Road numbers in Garmin

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Road numbers in Garmin

Diego Molla Aliod
[Some time ago I sent a similar email from a different email address
and I think it never made it to the group]

In a recent trip I was comparing Shonkymaps and OSM on my Garmin GPSr
and I saw that Shonkymaps displays a floating icon with the road
number for major roads. I thought this was cool, and easier to read
the road numbers. Here'e a screen-shot from the Shonkymaps site:

http://shonkylogic.net/shonkymaps/images/SANY1373.JPG

Does anybody know if this can be done with OSM as well? I looked at
the documentation on how to render OSM in Garmin but didn't see
anything about road numbers.

Diego

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Diego MOLLA ALIOD                                 [hidden email]
Department of Computing               http://www.ics.mq.edu.au/~diego
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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Liz
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Diego Molla wrote:

> [Some time ago I sent a similar email from a different email address
> and I think it never made it to the group]
>
> In a recent trip I was comparing Shonkymaps and OSM on my Garmin GPSr
> and I saw that Shonkymaps displays a floating icon with the road
> number for major roads. I thought this was cool, and easier to read
> the road numbers. Here'e a screen-shot from the Shonkymaps site:
>
> http://shonkylogic.net/shonkymaps/images/SANY1373.JPG
>
> Does anybody know if this can be done with OSM as well? I looked at
> the documentation on how to render OSM in Garmin but didn't see
> anything about road numbers.
>
> Diego

this reminds me of a problem with OSM road numbers - inconsistency

viewing the Sturt Highway which goes through three states

A20, 20, NH20, 20, A20, NH20 apparently randomly and not related to where the
state borders are

NH20 particularly bothers me.
Nowhere on the Sturt is there a current sign which says NH20.
It's 20 or A20 according to the state boundaries.

I'm sure others can point out great inconsistencies with other highways.
Can we decide what labels to put on the roads?

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Ben Kelley-4


On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:
NH20 particularly bothers me.
Nowhere on the Sturt is there a current sign which says NH20.
It's 20 or A20 according to the state boundaries.

I'm sure others can point out great inconsistencies with other highways.
Can we decide what labels to put on the roads?


NH is national highway. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Route_Numbers

In my experience these guidelines are only partly followed.

I suspect showing them on the Garmin maps is a function of the software used to generate the maps. None of the OSM-based maps I have seen have them. I think it would be a really useful addition though.

 - Ben.


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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Liz
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Ben Kelley wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > NH20 particularly bothers me.
> > Nowhere on the Sturt is there a current sign which says NH20.
> > It's 20 or A20 according to the state boundaries.
> >
> > I'm sure others can point out great inconsistencies with other highways.
> > Can we decide what labels to put on the roads?
>
> NH is national highway. See
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Route
>_Numbers
>
> In my experience these guidelines are only partly followed.
>
> I suspect showing them on the Garmin maps is a function of the software
> used to generate the maps. None of the OSM-based maps I have seen have
> them. I think it would be a really useful addition though.
>
>  - Ben.



Sure NH is National Highway, but this is not consistent with the current
signs, and the labelling itself is randomised.

A NSW current sign says 20, in yellow inside a yellow bordered shield on a
green background
A Vic sign has A20 and I can't check further as I seem not to have
photographed one this month
A SA sign has A20 as above with a small National in the shield


Nothing says NHxx on the Sturt Highway; but some mappers put NHxx down.
Can they justify this terminology on the basis of recent signage?

sample of highway markers - Mildura
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.1939&lon=142.1734&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF
sample of highway markers - Renmark
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.2052&lon=140.7778&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF
sample of highway markers - Gepps Cross, Adelaide
NHA1, A1, NHA20, A20, NHA16 and A16 all in one small area.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.8242&lon=138.6039&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Liz
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
> sample of highway markers - Mildura
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.1939&lon=142.1734&zoom=12&layers=B000
>FTF sample of highway markers - Renmark
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.2052&lon=140.7778&zoom=12&layers=B000
>FTF sample of highway markers - Gepps Cross, Adelaide
> NHA1, A1, NHA20, A20, NHA16 and A16 all in one small area.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.8242&lon=138.6039&zoom=13&layers=B000
>FTF

In my haste I've missed this one at the Eastern end of the Sturt, now labelled
NR20

