Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

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Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Martijn van Exel-3
Hi all,

I'm new to this list so please bear with me.
The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward'
roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost
column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very
common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are
officially signposted.

There was some discussion in the original relation editor enhancement
ticket: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/5109#comment:42 where
Petr_Dlouhy dismisses support for these member roles.

I want to reopen that discussion and see if there is support for
treating north/south and east/west as first class citizens similar to
forward/backward in the relation editor (and perhaps in other parts,
perhaps the validator and way direction reversing code?).

I am crossposting to talk-us because this discussion is going on there
at the moment.

I would be more than happy to put in some of the work required to
implement this support.

Thanks,
Martijn
--
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http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
http://openstreetmap.us/

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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Florian Lohoff-2
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to this list so please bear with me.
> The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward'
> roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost
> column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very
> common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are
> officially signposted.

I would be very careful in using this. Is this really "south" e.g.
180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ?

Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are
only rough directions.

Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers
to process and interpret data.

Flo
--
Florian Lohoff                                                 [hidden email]

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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Ian Dees
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm new to this list so please bear with me.
> > The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward'
> > roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost
> > column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very
> > common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are
> > officially signposted.
>
> I would be very careful in using this. Is this really "south" e.g.
> 180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ?
>
> Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are
> only rough directions.
>
> Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers
> to process and interpret data.


No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the
road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but
a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing
north:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612
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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Richard Welty-2
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
On 11/26/13 4:51 PM, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are
> only rough directions.
>
> Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers
> to process and interpret data.
>
what Martjin is after is improving the situation for routing
engines that use OSM data. in the US at least, highways,
regardless of their actual direction, are assigned cardinal
directions and signage frequently uses those directions.
the premise is that if the cardinal directions are recorded
in an appropriate manner (e.g., as the roles for ways in
a route relation) then they are available for the spoken
directions from a routing widget of some sort.

richard



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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Simon Legner
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3
Hi!

On 26/11/13 20:30, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> I want to reopen that discussion and see if there is support for
> treating north/south and east/west as first class citizens similar to
> forward/backward in the relation editor (and perhaps in other parts,
> perhaps the validator and way direction reversing code?).

As far as I understand, there's nothing against better supporting
north/south/east/west roles in JOSM. If there's a clear and also
computable interpretation of north/south/east/west for the icons in the
relation editor, please open a ticket and describe, how that should look
like. The same holds for unexpected behaviour of the validator or way
direction reversing code.

To see how those icons in the relation editor are determined at the
moment, you could refer to the class
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/browser/josm/trunk/src/org/openstreetmap/josm/gui/dialogs/relation/sort/WayConnectionTypeCalculator.java

Cheers,
Simon (simon04)

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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Florian Lohoff-2
In reply to this post by Ian Dees
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 03:57:40PM -0600, Ian Dees wrote:
>
> No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the
> road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but
> a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing
> north:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612

So - North would be "straight on", east would be "left", west would be
"right" in 99% of the other countries?

Flo
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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Paul Norman
> From: Florian Lohoff [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and
> east/west similar to forward/backward
>
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 03:57:40PM -0600, Ian Dees wrote:
> >
> > No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the
> > road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west,
> > but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were
> > pointing
> > north:
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612
>
> So - North would be "straight on", east would be "left", west would be
> "right" in 99% of the other countries?

You'd have to ask someone with those other countries. That particular
way is part of the I-94 with role west, and you'd tell someone to get
on the I-94 west, even if they're physically driving north.


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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

SomeoneElse
Paul Norman wrote:
>> No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the
>> road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west,

... in the sense that if you carried on for long enough you'd eventually
end of west of where you started ...

>> but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were
>> pointing
>> north:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612
>> So - North would be "straight on", east would be "left", west would be
>> "right" in 99% of the other countries?
> You'd have to ask someone with those other countries. That particular
> way is part of the I-94 with role west, and you'd tell someone to get
> on the I-94 west, even if they're physically driving north.
>
>

One other place where I've seen bits of roads routinely described and
signed as "West" etc. is the A10 around Amsterdam:

http://www.wegenwiki.nl/A10_%28Nederland%29#Westring

Here "West" means "the part that is west of the city", so (if you're
coming from the north) "the part that is actually going south".

