Road name update challenges

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Road name update challenges

Mike N.
There have been some road name challenge projects which do excellent
work - updating the road network for current changes.  In some cases,
there are now dueling sources, for example a recent change -

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/666170175/history

   (I don't fault any editor involved; they were following best
practices using the best information they had at the time.)

   Here's my interpretation -
1. Original TIGER had Ruppe Dr at a nearby but incorrect location.
2. Updated TIGER caught Ruppe Dr at the correct location, but introduced
a typo when entered: Tuppe instead of Ruppe, and didn't remove or just
move the original Ruppe Dr.
3. All county GIS departments were directed to dump their newest road
data into info2.scdot.org in 2018.
  4. This was used in a challenge project to create the first version of
Ruppe Dr at the correct location.
  5. A second update was applied using older / wrong TIGER data.
Neither noticed the wrong duplicate Ruppe Drive that ran through a house.

   The wrong Tuppe Drive still has a "source" tag which is now misleading.

   We were able to get a local GIS to release data to OSM.  In analyzing
the data, I notice that address tags are much more carefully updated
than road names.   So I could create a local project to correct some
local roads based on corrections from the address data.   I hesitate
because then those changes will be reverted when they don't match TIGER.

  1.)  For global TIGER comparison maps, would it be possible to
substitute more current public statewide data as the reference such as
in SC?

   2.)  Just as if I surveyed the name on a street sign and was able to
confirm it with public records, how would I detect / prevent loss of
work when it mismatches our other public sources for several years?

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Re: Road name update challenges

idnwys

These are all just my opinions, so don't take as fact.  I could be wrong.

 

 

>> 1. Original TIGER had Ruppe Dr at a nearby but incorrect location.

 

This seems a common enough occurrence that a TIGER data should not be used as permanent source.  It's only there to get the map started and adjustments from TIGER are required.

 

>> 2. Updated TIGER caught Ruppe Dr at the correct location, but introduced

a typo when entered: Tuppe instead of Ruppe, and didn't remove or just

move the original Ruppe Dr.

 

If we have verifiable data that Ruppe Drive is correct and Tuppe Drive is wrong, then Ruppe Drive should be used.  I'm not against putting Tuppe Drive in alt_name just in case.

 

>> 5. A second update was applied using older / wrong TIGER data.

Neither noticed the wrong duplicate Ruppe Drive that ran through a house.

 

If newer, verifiable data shows this (obvious from aerial maps taken after the TIGER data, or BOTG survey) then it should be removed.

 

>> The wrong Tuppe Drive still has a "source" tag which is now misleading.

 

It's not really misleading, as that is still where it came from.

 

>> We were able to get a local GIS to release data to OSM.  In analyzing

the data, I notice that address tags are much more carefully updated

than road names.   So I could create a local project to correct some

local roads based on corrections from the address data.   I hesitate

because then those changes will be reverted when they don't match TIGER.

 

Usually, at least around here, addresses have the correct street names.  Street signs are sometimes wrong, especially if it will save a few dollars.  Quite common for older street signs to leave out spaces in the name, leave off the Dr/St/Ave, or leave off East/West/North/South just to save money with a shorter sign.

 

If the correct name includes the shorter name, I only put the correct name.  If it has spaced removed, like River Bend becoming Riverbend, then I put one in alt_name.

 

>> 2.)  Just as if I surveyed the name on a street sign and was able to

confirm it with public records, how would I detect / prevent loss of

work when it mismatches our other public sources for several years?

 

Use the source tag and include a date of the survey.  This won’t directly stop an overwrite, but will at least give a date to compare against.

 

It seems the whole issue stems from an automatic edit without proper integration.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct


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Re: Road name update challenges

Clifford Snow


On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 7:09 AM Aaron Forsythe <[hidden email]> wrote:

These are all just my opinions, so don't take as fact.  I could be wrong.

 

>> We were able to get a local GIS to release data to OSM.  In analyzing

the data, I notice that address tags are much more carefully updated

than road names.   So I could create a local project to correct some

local roads based on corrections from the address data.   I hesitate

because then those changes will be reverted when they don't match TIGER.


Having someone "fix" your edits using bad data is a problem. Two examples come to mind, the first is when someone uses older imagery to align a road. I've even done that to one of my own edits. The second is when a street name is added from local knowledge that is different from TIGER. In both cases, unless the editor is paying attention to the tags, they will likely just change your edit. What I recommend is to watch edits in your area. I recommend Simons's Who Did it.  https://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/ Use the RSS feed to watch edits in your area.

 

Usually, at least around here, addresses have the correct street names.  Street signs are sometimes wrong, especially if it will save a few dollars.  Quite common for older street signs to leave out spaces in the name, leave off the Dr/St/Ave, or leave off East/West/North/South just to save money with a shorter sign.


One caution - when doing a building/address import a few years ago, we discovered errors in the counties address database. They had different street names from address street names. The street names matched the street signs but the addresses had a different street name. These were reported to the county
 

It seems the whole issue stems from an automatic edit without proper integration.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct


I think it's bigger than just automatic edits. People are trying to improve the map, but may be caught up by errors introduced from other systems. 

FYI - here is my authority list, from best to worst. in numerical order.
1. Local, on the ground knowledge
2. City records
3. County records
4. State records. 
99. TIGER

Best,
Clifford
 
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Re: Road name update challenges

Mike N.
In reply to this post by idnwys
On 3/1/2019 10:09 AM, Aaron Forsythe wrote:
>  >> 1. Original TIGER had Ruppe Dr at a nearby but incorrect location.
>
> This seems a common enough occurrence that a TIGER data should not be
> used as permanent source.  It's only there to get the map started and
> adjustments from TIGER are required.

   The "TIGER challenges" began as a way to fill in all the new
subdivisions in areas with no other public data.  It has been very
effective for those areas.   TIGER continues to evolve and improve in
its own way, and is suitable as a reference when there is no better
public data.


>  >> The wrong Tuppe Drive still has a "source" tag which is now misleading.
>
> It's not really misleading, as that is still where it came from.

    Does 'it' refer to the geometry, the current or former name, the
classification as residential (current) or service (previous)?   What if
the road has to be split in the future?

> Use the source tag and include a date of the survey.  This won’t
> directly stop an overwrite, but will at least give a date to compare
> against.
>
> It seems the whole issue stems from an automatic edit without proper
> integration.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct

   I don't see these as automated edits; they are automated detection of
possible places to improve the map.  If the challenges are built with
the latest data, the problem of disagreeing challenges goes away.

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Re: Road name update challenges

Mike N.
In reply to this post by Clifford Snow
On 3/1/2019 12:49 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> One caution - when doing a building/address import a few years ago, we
> discovered errors in the counties address database. They had different
> street names from address street names. The street names matched the
> street signs but the addresses had a different street name. These were
> reported to the county

    Did you find that the addresses tended to be more correct in your
case?   In the few cases I cross checked against a business mailing
address, the address seemed to be correct.

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Re: Road name update challenges

Clifford Snow


On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 5:27 AM Mike N <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 3/1/2019 12:49 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> One caution - when doing a building/address import a few years ago, we
> discovered errors in the counties address database. They had different
> street names from address street names. The street names matched the
> street signs but the addresses had a different street name. These were
> reported to the county

    Did you find that the addresses tended to be more correct in your
case?   In the few cases I cross checked against a business mailing
address, the address seemed to be correct.

Yes - the address are a good indicator of street name. They were found using the JOSM mapcss paint style that colors by the street name.  

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