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-35.1834&lon=147.6963&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Darrin Smith
In reply to this post by Liz
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:53:23 +1100
Elizabeth Dodd <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nothing says NHxx on the Sturt Highway; but some mappers put NHxx
> down. Can they justify this terminology on the basis of recent
> signage?
>
> sample of highway markers - Mildura
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.1939&lon=142.1734&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF
> sample of highway markers - Renmark
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.2052&lon=140.7778&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF
> sample of highway markers - Gepps Cross, Adelaide
> NHA1, A1, NHA20, A20, NHA16 and A16 all in one small area.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.8242&lon=138.6039&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF

I used NHA20, NHA1 and NHA16 to all refer to the Shields with
'National' on across the top to correlate with the remaing 'National'
Routes being labelled NH20 in the rest of the country. I can tell you
that apart from the Issue of whether NH is approriate for those signs
(N could also be I guess). The area around Gepps Cross is completely
accurate with the signging in the area. The roads maked 'NHxx' all have
'National' Across the top of the shield in those areas. NSW has chosen
to remove all Nationals from what I see online, but SA so far seems to
be keeping them and even new signage is still getting "National".

Hope that makes things a little less murky for you.

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=b

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Liz
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Darrin Smith wrote:

> I used NHA20, NHA1 and NHA16 to all refer to the Shields with
> 'National' on across the top to correlate with the remaing 'National'
> Routes being labelled NH20 in the rest of the country. I can tell you
> that apart from the Issue of whether NH is approriate for those signs
> (N could also be I guess). The area around Gepps Cross is completely
> accurate with the signging in the area. The roads maked 'NHxx' all have
> 'National' Across the top of the shield in those areas. NSW has chosen
> to remove all Nationals from what I see online, but SA so far seems to
> be keeping them and even new signage is still getting "National".
>
> Hope that makes things a little less murky for you.

my real problem is that the labelling is inconsistent.
for example the Sturt in Mildura  goes A20 NH20 A20 in a short distance.

I don't agree with putting NR20 or NH20 because that isn't what is on a sign,
but that's not the main point... I'd like the labels to be the same for the
section of the road in a single State.


I note that someone labelled the Western end of the Mid Western highway at Hay
with NR24 or summat similar, but the sign at Hay says B64 - exactly as this
sign http://ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/223.jpg shows. That photograph was
taken in Dec, and the signs looked the same in May when I last went there to
work for a few days.

While the inconsistency of the NSW RTA is a hurdle in getting correct route
designations, mappers need to to record what is there on the ground / signs.
Putting NR24 at that point strongly suggests a copyright violation - that
someone has got this info from a copyright source.

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Darrin Smith
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:57:40 +1100
Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Darrin Smith wrote:
> > I used NHA20, NHA1 and NHA16 to all refer to the Shields with
> > 'National' on across the top to correlate with the remaing
> > 'National' Routes being labelled NH20 in the rest of the country. I
> > can tell you that apart from the Issue of whether NH is approriate
> > for those signs (N could also be I guess). The area around Gepps
> > Cross is completely accurate with the signging in the area. The
> > roads maked 'NHxx' all have 'National' Across the top of the shield
> > in those areas. NSW has chosen to remove all Nationals from what I
> > see online, but SA so far seems to be keeping them and even new
> > signage is still getting "National".
> >
> > Hope that makes things a little less murky for you.
>
> my real problem is that the labelling is inconsistent.
> for example the Sturt in Mildura  goes A20 NH20 A20 in a short
> distance.

Well this is 'Open' Street Map ;) If you know what's there is wrong
from observation, fix it... or have you and someone keeps changing it
back, not THAT is definitely call for complaint.
 
> I don't agree with putting NR20 or NH20 because that isn't what is on
> a sign, but that's not the main point... I'd like the labels to be
> the same for the section of the road in a single State.

But not all sections of the road in one state have the same code (Sturt
Highway being exactly the case in point, it is NOT National A20 for the
last ~5km between Gepps Cross and Pooraka. I don't know about the case
around Mildura so I can't comment there. I can defintely give more
examples in Adelaide, Grand Junction Road IS signed A16 at each end and
'National' A16 in the middle.

As to the NR/NH thing, what would you suggest (for the few states with
these signs remaing, WA in particular which appears will be having them
for a while) to distinguish between the 3 types of shields that exist?

> I note that someone labelled the Western end of the Mid Western
> highway at Hay with NR24 or summat similar, but the sign at Hay says
> B64 - exactly as this sign
> http://ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/223.jpg shows. That photograph
> was taken in Dec, and the signs looked the same in May when I last
> went there to work for a few days.
>
> While the inconsistency of the NSW RTA is a hurdle in getting correct
> route designations, mappers need to to record what is there on the
> ground / signs. Putting NR24 at that point strongly suggests a
> copyright violation - that someone has got this info from a copyright
> source.