Cheers,

Andy


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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Martijn van Exel-3
In reply to this post by Ian Dees
Yes, sorry for not being clearer. As Ian indicates, this is the
*signposted cardinal direction* of a numbered road route, which does
not change with the actual compass direction of the road. The guiding
principle for the United States is that the odd numbered Interstates
are north/south, and the even numbered Interstates are east/west. This
is independent from the local compass direction. So for example, I-80
is east-west, but runs almost north-south locally (for example here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/203317481) but the sign would
still say 'I-80 East' (or West as the case may be).

So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles
is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward.

Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs
(see example http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg)
this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a
drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role
members.

Hope this clarifies somewhat!
Martijn

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Ian Dees <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I'm new to this list so please bear with me.
>> > The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward'
>> > roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost
>> > column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very
>> > common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are
>> > officially signposted.
>>
>> I would be very careful in using this. Is this really "south" e.g.
>> 180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ?
>>
>> Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are
>> only rough directions.
>>
>> Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers
>> to process and interpret data.
>
>
> No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the road.
> For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but a
> compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing
> north:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612



--
Martijn van Exel
http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
http://openstreetmap.us/

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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Martijn van Exel-3
In reply to this post by SomeoneElse
Good point Andy. We would need to clarify the cardinal direction
member roles on the wiki for specific regions more. I created a stub
of a wiki page that describes proposed (and followed) practice in the
U.S: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Directions_In_The_United_States
- this page is currently a little messy as we're still debating some
of the intricacies. Feel free to help work on it, perhaps we can work
up an international page from this.

Martijn

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:42 PM, SomeoneElse
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Paul Norman wrote:
>>>
>>> No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the
>>> road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west,
>
>
> ... in the sense that if you carried on for long enough you'd eventually end
> of west of where you started ...
>
>>> but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were
>>> pointing
>>> north:
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612
>>> So - North would be "straight on", east would be "left", west would be
>>> "right" in 99% of the other countries?
>>
>> You'd have to ask someone with those other countries. That particular
>> way is part of the I-94 with role west, and you'd tell someone to get
>> on the I-94 west, even if they're physically driving north.
>>
>>
>
> One other place where I've seen bits of roads routinely described and signed
> as "West" etc. is the A10 around Amsterdam:
>
> http://www.wegenwiki.nl/A10_%28Nederland%29#Westring
>
> Here "West" means "the part that is west of the city", so (if you're coming
> from the north) "the part that is actually going south".
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> josm-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev



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Martijn van Exel
http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
http://openstreetmap.us/

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[Talk-us] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

kristenk
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3
Martijn,

I want to make sure I understand what you're trying to convey to the
group. Are you saying that If a way has a member role value of "east"
then east will mean forward and then west (it's opposite) would mean
backward?

Example logic:

** If member role = east, node direction is eastbound would mean
forward and backward would mean 'west'
** If member role = west, node direction is westbound would mean
forward and backward would mean 'east'
** If member role = north, node direction is northbound would mean
forward and backward would mean 'south'
** If member role = south, node direction is southbound would mean
forward and backward would mean 'north'

If the logic I stated above successfully captured with your
suggestion, then I would like to expand on it. Why not just make the
cardinal direction value-forward/backward value relationship a bit
more simpler? I would like to cite Peter Davies' discussion on the
Highway Directions in the US wiki page. He stated that milepoints
increase as highways that trend northward or eastward--say positive
direction. So if one is traveling south or west on a highway, the
milepoints are decreasing--say negative direction.

With this in mind, couldn't we just say that north/east = forward
(forward movement is positive!) and west/south=backward (backward
movement is negative!)? If we're digitizing our edges, the suggestion
would be to set the node direction of two-way, aka single-carriageway
roads, into a positive direction and the member roles values to north
or east. Basically what you did for
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2308411, but setting the
single-carriageway/two-way roads to 'east' instead of 'west'.

Thoughts Martijn? Others??

Best,

Kristen
---

OSM Profile → http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KristenK


-----Original Message-----
From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:47 PM
To: Ian Dees
Cc: Florian Lohoff; OpenStreetMap-Josm MailConf; OSM US Talk
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for
north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Yes, sorry for not being clearer. As Ian indicates, this is the
*signposted cardinal direction* of a numbered road route, which does
not change with the actual compass direction of the road. The guiding
principle for the United States is that the odd numbered Interstates
are north/south, and the even numbered Interstates are east/west. This
is independent from the local compass direction. So for example, I-80
is east-west, but runs almost north-south locally (for example here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/203317481) but the sign would
still say 'I-80 East' (or West as the case may be).

So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles
is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward.

Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs
(see example http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg)
this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a
drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role
members.

