Road network improvements in South Africa

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Road network improvements in South Africa

South Africa mailing list
Hello OSM Turkey,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is interested in doing some work on the road network in South Africa on OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see frequently? And are there any imagery sources you'd recommend, any specific highway classification guidelines you recommend such as the general OSM guidelines or maybe the Highway Tag Africa guidelines, or anything else that might help? 

We have a Github page here about the project: https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/142

Thank you,

Andrew

Apple, Inc.



Andrew Wiseman |
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Re: Road network improvements in South Africa

South Africa mailing list
Oops, that’s OSM South Africa of course.

Andrew

On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ZA <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello OSM Turkey,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is interested in doing some work on the road network in South Africa on OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see frequently? And are there any imagery sources you'd recommend, any specific highway classification guidelines you recommend such as the general OSM guidelines or maybe the Highway Tag Africa guidelines, or anything else that might help? 

We have a Github page here about the project: https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/142

Thank you,

Andrew

Apple, Inc.



Andrew Wiseman |
  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | [hidden email]

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Re: Road network improvements in South Africa

Gerhardus Geldenhuis
In reply to this post by South Africa mailing list
The CD:NGI imagery is the official imagery but currently a bit out of date. In places Bing should be more up to date and for some locations like Cape Town I believe more detailed imagery is available.

The biggest "missing" thing that I have personally experienced is lack of speed restrictions and lane information on bigger roads ( highways ) not being properly mapped. So it would be tagged as a high way but would not contain information about 2 lanes or 3 lanes and offramps/onramps can sometimes be inaccurate. 

In cities the speed limit is 60km/h unless indicated otherwise as being 40 or 50km/h. On highways the speed restriction is 120km/h and on rural roads 80km/h unless indicated to be 100km/h

There is also a lot of missing road names.

Regards

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 21:24, Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ZA <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello OSM Turkey,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is interested in doing some work on the road network in South Africa on OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see frequently? And are there any imagery sources you'd recommend, any specific highway classification guidelines you recommend such as the general OSM guidelines or maybe the Highway Tag Africa guidelines, or anything else that might help? 

We have a Github page here about the project: https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/142

Thank you,

Andrew

Apple, Inc.



Andrew Wiseman |
  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | [hidden email]

_______________________________________________
Talk-ZA mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za


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Gerhardus Geldenhuis

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Re: Road network improvements in South Africa

Gerhardus Geldenhuis
In reply to this post by South Africa mailing list
The other worthwhile thing to double check is alignment. I have seen that it can sometimes be of especially for roads mapped very early on in OSMs existence. The resolution of curves can sometimes be a bit low which does not make for the smoothest of curves and would be another useful bit to improve.

Regards

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 21:24, Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ZA <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello OSM Turkey,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is interested in doing some work on the road network in South Africa on OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see frequently? And are there any imagery sources you'd recommend, any specific highway classification guidelines you recommend such as the general OSM guidelines or maybe the Highway Tag Africa guidelines, or anything else that might help? 

We have a Github page here about the project: https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/142

Thank you,

Andrew

Apple, Inc.



Andrew Wiseman |
  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | [hidden email]

_______________________________________________
Talk-ZA mailing list
[hidden email]
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Gerhardus Geldenhuis

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Re: Road network improvements in South Africa

Kieron Thwaites
In reply to this post by Gerhardus Geldenhuis
The biggest issues that I've encountered are:
  • As Gerhardus mentioned, lack of speed restrictions and lane information on bigger roads.  This is where the bulk of my edits happens (and I use OSM data for routing out in the field purely to pick up areas where things could be improved), but like all of us, there's only so much time that we can spend mapping!
  • Lack of destination tags, which I've found invaluable for people using OSM data in GPS applications.  I think the main reason why these tend to be absent is that it requires a lot of effort to go out and physically survey (it's impossible to get that information via satellite imagery) and sometimes just as much effort to tag properly (especially once you start adding information about different destinations per lane, the various symbols that one can encounter on road signs, etc).  Plus, you don't see this information on map renders, it's only when you're navigating using OSM data that it becomes useful (but like I mentioned, extremely useful!).  For those interested in helping out here, this guide is pretty much my reference on how to do destination tagging (and even then, I still get it wrong some of the time!)
  • Curve resolution.  Some early traces from low resolution imagery have pretty terrible curve resolution.  Again, it's something that I've spent a lot of effort improving in places (see: N2 between Caledon and Swellendam, the entire Western Cape section of the N9, N12 through Meiringspoort).  Again, low-resolution curves are very noticeable when using OSM data for GPS navigation.
  • Also, I've noticed (particularly in KZN) that some administrative road references that aren't signed on the ground (e.g. the Pxxx route numbers) appear either in name=* or ref=* tags, where official_ref=* is probably a more appropriate place for them.
  • Finally, lack of road surface data.  I've lost count of how often routers believe that the quickest route between two places is along a dodgy unpaved road simply because the road surface in question hasn't been tagged at all...
--K

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 10:42, Gerhardus Geldenhuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
The CD:NGI imagery is the official imagery but currently a bit out of date. In places Bing should be more up to date and for some locations like Cape Town I believe more detailed imagery is available.

