Road classification in AUS

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Road classification in AUS

Australia mailing list

Hi all,

My name is Aleksandar Matejevic, I work for Microsoft OSM Editorial team. In order to make the best decision in classifying roads across Australia, I need some help.

In government data and on signposts you can find on mapillary and/or open street cam, you can track route numbers. I found out that routes mostly consist of:

M route – motorways

A route – trunks

B route – primary roads

C route - secondary roads

As long you map in non-urban area this is 99.99% true, but when you map into city area it starts to get confusing.

On this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Australia there is no real explanation how to classify AUS roads in OSM

If you strictly follow this page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway than you should change road classification several times on the same route way.

Therefore I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you change the classification of highway on the motorway route into trunk through the city because it does not have a physical barrier in between (not restricted access) or do you keep it as motorway because of consistency?

2. If we were to change the road classification several times during one route way, should we ignore segments that are less than 3km (for example motorway going through minor city in which it has a quality of trunk)?

3. Can motorway have some traffic signals when passing through city?

4. How to classify State routes (for example in Melbourne)?

 

Best regards,

Aleksandar

 

 

 


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Re: Road classification in AUS

Andrew Harvey-3
Do you have any examples of some of the roads in question? Could you link to those please?

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 00:51, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

My name is Aleksandar Matejevic, I work for Microsoft OSM Editorial team. In order to make the best decision in classifying roads across Australia, I need some help.

In government data and on signposts you can find on mapillary and/or open street cam, you can track route numbers. I found out that routes mostly consist of:

M route – motorways

A route – trunks

B route – primary roads

C route - secondary roads

As long you map in non-urban area this is 99.99% true, but when you map into city area it starts to get confusing.

On this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Australia there is no real explanation how to classify AUS roads in OSM

If you strictly follow this page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway than you should change road classification several times on the same route way.

Therefore I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you change the classification of highway on the motorway route into trunk through the city because it does not have a physical barrier in between (not restricted access) or do you keep it as motorway because of consistency?

2. If we were to change the road classification several times during one route way, should we ignore segments that are less than 3km (for example motorway going through minor city in which it has a quality of trunk)?

3. Can motorway have some traffic signals when passing through city?

4. How to classify State routes (for example in Melbourne)?

 

Best regards,

Aleksandar

 

 

 

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Australia mailing list

Thanks for the reply,

 

I haven't followed Wiki blindly because it can be contradictory sometimes, that's the reason why I'm asking these questions here. Also, I think that gov routes are there to indicate importance of the road and flow of traffic.

 

I would personally wait for couple of more opinions regarding this before reverting suggested road classification. If there are any local mapper for these areas It would be great if they could turn into conversation to give an opinion?

 

Thanks,

Aleksandar

 

 


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Re: Road classification in AUS

Phil Wyatt
I suggest you point Andrew to some areas of concern before any reversions. He is a prolific mapper in Victoria (and many other areas).


Cheers - Phil, 
On the road with his iPad 

On 23 Jul 2019, at 9:12 pm, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks for the reply,

 

I haven't followed Wiki blindly because it can be contradictory sometimes, that's the reason why I'm asking these questions here. Also, I think that gov routes are there to indicate importance of the road and flow of traffic.

 

I would personally wait for couple of more opinions regarding this before reverting suggested road classification. If there are any local mapper for these areas It would be great if they could turn into conversation to give an opinion?

 

Thanks,

Aleksandar

 

 

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Australia mailing list

Disclaimer: I never was in Australia

22 Jul 2019, 16:50 by [hidden email]:

1. Do you change the classification of highway on the motorway route into trunk through the city because it does not have a physical barrier in between (not restricted access) or do you keep it as motorway because of consistency?

Yes, highway=motorway should not appear in roads without even dual
carriageway.

2. If we were to change the road classification several times during one route way, should we ignore segments that are less than 3km (for example motorway going through minor city in which it has a quality of trunk)?

I would change classification, but
it seems dubious to me that it would be a
motorway.

Specific example would be helpful here.

3. Can motorway have some traffic signals when passing through city?

No. Though motorway link
connecting to roads may have traffic
signals.