Hope this clarifies somewhat!
Martijn

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Ian Dees <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I'm new to this list so please bear with me.
>> > The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward'
>> > roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost
>> > column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very
>> > common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they
>> > are officially signposted.
>>
>> I would be very careful in using this. Is this really "south" e.g.
>> 180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ?
>>
>> Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are
>> only rough directions.
>>
>> Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data
>> Consumers to process and interpret data.
>
>
> No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the road.
> For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but a
> compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were
> pointing
> north:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612



--
Martijn van Exel
http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
http://openstreetmap.us/

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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Florian Lohoff-2
In reply to this post by Martijn van Exel-3
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 03:46:47PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles
> is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward.
>
> Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs
> (see example http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg)
> this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a
> drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role
> members.

I still dont get it - Which relation would need this as a role?

If this is a signposted destination i would expect it in the
destination or destination:lane tag on the road as west e.g.

destination:lanes=West;Los Angeles|East;Boston

For example Mapfactor Navigator will use this to show destinations.

backward/forward as role are in relation to the ways direction. A tag
can either have a meaning in forward or backward or both directions
on a way. There is no way a tag has a meaning in 56° left of the way.

Flo
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Updating Maps wiki page : Invalid wiki message

pierzen
I would like to add the Humanitarion OpenStreetMap layer to the Maps wiki.
But I cannot save the result, adding an entry in the general section. The following message is showed:
Warning: Invalid Wiki page: You are not allowed to change the default entries!


May I do this or do I have to submit to the administrator the entry for this Map entry?



 
Pierre
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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Minh Nguyen-2
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
On 23:12 2013-11-26, Florian Lohoff wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 03:46:47PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles
>> is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward.
>>
>> Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs
>> (see example http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg)
>> this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a
>> drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role
>> members.
>
> I still dont get it - Which relation would need this as a role?
>
> If this is a signposted destination i would expect it in the
> destination or destination:lane tag on the road as west e.g.
>
> destination:lanes=West;Los Angeles|East;Boston
>
> For example Mapfactor Navigator will use this to show destinations.
>
> backward/forward as role are in relation to the ways direction. A tag
> can either have a meaning in forward or backward or both directions
> on a way. There is no way a tag has a meaning in 56° left of the way.

What should destination:lanes be for either exit in this photo?

http://www.interstate-guide.com/images074/i-074_et_09.jpg

The sign for exit 3 could be read "Hopple Street", "eastbound Route 52",
"southbound Route 27", or "southbound Route 127". The cardinal
directions here are not destinations but rather part of the name of the
"side" of the route.

Exit 4 leads to a carriageway that is simultaneously westbound I-74,
westbound US 52, and northbound US 27. Some of us would like to relate
it to an I-74 relation with the role "west" and so on.

--
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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Maarten Deen
On 2013-11-27 11:58, Minh Nguyen wrote:

> On 23:12 2013-11-26, Florian Lohoff wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 03:46:47PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>>> So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles
>>> is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward.
>>>
>>> Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs
>>> (see example
>>> http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg)
>>> this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a
>>> drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role
>>> members.
>>
>> I still dont get it - Which relation would need this as a role?
>>
>> If this is a signposted destination i would expect it in the
>> destination or destination:lane tag on the road as west e.g.
>>
>> destination:lanes=West;Los Angeles|East;Boston
>>
>> For example Mapfactor Navigator will use this to show destinations.
>>
>> backward/forward as role are in relation to the ways direction. A tag
>> can either have a meaning in forward or backward or both directions
>> on a way. There is no way a tag has a meaning in 56° left of the way.
>
> What should destination:lanes be for either exit in this photo?
>
> http://www.interstate-guide.com/images074/i-074_et_09.jpg
>
> The sign for exit 3 could be read "Hopple Street", "eastbound Route
> 52", "southbound Route 27", or "southbound Route 127". The cardinal
> directions here are not destinations but rather part of the name of
> the "side" of the route.
>
> Exit 4 leads to a carriageway that is simultaneously westbound I-74,
> westbound US 52, and northbound US 27. Some of us would like to relate
> it to an I-74 relation with the role "west" and so on.

Where would you want to put this in? In the relation for the I-74? This
exit should not be part of the relation for the I-74.
As Florian said: this needs to be put in destination tags on the way. At
this point there are problaby two ways, one for the through road (which
I believe is I-75?) and one for the exit.
The through road has
destination:lanes=South;Downtown;I-75|South;East;Hopple St;27;127;52 and
the exit has destination:lanes=West;North;Indianapolis;I-74;52;27

I agree with Florian. I do not see the need for north/south/west/east
roles in a relation for this.

