RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

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RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

Mateusz Konieczny-3
with intention of allowing mappers not interested in extreme detail of power networks
to allow ignoring this detail in case of isolation of power lines.

Feedback is highly appreciated. I have little experience with power tagging in OSM.
This proposal is primarily based on tagging scheme issues that I discovered during


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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

Paul Allen
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 10:17 AM Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
with intention of allowing mappers not interested in extreme detail of power networks
to allow ignoring this detail in case of isolation of power lines.

I realize that English is not your first language, but "isolated" is not the word to use.  I'd tell
you a better word but I cannot figure out, from your proposal, what your intent is.

--
Paul


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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

Mateusz Konieczny-3
Thanks! It was intended to be about insulation.


Thanks again!

3. Nov 2018 15:21 by [hidden email]:

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 10:17 AM Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
with intention of allowing mappers not interested in extreme detail of power networks
to allow ignoring this detail in case of isolation of power lines.

I realize that English is not your first language, but "isolated" is not the word to use.  I'd tell
you a better word but I cannot figure out, from your proposal, what your intent is.

--
Paul


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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

Paul Allen
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:34 PM Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks! It was intended to be about insulation.

It now makes a lot more sense.  However, the word "isolated" is present twice in the rationale. 

You probably ought to mention something that was brought up on this list: that some power
lines have a cladding which is not considered to be an electrical insulator.  It is unlikely most
mappers could tell the difference.

Yes, there are insulated cables.  They're present on minor power lines for local distribution (they
run along streets with feeds to houses along the street) near me.  At some points the line
between poles is a single insulated cable and at other points along the same street it switches
to four, physically-separated, uninsulated conductors.  It appears to me that the uninsulated
stretches are older than the insulated ones and that as repairs become necessary they change
to insulated cable.  I suspect that on anything other than this type of local distribution any covering
around the wire is cladding rather than insulation.

For more details (only legally applicable to the UK but is probably indicative of practise in other

--
Paul


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Paul


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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

Warin
On 04/11/18 06:45, Paul Allen wrote:
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:34 PM Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks! It was intended to be about insulation.

It now makes a lot more sense.  However, the word "isolated" is present twice in the rationale. 

You probably ought to mention something that was brought up on this list: that some power
lines have a cladding which is not considered to be an electrical insulator.  It is unlikely most
mappers could tell the difference.

Yes, there are insulated cables.  They're present on minor power lines for local distribution (they
run along streets with feeds to houses along the street) near me.  At some points the line
between poles is a single insulated cable and at other points along the same street it switches
to four, physically-separated, uninsulated conductors.  It appears to me that the uninsulated
stretches are older than the insulated ones and that as repairs become necessary they change
to insulated cable.  I suspect that on anything other than this type of local distribution any covering
around the wire is cladding rather than insulation.

This may be true for local low voltage distribution in your area.

In my residential area low voltage distribution runs insulated from the power pole to the residences, but uninsulated from power pole to power pole.

-----------------
High voltage (10s if not 100s of kilo volts)  run uninsulated here and I'd think that would be true anywhere.






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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

voschix
In the proposal there is a statement:
" it is impossible to check whatever power line is insulated during survey without closely approaching power line"
I thought, that the distinction is very easy; insulated cables don't need insulated suspension. Insulated suspension is very easy to see. Or am I wrong?

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 22:31, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 04/11/18 06:45, Paul Allen wrote:
On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:34 PM Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks! It was intended to be about insulation.

It now makes a lot more sense.  However, the word "isolated" is present twice in the rationale. 

You probably ought to mention something that was brought up on this list: that some power
lines have a cladding which is not considered to be an electrical insulator.  It is unlikely most
mappers could tell the difference.

Yes, there are insulated cables.  They're present on minor power lines for local distribution (they
run along streets with feeds to houses along the street) near me.  At some points the line
between poles is a single insulated cable and at other points along the same street it switches
to four, physically-separated, uninsulated conductors.  It appears to me that the uninsulated
stretches are older than the insulated ones and that as repairs become necessary they change
to insulated cable.  I suspect that on anything other than this type of local distribution any covering
around the wire is cladding rather than insulation.

This may be true for local low voltage distribution in your area.

In my residential area low voltage distribution runs insulated from the power pole to the residences, but uninsulated from power pole to power pole.

-----------------
High voltage (10s if not 100s of kilo volts)  run uninsulated here and I'd think that would be true anywhere.





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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

Mateusz Konieczny-3
Jan 21, 2019, 9:22 AM by [hidden email]:
In the proposal there is a statement:
" it is impossible to check whatever power line is insulated during survey without closely approaching power line"
I thought, that the distinction is very easy; insulated cables don't need insulated suspension. Insulated suspension is very easy to see. Or am I wrong?



(1) insulated suspension is certainly not visible on aerial images
(2) I have no idea what "insulated suspension" is,
googling (using both DuckDuckGo and Google) shows me mostly some bicycle element

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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

Paul Allen
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 20:44, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:

(1) insulated suspension is certainly not visible on aerial images

True.

(2) I have no idea what "insulated suspension" is,
googling (using both DuckDuckGo and Google) shows me mostly some bicycle element

Although I've not encountered that term (and suspect it was intended as a description
rather than a technical term) in context it could only have meant that an insulated
cable does not need to be suspended by insulators whereas an uninsulated wire
(other than an earth wire) MUST be suspended by insulators.

Which is true.  Parts of my town use overhead cables/wires for domestic distribution.  Just
around the corner from me is a place where a five uninsulated wires (which are suspended
on insulators) transitions to an insulated cable (not suspended on insulators).

--
Paul


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Re: RfC - tagging whatever power line is isolated as attribute

François Lacombe-2
In reply to this post by Mateusz Konieczny-3
Hi,

Le mar. 22 janv. 2019 à 21:44, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> a écrit :
(1) insulated suspension is certainly not visible on aerial images
 
According to definitions below, even it's not seen from aerial imagery, insulators can be seen from the ground
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Electricity_pylon_DSCI0402.jpg

(2) I have no idea what "insulated suspension" is,
googling (using both DuckDuckGo and Google) shows me mostly some bicycle element

According to IEC 466-11-09, a suspension clamp is a kind of conductor attachment to a support, usually a tower
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=466-11-09

Those suspension are insulated with bare wires as to prevent the power line to be in touch with the ground through the tower.


Regarding the vote, I proposed a tiny arrangement : rename insulated=yes/no to insulation=yes/no/whatever to be able to use it more often
How about this ?

François

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