Shared Zones

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Shared Zones

Andrew Harvey-3
There's a discussion on the tagging list[1] about how to map shared zones[2] in Australia. The consensus is to use highway=living_street[3]. Please voice any comments you have on the tagging discussion, otherwise I'll update the wiki for highway=living_street and the Australian Tagging Guidelines.


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Re: Shared Zones

Ian Sergeant-2
I don't see any reason to update the Australian tagging guidelines.
There are no Australia specific arguments being made, or even
Australian contributors to the discussion (apart from you).

If that's the way that OSM moves, then let the general wiki get
updated accordingly.  Don't see any need to single out Australia.

Personally, we see shared-zones used in Australia for lots of purposes
other than shared spaces.  For example, de-facto pedestrian crossings
out the front of stations.   I think we should leave people surveying
to tag them as they see them, and the maxspeed and access tags may
sometimes be more appropriate if it's a crossing space.

Ian.




On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 at 09:29, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> There's a discussion on the tagging list[1] about how to map shared zones[2] in Australia. The consensus is to use highway=living_street[3]. Please voice any comments you have on the tagging discussion, otherwise I'll update the wiki for highway=living_street and the Australian Tagging Guidelines.
>
> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-July/037820.html
> [2] http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/downloads/shared_zone_fact_sheet.pdf
> [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=living_street
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

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Re: Shared Zones

Warin
Disagree .. Australian 'shared zone' does not appear on the OSM wiki ..
there should be some reference to it being a 'living_street' in OSM terms.
Perhaps it can go as well on the 'living_street' page as there is
already a German equivalent statement there.

On 17/07/18 17:38, Ian Sergeant wrote:

> I don't see any reason to update the Australian tagging guidelines.
> There are no Australia specific arguments being made, or even
> Australian contributors to the discussion (apart from you).
>
> If that's the way that OSM moves, then let the general wiki get
> updated accordingly.  Don't see any need to single out Australia.
>
> Personally, we see shared-zones used in Australia for lots of purposes
> other than shared spaces.  For example, de-facto pedestrian crossings
> out the front of stations.   I think we should leave people surveying
> to tag them as they see them, and the maxspeed and access tags may
> sometimes be more appropriate if it's a crossing space.
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 at 09:29, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> There's a discussion on the tagging list[1] about how to map shared zones[2] in Australia. The consensus is to use highway=living_street[3]. Please voice any comments you have on the tagging discussion, otherwise I'll update the wiki for highway=living_street and the Australian Tagging Guidelines.
>>
>> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-July/037820.html
>> [2] http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/downloads/shared_zone_fact_sheet.pdf
>> [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=living_street
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au



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Re: Shared Zones

Ian Sergeant-2
Which part do you disagree with?

Do you disagree with me that there has been no specific Australian
arguments made on the referenced discussion?    Because I looked
through the thread, and I couldn't see any except for Andrew's post
(which didn't support the proposal, btw).  Did I miss something?

If you disagree with my personal view on shared zones, I'm happy to
hear your argument (which you haven't presented).  I don't have an
immutable view.

Ian.


On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 at 17:55, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Disagree .. Australian 'shared zone' does not appear on the OSM wiki ..
> there should be some reference to it being a 'living_street' in OSM terms.
> Perhaps it can go as well on the 'living_street' page as there is
> already a German equivalent statement there.
>
> On 17/07/18 17:38, Ian Sergeant wrote:
> > I don't see any reason to update the Australian tagging guidelines.
> > There are no Australia specific arguments being made, or even
> > Australian contributors to the discussion (apart from you).
> >
> > If that's the way that OSM moves, then let the general wiki get
> > updated accordingly.  Don't see any need to single out Australia.
> >
> > Personally, we see shared-zones used in Australia for lots of purposes
> > other than shared spaces.  For example, de-facto pedestrian crossings
> > out the front of stations.   I think we should leave people surveying
> > to tag them as they see them, and the maxspeed and access tags may
> > sometimes be more appropriate if it's a crossing space.
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 at 09:29, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> There's a discussion on the tagging list[1] about how to map shared zones[2] in Australia. The consensus is to use highway=living_street[3]. Please voice any comments you have on the tagging discussion, otherwise I'll update the wiki for highway=living_street and the Australian Tagging Guidelines.
> >>
> >> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-July/037820.html
> >> [2] http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/downloads/shared_zone_fact_sheet.pdf
> >> [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=living_street
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Talk-au mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-au mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Shared Zones

Graeme Fitzpatrick
The only shared zones that I can think of off the top of the head (although I know there are more) are out the front of Bunnings & all the internal roads at Griffith Uni, neither of which really strike me as a "living street"?

Not too sure what else you'd call them though?


>
> Disagree .. Australian 'shared zone' does not appear on the OSM wiki ..
> there should be some reference to it being a 'living_street' in OSM terms.
> Perhaps it can go as well on the 'living_street' page as there is
> already a German equivalent statement there.
>

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Re: Shared Zones

Andrew Harvey-3
> I don't see any reason to update the Australian tagging guidelines.
There are no Australia specific arguments being made, or even
Australian contributors to the discussion (apart from you).
> If that's the way that OSM moves, then let the general wiki get
updated accordingly.  Don't see any need to single out Australia.

Oh I thought the Australian Tagging Guidelines were a document an Australian could read and learn about all the tags for local features in the local context and terminology. eg. Here's how to tag a school zone.

> Personally, we see shared-zones used in Australia for lots of purposes
other than shared spaces.  For example, de-facto pedestrian crossings
out the front of stations.   I think we should leave people surveying
to tag them as they see them, and the maxspeed and access tags may
sometimes be more appropriate if it's a crossing space.

Okay so I guess we still need to use some local judgement?

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Re: Shared Zones

Andrew Davidson-3
On 18/07/18 16:12, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
> Okay so I guess we still need to use some local judgement?

I thought we were discussing shared zones here? They are clearly sign
posted so I wouldn't have thought that there would be a problem
identifying them.

I'm happy to have them tagged as living_street(s) as they do have most
of the characteristics of European types.

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Re: Shared Zones

Warin
On 18/07/18 16:40, Andrew Davidson wrote:

> On 18/07/18 16:12, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>> Okay so I guess we still need to use some local judgement?
>
> I thought we were discussing shared zones here? They are clearly sign
> posted so I wouldn't have thought that there would be a problem
> identifying them.
>
> I'm happy to have them tagged as living_street(s) as they do have most
> of the characteristics of European types.

The problem is that the mapper sees 'shared street' and does not know
how to map that in OSM speak .. that is where the Australian guide lines
help
to translate OZie into OSM ...
or to give hints for international phone numbers to use in OSM .. we
don't get much practice at that unlike the Europeans.

For detailing what a 'shared street' is for OSM then the living street
page has a table where the Australian peculiarities can be stated.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dliving_street#National_specialities


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Re: Shared Zones

Andrew Harvey-3
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Re: Shared Zones

Ian Sergeant-2
In reply to this post by Andrew Harvey-3
On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 at 16:13, Andrew Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh I thought the Australian Tagging Guidelines were a document an Australian could read and learn about all the tags for local features in the local context and terminology. eg. Here's how to tag a school zone.

There has been a fair bit of the document culled where it effectively
just restated what is globally the case.  I don't think it pays to be
too parochial.

The tagging discussion you pointed to had no local proponents - that's
why I was surprised you wanted to add a special case for Australia
based on that discussion alone.  The discussion was globally generic -
where this exists, do that.

Ian.


Ian.

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