The biggest "missing" thing that I have personally experienced is lack of speed restrictions and lane information on bigger roads ( highways ) not being properly mapped. So it would be tagged as a high way but would not contain information about 2 lanes or 3 lanes and offramps/onramps can sometimes be inaccurate. 

In cities the speed limit is 60km/h unless indicated otherwise as being 40 or 50km/h. On highways the speed restriction is 120km/h and on rural roads 80km/h unless indicated to be 100km/h

There is also a lot of missing road names.

Regards

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 21:24, Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ZA <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello OSM Turkey,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is interested in doing some work on the road network in South Africa on OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see frequently? And are there any imagery sources you'd recommend, any specific highway classification guidelines you recommend such as the general OSM guidelines or maybe the Highway Tag Africa guidelines, or anything else that might help? 

We have a Github page here about the project: https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/142

Thank you,

Andrew

Apple, Inc.



Andrew Wiseman |
  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | [hidden email]

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[hidden email]
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Gerhardus Geldenhuis
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[hidden email]
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Re: Road network improvements in South Africa

Kieron Thwaites
Oh, I only noticed now that you also asked about road classification: OSM-ZA has its own road classification guidelines that you can find here.

That said, it's not always possible to follow them strictly: especially in KZN where quite a few roads aren't numbered at all, and it quite often becomes a bit of a judgement call in some cases.

--K

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 11:08, Kieron Thwaites <[hidden email]> wrote:
The biggest issues that I've encountered are:
  • As Gerhardus mentioned, lack of speed restrictions and lane information on bigger roads.  This is where the bulk of my edits happens (and I use OSM data for routing out in the field purely to pick up areas where things could be improved), but like all of us, there's only so much time that we can spend mapping!
  • Lack of destination tags, which I've found invaluable for people using OSM data in GPS applications.  I think the main reason why these tend to be absent is that it requires a lot of effort to go out and physically survey (it's impossible to get that information via satellite imagery) and sometimes just as much effort to tag properly (especially once you start adding information about different destinations per lane, the various symbols that one can encounter on road signs, etc).  Plus, you don't see this information on map renders, it's only when you're navigating using OSM data that it becomes useful (but like I mentioned, extremely useful!).  For those interested in helping out here, this guide is pretty much my reference on how to do destination tagging (and even then, I still get it wrong some of the time!)
  • Curve resolution.  Some early traces from low resolution imagery have pretty terrible curve resolution.  Again, it's something that I've spent a lot of effort improving in places (see: N2 between Caledon and Swellendam, the entire Western Cape section of the N9, N12 through Meiringspoort).  Again, low-resolution curves are very noticeable when using OSM data for GPS navigation.
  • Also, I've noticed (particularly in KZN) that some administrative road references that aren't signed on the ground (e.g. the Pxxx route numbers) appear either in name=* or ref=* tags, where official_ref=* is probably a more appropriate place for them.
  • Finally, lack of road surface data.  I've lost count of how often routers believe that the quickest route between two places is along a dodgy unpaved road simply because the road surface in question hasn't been tagged at all...
--K

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 10:42, Gerhardus Geldenhuis <[hidden email]> wrote:
The CD:NGI imagery is the official imagery but currently a bit out of date. In places Bing should be more up to date and for some locations like Cape Town I believe more detailed imagery is available.

The biggest "missing" thing that I have personally experienced is lack of speed restrictions and lane information on bigger roads ( highways ) not being properly mapped. So it would be tagged as a high way but would not contain information about 2 lanes or 3 lanes and offramps/onramps can sometimes be inaccurate. 

In cities the speed limit is 60km/h unless indicated otherwise as being 40 or 50km/h. On highways the speed restriction is 120km/h and on rural roads 80km/h unless indicated to be 100km/h

There is also a lot of missing road names.

Regards

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 21:24, Andrew Wiseman via Talk-ZA <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello OSM Turkey,

My name is Andrew Wiseman, I work for Apple on the Maps team. My team is interested in doing some work on the road network in South Africa on OpenStreetMap, things like adding missing roads, making sure roads connect properly, fixing incorrect alignments with GPS traces, ensuring road classifications are consistent, and other similar issues.

Are there places you know of that need improvement or types of problems you see frequently? And are there any imagery sources you'd recommend, any specific highway classification guidelines you recommend such as the general OSM guidelines or maybe the Highway Tag Africa guidelines, or anything else that might help? 

We have a Github page here about the project: https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/142

Thank you,

Andrew

Apple, Inc.



Andrew Wiseman |
  Maps | iPhone: +1.202.270.4464 | [hidden email]

_______________________________________________
Talk-ZA mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za


--
Gerhardus Geldenhuis
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za