Simpson Desert

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Simpson Desert

Warin
Hi

I have change Dalhousie from village to locality .. no
permanentpopulation let alone any services here.


The 'French Line' is tagged as 'tertiary' on the western side yet
'unclassified' on the eastern side.


Both sides should be the same. In rendering terms I prefer 'tertiary'.

The 'Rig Road' should have the same classification too,

as should the major connecting roads between the 2 and then the major
connections off to the 'outside world'.


Any objections to 'tertiary' out here?





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Re: Simpson Desert

Phil Wyatt

Thanks Warin

 

It’s not always obvious which tags are best (to any of us). My background is from a management point of view where unfortunately these days anything that gets onto maps can be misinterpreted by poorly equipped or inexperienced  tourists so I always use the precautionary approach and would generally use the ‘least developed’ tagging in these sorts of areas. I agree primary and secondary are not appropriate.

 

Hema certainly has them as the same classification right across but they also have a higher classification into Dalhousie, reducing after that. Are they about the same as the Mt Dare Road (tertiary in OSM)?

 

I have only driven on the periphery of the desert tracks – not across, so just going on that knowledge and other mapping products

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Warin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2018 2:41 PM
To: Phil Wyatt
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Simpson Desert

 

Note: This came through as a private message - not on the list.
 
 I have travelled on these roads.
Due to there length and popularity I would tend to go tertiary. 
They are not council maintained so fail to go on the council classification system - so the SA "D" classification cannot be used. 
. 
The OZie wiki guidance page ..umm for the section 'Unsealed and 4wd Roads' lists for 4 wd only from 'track' up to 'primary' as possible classifications .. I don't think 'primary' nor 'secondary' are appropriate.
 
 
Note that it is not I who placed the tertiary class on the western section (dates back to 2012). 
I'll add 
4wd_only=yes/recomended
tracktype=grade7? or there abouts...  
lanes=1
to the roads on my next upload. 
On 23/12/18 12:04, Phil Wyatt wrote:
There is some good guidance on roads at the Aussie wiki page
 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines 
 
The render may also change depending on other tags (aside from tertiary) and you shouldn’t really tag just to get the render you want (plus it may be different in other renderers)
 
I am not sure I would call any of those roads tertiary but that’s just me - I would go unclassified
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Warin [[hidden email]] 
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2018 11:22 AM
To: talk-au
Subject: [talk-au] Simpson Desert
 
Hi
 
I have change Dalhousie from village to locality .. no 
permanentpopulation let alone any services here.
 
 
The 'French Line' is tagged as 'tertiary' on the western side yet 
'unclassified' on the eastern side.
 
 
Both sides should be the same. In rendering terms I prefer 'tertiary'.
 
The 'Rig Road' should have the same classification too,
 
as should the major connecting roads between the 2 and then the major 
connections off to the 'outside world'.
 
 
Any objections to 'tertiary' out here?
 
 
 
 
 
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Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
 
 
 
 

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Re: Simpson Desert

Warin

Anyone travelling from the east will face 'big red' or 'little red' ... that sets the bar fairly high for them.


Travelling from the west at Dalhousie there is a volunteer ranger ... a desert parks pass is required .. he also gets them from the east too, which is a heavy fine $$$. For those travelling east he usually just sends them back to Mt Dare where they can buy the pass $$. Of course this can change with attitudes and time.

I have seen 'less experienced' came back through Dalhousie .. they are not happy. But then they have started on the easier way across and the difficulty only gets harder, so they are best coming back if they find it too hard.

I too have seen the results of 'that looks an interesting way, lets try that' of an English pair of girls in a hired 'wicked camper' going east on the Nullarbor train line ... they rolled it .. nothing too serious for the girls .. broken limbs but not life threatening. Camper was a right off. Don't know what map they were using.

The road to Mt dare... humm well there is a nasty kick on the left side of the road travelling out of Oodnadatta .. that has caused a number of 4WDs to roll there .. The rest of the road only has 1 or 2 sand drifts to contend with. Going Mt Dare to Dalhousie is better than the Mt Dare Rd .. as long as you don't come across one of the upset people who are back tracking because they cannot make it across the Simpson - they just have there foot down and will wipe you off the road.

A line on a map does not mean you should use it (permission for the Colson track has not been given for decades as far as I am aware) nor does it mean you can traverse it.That should be one of the first things you learn about a map.



On 23/12/18 15:14, Phil Wyatt wrote:

Thanks Warin

 

It’s not always obvious which tags are best (to any of us). My background is from a management point of view where unfortunately these days anything that gets onto maps can be misinterpreted by poorly equipped or inexperienced  tourists so I always use the precautionary approach and would generally use the ‘least developed’ tagging in these sorts of areas. I agree primary and secondary are not appropriate.

 

Hema certainly has them as the same classification right across but they also have a higher classification into Dalhousie, reducing after that. Are they about the same as the Mt Dare Road (tertiary in OSM)?

 

I have only driven on the periphery of the desert tracks – not across, so just going on that knowledge and other mapping products

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Warin [[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2018 2:41 PM
To: Phil Wyatt
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Simpson Desert

 

Note: This came through as a private message - not on the list.
 
 I have travelled on these roads.
Due to there length and popularity I would tend to go tertiary. 
They are not council maintained so fail to go on the council classification system - so the SA "D" classification cannot be used. 
. 
The OZie wiki guidance page ..umm for the section 'Unsealed and 4wd Roads' lists for 4 wd only from 'track' up to 'primary' as possible classifications .. I don't think 'primary' nor 'secondary' are appropriate.
 