How old is the data there? From that site (and no doubt your travelling
around) you know the MABC is only now starting to make inroads into
NSW, perhaps the data was added before the B64 sign crops up? I know
there are a quite a few roads around Adelaide (especially in the
southern suburbs) that date back several years without an edit....
Of course, if it's a newer edit, especially if it's a change from the
correct data, string 'em up ;)

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Liz
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Darrin Smith wrote:
> But not all sections of the road in one state have the same code (Sturt
> Highway being exactly the case in point, it is NOT National A20 for the
> last ~5km between Gepps Cross and Pooraka. I don't know about the case
> around Mildura so I can't comment there. I can defintely give more
> examples in Adelaide, Grand Junction Road IS signed A16 at each end and
> 'National' A16 in the middle.

so you have crazy bureaucrats too?

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Liz
In reply to this post by Darrin Smith
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Darrin Smith wrote:
> Of course, if it's a newer edit, especially if it's a change from the
> correct data, string 'em up

that's what it is, because I did a lot of Hay in May
Or was that made Hay in May?
Liz

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Darrin Smith
In reply to this post by Liz
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:03:42 +1100
Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Darrin Smith wrote:
> > But not all sections of the road in one state have the same code
> > (Sturt Highway being exactly the case in point, it is NOT National
> > A20 for the last ~5km between Gepps Cross and Pooraka. I don't know
> > about the case around Mildura so I can't comment there. I can
> > defintely give more examples in Adelaide, Grand Junction Road IS
> > signed A16 at each end and 'National' A16 in the middle.
>
> so you have crazy bureaucrats too?

Yup, I think they make it everywhere, like cockroaches.. :)

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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

Sean-118
In reply to this post by Diego Molla Aliod
G'Day Diego

I see your post has been hijack and gone off in another direction.  It
should have made as a new thread guys.  Anyway to answer your question
the answer is yes.  People are adding this data when they map out these
roads so it is there.  It is just a matter of telling the compiler to
add it in.  If your making them yourself you will have to give a bit
more info on how you are making them.  If your downloading them from a
site just shoot off a email to site owner.  Ask them if they can add
them in.

Sean


Diego Molla dmollaaliod-at-gmail.com |OSM list| wrote:

> [Some time ago I sent a similar email from a different email address
> and I think it never made it to the group]
>
> In a recent trip I was comparing Shonkymaps and OSM on my Garmin GPSr
> and I saw that Shonkymaps displays a floating icon with the road
> number for major roads. I thought this was cool, and easier to read
> the road numbers. Here'e a screen-shot from the Shonkymaps site:
>
> http://shonkylogic.net/shonkymaps/images/SANY1373.JPG
>
> Does anybody know if this can be done with OSM as well? I looked at
> the documentation on how to render OSM in Garmin but didn't see
> anything about road numbers.
>
> Diego
>
>  


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Re: Road numbers in Garmin

James Andrewartha-4
In reply to this post by Liz
On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 20:53 +1100, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Ben Kelley wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > NH20 particularly bothers me.
> > > Nowhere on the Sturt is there a current sign which says NH20.
> > > It's 20 or A20 according to the state boundaries.
> > >
> > > I'm sure others can point out great inconsistencies with other highways.
> > > Can we decide what labels to put on the roads?
> >
> > NH is national highway. See
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Route
> >_Numbers
> >
> > In my experience these guidelines are only partly followed.
> >
> > I suspect showing them on the Garmin maps is a function of the software
> > used to generate the maps. None of the OSM-based maps I have seen have
> > them. I think it would be a really useful addition though.
>
> Sure NH is National Highway, but this is not consistent with the current
> signs, and the labelling itself is randomised.
>
> A NSW current sign says 20, in yellow inside a yellow bordered shield on a
> green background
> A Vic sign has A20 and I can't check further as I seem not to have
> photographed one this month
> A SA sign has A20 as above with a small National in the shield
>
> Nothing says NHxx on the Sturt Highway; but some mappers put NHxx down.
> Can they justify this terminology on the basis of recent signage?

NHxx isn't supposed to be read by humans - the renderers should read
that and realise they need to draw xx in yellow on a yellow bordered
shield with a green background.

James Andrewartha


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