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Andrew Harvey-3
In reply to this post by Phil Wyatt
me? Actually I myself have done very little mapping in VIC, so don't have the local knowledge there.

It looks like some of these messages have got caught in the mailing list moderator queue. I'll try to forward them on without the embedded images.

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 21:21, Phil Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
I suggest you point Andrew to some areas of concern before any reversions. He is a prolific mapper in Victoria (and many other areas).


Cheers - Phil, 
On the road with his iPad 

On 23 Jul 2019, at 9:12 pm, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks for the reply,

 

I haven't followed Wiki blindly because it can be contradictory sometimes, that's the reason why I'm asking these questions here. Also, I think that gov routes are there to indicate importance of the road and flow of traffic.

 

I would personally wait for couple of more opinions regarding this before reverting suggested road classification. If there are any local mapper for these areas It would be great if they could turn into conversation to give an opinion?

 

Thanks,

Aleksandar

 

 

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Andrew Harvey-3
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Forwarding this email to the list, as it was held in moderation due to the embedded images.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 19:55
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Road classification in AUS
To: Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>


Thanks for the examples.

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 19:27, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) <[hidden email]> wrote: 

Motorway or Trunk: -38.3999033,145.5370408  

 

Follow this Mapillary.  

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-38.39942489999999&lng=145.5372489&z=19.64334424490615&focus=photo&pKey=QjkvLvLb1fNa_SNzVpbcgw 

 

This is [M420], motorway which enters the town. Should the part through the town be mapped as trunk or to keep it as motorway, because when it leaves town it is for sure motorway but in town it does not fulfill the description of motorway, also it has traffic signals. 


According to the OSM wiki highway=motorway is for a controlled access highway, which wikipedia says:

"A controlled-access highway provides an unhindered flow of traffic, with no traffic signalsintersections or property access. They are free of any at-grade crossings with other roads, railways, or pedestrian paths, which are instead carried by overpasses and underpasses. Entrances and exits to the highway are provided at interchanges by slip roads (ramps), which allow for speed changes between the highway and arterials and collector roads. On the controlled-access highway, opposing directions of travel are generally separated by a median strip or central reservation containing a traffic barrier or grass. Elimination of conflicts with other directions of traffic dramatically improves safety[1] and capacity." 

Based on this, the Bass Highway is trunk not a motorway (it has traffic lights, roundabouts, it doesn't provide onramp/offramps), so I think you need to revert your recent tag change to this road, not just for the sections through towns, but for the whole road.

 

Trunk or Primary: -34.8378323, 138.5029666 

We will follow the [A16] route from junction Victoria Road – Nelson Street. These two roads are on the same [A16] route. Victoria Road is mapped as Trunk, but Nelson Street is set as Primary Road. These both roads look almost the same – two separate ways with two or three lanes, no barrier in between: 

 

Nelson Street 

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=kJLW93dqu0t4cM34Al4wtA&lat=-34.83935459862475&lng=138.4998110442043&z=17 

 

Victoria Road 

 

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=fqlFms86fTiE-ODwBcrHhQ&lat=-34.83792630649351&lng=138.50419954805196&z=1.8746717329999287 

 

The only difference is road type (Road vs Street). But, route [A16] then continues in Semaphore Road, which also looks exactly the same as previous two roads, but it is mapped as Primary Road. This street to me also looks as trunk. Part of Semaphore Road which is not on [A16] route is mapped as secondary, but it looks like a primary road. In this case, should Semaphore Road be mapped as trunk – primary, instead of primary – secondary? 


It's not just the physical condition of the road, but also how important that road is from the road network perspective, so generally the more traffic the road gets and the more "important" it is in terms of linking major centres together, then the higher the classification. So in that way, two roads which look the same can have different classification based on their importance in the road network.
 

 

Next case, on [A16] route, Causeway Road is definitely a primary road.  

 

 

https://openstreetcam.org/details/1341011/254/track-info 

 

Further on, [A16] continues to Bower Road, which looks like a trunk road, but it’s mapped as a primary. 