 
Note that it is not I who placed the tertiary class on the western section (dates back to 2012). 
I'll add 
4wd_only=yes/recomended
tracktype=grade7? or there abouts...  
lanes=1
to the roads on my next upload. 
On 23/12/18 12:04, Phil Wyatt wrote:
There is some good guidance on roads at the Aussie wiki page
 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines 
 
The render may also change depending on other tags (aside from tertiary) and you shouldn’t really tag just to get the render you want (plus it may be different in other renderers)
 
I am not sure I would call any of those roads tertiary but that’s just me - I would go unclassified
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Warin [[hidden email]] 
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2018 11:22 AM
To: talk-au
Subject: [talk-au] Simpson Desert
 
Hi
 
I have change Dalhousie from village to locality .. no 
permanentpopulation let alone any services here.
 
 
The 'French Line' is tagged as 'tertiary' on the western side yet 
'unclassified' on the eastern side.
 
 
Both sides should be the same. In rendering terms I prefer 'tertiary'.
 
The 'Rig Road' should have the same classification too,
 
as should the major connecting roads between the 2 and then the major 
connections off to the 'outside world'.
 
 
Any objections to 'tertiary' out here?
 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
 
 
 
 



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Re: Simpson Desert

Warin

Humm thinking more on this.

The SA section requires a 'Desert Park Pass' .. so is an access issue access=permit, fee=yes should be applied to the relevant ways, I'll add them on the next upload.

The 'Desert Park Pass' comes with maps (Westprint - the back of these has lots of text information in not very large type - think lots of reading on the relevant features of the map) and an information package covering driving etc.



On 23/12/18 16:04, Warin wrote:

Anyone travelling from the east will face 'big red' or 'little red' ... that sets the bar fairly high for them.


Travelling from the west at Dalhousie there is a volunteer ranger ... a desert parks pass is required .. he also gets them from the east too, which is a heavy fine $$$. For those travelling east he usually just sends them back to Mt Dare where they can buy the pass $$. Of course this can change with attitudes and time.

I have seen 'less experienced' came back through Dalhousie .. they are not happy. But then they have started on the easier way across and the difficulty only gets harder, so they are best coming back if they find it too hard.

I too have seen the results of 'that looks an interesting way, lets try that' of an English pair of girls in a hired 'wicked camper' going east on the Nullarbor train line ... they rolled it .. nothing too serious for the girls .. broken limbs but not life threatening. Camper was a right off. Don't know what map they were using.

The road to Mt dare... humm well there is a nasty kick on the left side of the road travelling out of Oodnadatta .. that has caused a number of 4WDs to roll there .. The rest of the road only has 1 or 2 sand drifts to contend with. Going Mt Dare to Dalhousie is better than the Mt Dare Rd .. as long as you don't come across one of the upset people who are back tracking because they cannot make it across the Simpson - they just have there foot down and will wipe you off the road.

A line on a map does not mean you should use it (permission for the Colson track has not been given for decades as far as I am aware) nor does it mean you can traverse it.That should be one of the first things you learn about a map.



On 23/12/18 15:14, Phil Wyatt wrote:

Thanks Warin

 

It’s not always obvious which tags are best (to any of us). My background is from a management point of view where unfortunately these days anything that gets onto maps can be misinterpreted by poorly equipped or inexperienced  tourists so I always use the precautionary approach and would generally use the ‘least developed’ tagging in these sorts of areas. I agree primary and secondary are not appropriate.

 

Hema certainly has them as the same classification right across but they also have a higher classification into Dalhousie, reducing after that. Are they about the same as the Mt Dare Road (tertiary in OSM)?

 

I have only driven on the periphery of the desert tracks – not across, so just going on that knowledge and other mapping products

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Warin [[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2018 2:41 PM
To: Phil Wyatt
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Simpson Desert

 

Note: This came through as a private message - not on the list.
 
 I have travelled on these roads.
Due to there length and popularity I would tend to go tertiary. 
They are not council maintained so fail to go on the council classification system - so the SA "D" classification cannot be used. 
. 
The OZie wiki guidance page ..umm for the section 'Unsealed and 4wd Roads' lists for 4 wd only from 'track' up to 'primary' as possible classifications .. I don't think 'primary' nor 'secondary' are appropriate.
 
 
Note that it is not I who placed the tertiary class on the western section (dates back to 2012). 
I'll add 
4wd_only=yes/recomended
tracktype=grade7? or there abouts...  
lanes=1
to the roads on my next upload. 
On 23/12/18 12:04, Phil Wyatt wrote:
There is some good guidance on roads at the Aussie wiki page
 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines 
 
The render may also change depending on other tags (aside from tertiary) and you shouldn’t really tag just to get the render you want (plus it may be different in other renderers)
 
I am not sure I would call any of those roads tertiary but that’s just me - I would go unclassified
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Warin [[hidden email]] 
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2018 11:22 AM
To: talk-au
Subject: [talk-au] Simpson Desert
 
Hi
 
I have change Dalhousie from village to locality .. no 
permanentpopulation let alone any services here.
 
 
The 'French Line' is tagged as 'tertiary' on the western side yet 
'unclassified' on the eastern side.
 
 
Both sides should be the same. In rendering terms I prefer 'tertiary'.
 
The 'Rig Road' should have the same classification too,
 
as should the major connecting roads between the 2 and then the major 
connections off to the 'outside world'.
 
 
Any objections to 'tertiary' out here?
 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
 
 
 
 




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Talk-au mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au