Regards,
Maarten




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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

SomeoneElse
In reply to this post by Richard Welty-2
Richard Welty wrote:
> what Martjin is after is improving the situation for routing
> engines that use OSM data. in the US at least, highways,
> regardless of their actual direction, are assigned cardinal
> directions and signage frequently uses those directions.
> the premise is that if the cardinal directions are recorded
> in an appropriate manner (e.g., as the roles for ways in
> a route relation) then they are available for the spoken
> directions from a routing widget of some sort.
>

But surely the role of a way within a relation is a different thing
entirely to the cardinal direction of a relation?

For example, imagine I'm near 2 ways that are both part of the I-80[1].  
For simplicity let's assume that the way that I would take to get to
eastbound destinations actually goes in an eastbound direction at my
location.

If it's important to recognise that there are two signed I-80 routes,
one eastbound and one westbound, shouldn't there actually be two I-80
relations?  The "eastboundness" is really a property of the route,
rather than the individual way.

Now imagine a situation where an imaginary I-80 ran along a non-divided
road for a while.  There'd only be one way, and it'd be part of both
relations.  With normal OSM tagging, the way might have a "forward" role
within the eastbound relation and a "backward" role within the westbound
relation.  The US-style "west" or "east" tagging fails here because the
way would need to have both "west" and "east" roles.

Also, perhaps a list other than josm-dev might be a better forum for
discussing how best to map route relations?

Cheers,

Andy


[1] Example of how a bit of the I-80 is mapped now, for info:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/10473201
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/30411369


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Re: Updating Maps wiki page : Invalid wiki message

Dirk Stöcker
In reply to this post by pierzen
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013, Pierre Béland wrote:

> I would like to add the Humanitarion OpenStreetMap layer to the Maps wiki.
> But I cannot save the result, adding an entry in the general section. The following message is showed:
> Warning: Invalid Wiki page: You are not allowed to change the default entries!
>
> May I do this or do I have to submit to the administrator the entry for this Map entry?

Let me change the error message a bit:

You are not allowed to change the DEFAULT entries!

You can add entries, but not default entries. You
are not allowed to use "<default>true</default>".

Ciao
--
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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Dirk Stöcker
In reply to this post by SomeoneElse
Hello,

this is JOSM development list. Discuss the pro and contra of tagging
elsewhere. Here only software development related issues are discussed.

If north/south,east/west is aused in the US I agree that we should support
it on a technical level if a proper specification is available and useful
and someone implements it.

Ciao
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Re: Updating Maps wiki page : Invalid wiki message

pierzen
In reply to this post by Dirk Stöcker
Thanks Dirk,

the entry is saved now.


 
Pierre



________________________________
 De : Dirk Stöcker <[hidden email]>
À : [hidden email]
Envoyé le : Mercredi 27 novembre 2013 11h51
Objet : Re: [josm-dev] Updating Maps wiki page : Invalid wiki message
 

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013, Pierre Béland wrote:


> I would like to add the Humanitarion OpenStreetMap layer to the Maps wiki.
> But I cannot save the result, adding an entry in the general section. The following message is showed:
> Warning: Invalid Wiki page: You are not allowed to change the default entries!
>
> May I do this or do I have to submit to the administrator the entry for this Map entry?

Let me change the error message a bit:

You are not allowed to change the DEFAULT entries!

You can add entries, but not default entries. You
are not allowed to use "<default>true</default>".

Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)
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Re: Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

Martijn van Exel-3
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
Hi Florian,

It's more like a designation than a destination, so I think the
destination tag would not be very appropriate for this. An Interstate
has a cardinal direction, and when giving directions you would say for
example 'enter Interstate 80 west'.

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Florian Lohoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 03:46:47PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles
>> is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward.
>>
>> Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs
>> (see example http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg)
>> this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a
>> drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role
>> members.
>
> I still dont get it - Which relation would need this as a role?
>
> If this is a signposted destination i would expect it in the
> destination or destination:lane tag on the road as west e.g.
>
> destination:lanes=West;Los Angeles|East;Boston
>
> For example Mapfactor Navigator will use this to show destinations.
>
> backward/forward as role are in relation to the ways direction. A tag
> can either have a meaning in forward or backward or both directions
> on a way. There is no way a tag has a meaning in 56° left of the way.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff                                                 [hidden email]
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--
Martijn van Exel
http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
http://openstreetmap.us/

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