 

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=_jlpimXN_-a17Mt8E92wRg&lat=-34.852086664809406&lng=138.49658016539593&z=17 

 

These all roads are on the same [A16] route. 

 

If we compare what is written here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway with M, A, B, C routes then we find that A route, in most cases, primarily consists of trunks. Putting Causeway Road on a side, all other mentioned roads look the same, but only one of them is mapped as trunk. Should all of them be turned into trunks? If yes, what to do with Causeway Road? Turn it into trunk because of A route or leave it as is? 


I would ignore the A, B, C etc. classification, and instead map based on the road importance within the network. Indeed that's exactly how https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway describes the tag values as different levels of importance within the road network in connecting places.

I wouldn't concern myself too much with what official data says, nor with the ref numbers, instead go with local knowledge of the road importance.


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Re: Road classification in AUS

Ewen Hill
Just an update on Motorways. Australia has very few and most of these are normally mapped correctly already. The Bass Highway in Victoria is not a motorway as a number of roads enter at 90 degrees as well as driveways. There is definitely no motorway through the townships of Cranbourne and Tooradin as well as other towns. This is a Trunk road as it a key route to west Gippsland towns.

The only time you would need to change to a motorway is for upgrades to highways and local knowledge will do that for you.

Thanks for all your edits

Ewen

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 22:07, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
Forwarding this email to the list, as it was held in moderation due to the embedded images.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 19:55
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Road classification in AUS
To: Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>


Thanks for the examples.

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 19:27, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) <[hidden email]> wrote: 

Motorway or Trunk: -38.3999033,145.5370408  

 

Follow this Mapillary.  

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-38.39942489999999&lng=145.5372489&z=19.64334424490615&focus=photo&pKey=QjkvLvLb1fNa_SNzVpbcgw 

 

This is [M420], motorway which enters the town. Should the part through the town be mapped as trunk or to keep it as motorway, because when it leaves town it is for sure motorway but in town it does not fulfill the description of motorway, also it has traffic signals. 


According to the OSM wiki highway=motorway is for a controlled access highway, which wikipedia says:

"A controlled-access highway provides an unhindered flow of traffic, with no traffic signalsintersections or property access. They are free of any at-grade crossings with other roads, railways, or pedestrian paths, which are instead carried by overpasses and underpasses. Entrances and exits to the highway are provided at interchanges by slip roads (ramps), which allow for speed changes between the highway and arterials and collector roads. On the controlled-access highway, opposing directions of travel are generally separated by a median strip or central reservation containing a traffic barrier or grass. Elimination of conflicts with other directions of traffic dramatically improves safety[1] and capacity." 

Based on this, the Bass Highway is trunk not a motorway (it has traffic lights, roundabouts, it doesn't provide onramp/offramps), so I think you need to revert your recent tag change to this road, not just for the sections through towns, but for the whole road.

 

Trunk or Primary: -34.8378323, 138.5029666 

We will follow the [A16] route from junction Victoria Road – Nelson Street. These two roads are on the same [A16] route. Victoria Road is mapped as Trunk, but Nelson Street is set as Primary Road. These both roads look almost the same – two separate ways with two or three lanes, no barrier in between: 

 

Nelson Street 

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=kJLW93dqu0t4cM34Al4wtA&lat=-34.83935459862475&lng=138.4998110442043&z=17 

 

Victoria Road 

 

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=fqlFms86fTiE-ODwBcrHhQ&lat=-34.83792630649351&lng=138.50419954805196&z=1.8746717329999287 

 

The only difference is road type (Road vs Street). But, route [A16] then continues in Semaphore Road, which also looks exactly the same as previous two roads, but it is mapped as Primary Road. This street to me also looks as trunk. Part of Semaphore Road which is not on [A16] route is mapped as secondary, but it looks like a primary road. In this case, should Semaphore Road be mapped as trunk – primary, instead of primary – secondary? 


It's not just the physical condition of the road, but also how important that road is from the road network perspective, so generally the more traffic the road gets and the more "important" it is in terms of linking major centres together, then the higher the classification. So in that way, two roads which look the same can have different classification based on their importance in the road network.
 

 

Next case, on [A16] route, Causeway Road is definitely a primary road.  

 

 

https://openstreetcam.org/details/1341011/254/track-info 

 

Further on, [A16] continues to Bower Road, which looks like a trunk road, but it’s mapped as a primary. 

 

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=_jlpimXN_-a17Mt8E92wRg&lat=-34.852086664809406&lng=138.49658016539593&z=17 

 

These all roads are on the same [A16] route. 

 

If we compare what is written here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway with M, A, B, C routes then we find that A route, in most cases, primarily consists of trunks. Putting Causeway Road on a side, all other mentioned roads look the same, but only one of them is mapped as trunk. Should all of them be turned into trunks? If yes, what to do with Causeway Road? Turn it into trunk because of A route or leave it as is? 


I would ignore the A, B, C etc. classification, and instead map based on the road importance within the network. Indeed that's exactly how https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway describes the tag values as different levels of importance within the road network in connecting places.

I wouldn't concern myself too much with what official data says, nor with the ref numbers, instead go with local knowledge of the road importance.

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--
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Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Sebastian S.
In reply to this post by Australia mailing list
Hi Aleksandar,

Just in case you have not reviewed it, there Is a wiki page Australian tagging guideline https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines

However Regarding your question 1 mayor road classification has always been a no-go for me.
E.g. A8 Pittwater Road, North of Sydney, NSW.

It is an 'A' road according to Wikipedia these As are "primary highways, including urban arterials and interstate or interregional single carriageways."

Now for the most part the A8 has two or more lanes that are separated, however the road is also lined with intersections with red lights, driveways and houses. It is an important and high capacity road.

While the first points to me indicate it should be highway=trunk the last points make me think it should be highway=primary.

As I often find myself in similar dilemmas I tend to not change the classification.

Aside from providing some examples of your cases I ask you what is your driver to look at the road classification and see the need to revise it?

What are the benefits of a road changing between trunk and primary? What does it do for map users and data consumers?

The way I understand your email you refer to major review of the classification and not a fix if a single local point.

Or do you consider the classification of (some) roads that wrong that you can't live with it?

Curious, Sebastian
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 23 July 2019 12:50:19 am AEST, "Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

My name is Aleksandar Matejevic, I work for Microsoft OSM Editorial team. In order to make the best decision in classifying roads across Australia, I need some help.

In government data and on signposts you can find on mapillary and/or open street cam, you can track route numbers. I found out that routes mostly consist of:

M route – motorways

A route – trunks

B route – primary roads

C route - secondary roads

As long you map in non-urban area this is 99.99% true, but when you map into city area it starts to get confusing.

On this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Australia there is no real explanation how to classify AUS roads in OSM

If you strictly follow this page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway than you should change road classification several times on the same route way.

Therefore I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you change the classification of highway on the motorway route into trunk through the city because it does not have a physical barrier in between (not restricted access) or do you keep it as motorway because of consistency?

2. If we were to change the road classification several times during one route way, should we ignore segments that are less than 3km (for example motorway going through minor city in which it has a quality of trunk)?

3. Can motorway have some traffic signals when passing through city?

4. How to classify State routes (for example in Melbourne)?

 

Best regards,

Aleksandar

 

 

 


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Re: Road classification in AUS

Andrew Harvey-3
In reply to this post by Australia mailing list
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 21:12, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks for the reply,

 

I haven't followed Wiki blindly because it can be contradictory sometimes, that's the reason why I'm asking these questions here. Also, I think that gov routes are there to indicate importance of the road and flow of traffic.

 

I would personally wait for couple of more opinions regarding this before reverting suggested road classification. If there are any local mapper for these areas It would be great if they could turn into conversation to give an opinion?


I think we have enough comments here, and documentation on both the highway=motorway and Australian Tagging Gudelines wiki page (that Seb just pointed out) to say that https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/110348897/history and the rest of that road should be reverted, as it's clearly not a highway=motorway.

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Sebastian S.
Am 2019-07-25 23:48, schrieb Andrew Harvey:

> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 21:12, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reply,
>>
>> I haven't followed Wiki blindly because it can be contradictory
>> sometimes, that's the reason why I'm asking these questions here.
>> Also, I think that gov routes are there to indicate importance of
>> the road and flow of traffic.
>>
>> I would personally wait for couple of more opinions regarding this
>> before reverting suggested road classification. If there are any
>> local mapper for these areas It would be great if they could turn
>> into conversation to give an opinion?
>
> I think we have enough comments here, and documentation on both the
> highway=motorway and Australian Tagging Gudelines wiki page (that Seb
> just pointed out) to say that
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/110348897/history and the rest of
> that road should be reverted, as it's clearly not a highway=motorway.


A bit OT but I noticed that the previous version had bicycle=yes. This
is also an an aspect that contradicts my understanding of a highway.
Many major roads, even toll ways have bicycle signage and it seems to be
accepted to use by bike. This is very different from e.g. Germany where
this is forbidden on an Autobahn.

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Warin
In reply to this post by Sebastian S.
On 25/07/19 23:06, Sebastian S. wrote:
Hi Aleksandar,

Just in case you have not reviewed it, there Is a wiki page Australian tagging guideline https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines

However Regarding your question 1 mayor road classification has always been a no-go for me.
E.g. A8 Pittwater Road, North of Sydney, NSW.

It is an 'A' road according to Wikipedia these As are "primary highways, including urban arterials and interstate or interregional single carriageways."

Now for the most part the A8 has two or more lanes that are separated, however the road is also lined with intersections with red lights, driveways and houses. It is an important and high capacity road.

While the first points to me indicate it should be highway=trunk the last points make me think it should be highway=primary.

As I often find myself in similar dilemmas I tend to not change the classification.

For some guidance in NSW the LPI Base Map can be of help.
As an example I use it for tertiary versus unclassified as these tend not to have physical differences but the importance to the local community is the thing that changes them.

Aside from providing some examples of your cases I ask you what is your driver to look at the road classification and see the need to revise it?

What are the benefits of a road changing between trunk and primary? What does it do for map users and data consumers?

I would think that routers will pay some attention to the road classification, assuming the higher one would be preferred for a faster trip (less side entrances, stop etc).

The way I understand your email you refer to major review of the classification and not a fix if a single local point.

Or do you consider the classification of (some) roads that wrong that you can't live with it?

Curious, Sebastian
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 23 July 2019 12:50:19 am AEST, "Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au" [hidden email] wrote:

Hi all,

My name is Aleksandar Matejevic, I work for Microsoft OSM Editorial team. In order to make the best decision in classifying roads across Australia, I need some help.

In government data and on signposts you can find on mapillary and/or open street cam, you can track route numbers. I found out that routes mostly consist of:

M route – motorways

A route – trunks

B route – primary roads

C route - secondary roads

As long you map in non-urban area this is 99.99% true, but when you map into city area it starts to get confusing.

On this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Australia there is no real explanation how to classify AUS roads in OSM

If you strictly follow this page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway than you should change road classification several times on the same route way.

Therefore I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you change the classification of highway on the motorway route into trunk through the city because it does not have a physical barrier in between (not restricted access) or do you keep it as motorway because of consistency?

2. If we were to change the road classification several times during one route way, should we ignore segments that are less than 3km (for example motorway going through minor city in which it has a quality of trunk)?

3. Can motorway have some traffic signals when passing through city?

4. How to classify State routes (for example in Melbourne)?

 

Best regards,

Aleksandar

 

 

 



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Re: Road classification in AUS

Australia mailing list
In reply to this post by Sebastian S.

Like Warin mentioned, you have government data which indicates roads priority. For NSW that is LPI NSW Basemap, for other territories shp of routes. It is not a deal breaker, but it would be nice to unify the data. Warin example for tertiary roads is just one of them but great one, because if you have two parallel streets, mapper can decide which one road is more important than another just because he/she is using it more frequently. This does not mean that it is of greater importance. Government is the one making the roads so they plan flow of traffic to be as best/fast/safe as it can. Therefore, road classification is important.

If you plan to go from point A to point B almost always you want to travel for less time. So, combination of road class, speed limit, road surface, turn restrictions... is very important in this case. This will make other users life easier. I'm not sure why other users are not using attributes/tags like lanes, surface, smoothness, maxspeed, toll and other attributes which would be of great help to figure out what is the capacity of the road.

Yes, of course that I have checked guidelines, like for example 4wd only which is AU specific, etc. but still there is no unique opinion and guideline for this problem. It is up to the eye/opinion of mapper to set right class. Two-three mappers can have different opinions, but if you have 1000 opinions you make most frequent the right one. This is why I asked for more opinions and because you guys helped me to clear this one up, I will revert motorway to trunk.

Still lot of questions remain, and I would like to keep this discussion open so we can make unique decisions.  Government data is not "The Holly Bible" but it sure is a great indicator of road importance.

I really appreciate that you all dig into this one. Thank you very much!

 


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Re: Road classification in AUS

Warin
On 26/07/19 18:11, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au wrote:

Still lot of questions remain,


Keep asking.

Government data is not "The Holly Bible" but it sure is a great indicator of road importance.


It is a guide. 

Better than satellite imagery for things that are too similar in physical features to differentiate. Better than many causal visitors. 




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Re: Road classification in AUS

Andrew Harvey-3
In reply to this post by Australia mailing list
 > I'm not sure why other users are not using attributes/tags like lanes, surface, smoothness, maxspeed, toll and other attributes which would be of great help to figure out what is the capacity of the road.

Do you mean OSM mappers, or downstream consumers of OSM data?

A lot of mappers are adding lane count, toll, and maxspeed. I think if you apply sensible defaults where not tagged (track => unpaved, other roads => paved, 50 km/hr for residential, lanes=2), then we have mapped a lot already, sure there's a lot to go, but we're getting there.

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 18:13, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au <[hidden email]> wrote:

Like Warin mentioned, you have government data which indicates roads priority. For NSW that is LPI NSW Basemap, for other territories shp of routes. It is not a deal breaker, but it would be nice to unify the data. Warin example for tertiary roads is just one of them but great one, because if you have two parallel streets, mapper can decide which one road is more important than another just because he/she is using it more frequently. This does not mean that it is of greater importance. Government is the one making the roads so they plan flow of traffic to be as best/fast/safe as it can. Therefore, road classification is important.

If you plan to go from point A to point B almost always you want to travel for less time. So, combination of road class, speed limit, road surface, turn restrictions... is very important in this case. This will make other users life easier. I'm not sure why other users are not using attributes/tags like lanes, surface, smoothness, maxspeed, toll and other attributes which would be of great help to figure out what is the capacity of the road.

Yes, of course that I have checked guidelines, like for example 4wd only which is AU specific, etc. but still there is no unique opinion and guideline for this problem. It is up to the eye/opinion of mapper to set right class. Two-three mappers can have different opinions, but if you have 1000 opinions you make most frequent the right one. This is why I asked for more opinions and because you guys helped me to clear this one up, I will revert motorway to trunk.

Still lot of questions remain, and I would like to keep this discussion open so we can make unique decisions.  Government data is not "The Holly Bible" but it sure is a great indicator of road importance.

I really appreciate that you all dig into this one. Thank you very much!

 

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Re: Road classification in AUS

Graeme Fitzpatrick


On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 20:55, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think if you apply sensible defaults where not tagged (track => unpaved, other roads => paved, 50 km/hr for residential, lanes=2), then we have mapped a lot already, sure there's a lot to go, but we're getting there.

The subject of defaults, reminds me of something that I've been going to bring up for a while now.

There was discussion on the Tagging list back in May https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-May/045149.html concerning changes being made to road types in Japan https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Japan_tagging/Road_types.

I don't know how, but these changes are apparently only going to effect roads in Japan?

Since then, I've been going to bring it up here as to how we can set up changes / defaults for Oz roads?

As Andrew said ^ - setting highway=residential as a default 50 kph would immediately set the correct speed limit for probably 90% of Australian residential streets!

So if it can be done in Japan, how do we do it?

Thanks

Graeme

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