), and usually between 50cm and 2m in height, are the most common form of memorial object in Japan (very tall, thin, cut stone tablets anchored in the ground, covered with carved letters - not a memorial=stone). this example is a more modern version, with very little text. older ones are covered with text. though it looks like a headstone or a grave, this is not a common shape for a grave marker in Japan - but for memorial tablets.
>
> interestingly, the sub-tag of historic=memorial, memorial=*,  has a lot of suggested values in iD, including memorial - so memorial=memorial is a commonly tagged value (295 uses)!
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:memorial <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:memorial>
>
> to me, this is a tablet (20 uses), but if this object is better defined by another value, I would be happy to use it.
>
> Javbw
>

I mapped something similar, and in the absence of a better description,
I simply used memorial=marker.

Mark

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: historic=memorial tagging question

John Willis
Thanks, but marker only has seven uses - stele has about 5000.

Also- Marker, to me, would be something you would find in the ground with a number or a pole with a number on it, or something based around a ref number or value of some sort (like a mile marker).

In the US, a "historical landmark" or "marker" is usually a plaque embedded in a pedestal or stone, so it is memorial=plaque, with about 10,000 uses.

^___^

Javbw

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:21 AM, EthnicFood IsGreat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> memorial=marker

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: historic=memorial tagging question

Janko Mihelić
Memorial=* tag is a bit broken at the moment. Its values can be both, what the memorial looks like, and what it commemorates. So the most common value is war_memorial, and that says what it commemorates. Almost all other values say what it looks like, so IMHO, we should stick with the "what it looks like" usage of the tag. Memorial=marker says more about what it commemorates, and very vaguely, so I wouldn't use this one. I read the stele wikipage[1] and that doesn't look right. So in my opinion, we should invent a new value that references freestanding stone plaques. So I have a few suggestions:

memorial=freestanding_plaque
memorial=freestanding_stone
memorial=stone_plaque
memorial=freestanding_stone_plaque

or something like that..

Janko Mihelić




On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 05:49 John Willis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, but marker only has seven uses - stele has about 5000.

Also- Marker, to me, would be something you would find in the ground with a number or a pole with a number on it, or something based around a ref number or value of some sort (like a mile marker).

In the US, a "historical landmark" or "marker" is usually a plaque embedded in a pedestal or stone, so it is memorial=plaque, with about 10,000 uses.

^___^

Javbw

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:21 AM, EthnicFood IsGreat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> memorial=marker

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: historic=memorial tagging question

Peter Elderson
"A stele (/ˈstli/ STEE-lee)[Note 1] is a stone or wooden slab, generally taller than it is wide, erected in the ancient world as a monument. Grave stelae were often used for funerary or commemorative purposes. Stelae as slabs of stone would also be used as ancient Greek and Roman government notices or as boundary markers to mark borders or property lines.

The surface of the stele usually has text, ornamentation, or both. The ornamentation may be inscribed, carved in relief, or painted.

Steles are occasionally erected as memorials to battles. For example, along with other memorials, there are more than half-a-dozen steles erected on the battlefield of Waterloo at the locations of notable actions by participants in battle.[1]"


Free standing slabs of stone with inscription, commemorative, for different purposes. I think it applies perfectly. The stele in the OSM-wiki is a modern variant in wood I think. I have no problem with that.


Op do 18 okt. 2018 om 15:09 schreef Janko Mihelić <[hidden email]>:
Memorial=* tag is a bit broken at the moment. Its values can be both, what the memorial looks like, and what it commemorates. So the most common value is war_memorial, and that says what it commemorates. Almost all other values say what it looks like, so IMHO, we should stick with the "what it looks like" usage of the tag. Memorial=marker says more about what it commemorates, and very vaguely, so I wouldn't use this one. I read the stele wikipage[1] and that doesn't look right. So in my opinion, we should invent a new value that references freestanding stone plaques. So I have a few suggestions:

memorial=freestanding_plaque
memorial=freestanding_stone
memorial=stone_plaque
memorial=freestanding_stone_plaque

or something like that..

Janko Mihelić




On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 05:49 John Willis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, but marker only has seven uses - stele has about 5000.

Also- Marker, to me, would be something you would find in the ground with a number or a pole with a number on it, or something based around a ref number or value of some sort (like a mile marker).

In the US, a "historical landmark" or "marker" is usually a plaque embedded in a pedestal or stone, so it is memorial=plaque, with about 10,000 uses.

^___^

Javbw

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:21 AM, EthnicFood IsGreat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> memorial=marker

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


--
Vr gr Peter Elderson

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: historic=memorial tagging question

EthnicFood IsGreat
In reply to this post by EthnicFood IsGreat

> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:47:47 +0900
> From: John Willis <[hidden email]>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] historic=memorial tagging question
>
>
> Thanks, but marker only has seven uses - stele has about 5000.
>
> Also- Marker, to me, would be something you would find in the ground with a number or a pole with a number on it, or something based around a ref number or value of some sort (like a mile marker).
>
> In the US, a "historical landmark" or "marker" is usually a plaque embedded in a pedestal or stone, so it is memorial=plaque, with about 10,000 uses.
>
> ^___^
>
> Javbw
>
True, but I was reluctant to use "stele" because, according to
Wikipedia, the word usually refers to ancient objects of archaeological
interest.  And I doubt if many people in the US are familiar with that word.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: historic=memorial tagging question

John Willis
We need to update the wiki then, to add further description. There are plenty of tags we use that are uncommon or have incomplete descriptions.

My local temple made an erected a stele as-pictured (similar to the Takasaki one) last year.

I think it's orgins are ancient, but still "in use" in many parts of the world.

Besides the comparison to a grave's headstone, I can't think of any steles I have seen in the US. I assume there are some - but I can't remember seeing any - so it  a simply not a word we are familiar with.

Javbw

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 12:09 AM, EthnicFood IsGreat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And I doubt if many people in the US are familiar with that word.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging