Source dubbio

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Re: Source dubbio

dieterdreist


Am Do., 23. Mai 2019 um 11:20 Uhr schrieb Ivo Reano <[hidden email]>:
Nessuna novità?
Ho un sacco di survey da inserire, ma mi trovo continuamente con cose che potrebbero essere revertate...


ho fatto richiesta per revert/redaction alla Data Working Group 3 giorni fa. Non ho ricevuto risposta per ora. Considera che anche loro sono dei volontari, e qui parliamo di tanto lavoro, sopratutto se ci fossero state modifiche nel frattempo.

Ciao,
Martin

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Re: Source dubbio

Andy Townsend
In reply to this post by Ivo Reano
On 23/05/2019 10:19, Ivo Reano wrote:
Nessuna novità?
Ho un sacco di survey da inserire, ma mi trovo continuamente con cose che potrebbero essere revertate...

Hello,

Andy from the DWG here.  Apologies for the delay in getting around to this.

(automatic translation into Italian below)

Currently as I understand it:

  1. The licence under which this data was released isn't compatible with OSM
  2. The data quality isn't actually very good.

With regard to (1) there is an option to try and obtain the data under a compatible licence.  However because of (2) we may not actually want to do that, and want to revert it anyway.

If we do decide to revert it then we'll probably find that some data has been modified by other users since.  With this data we can again do one of two things:

  1. Leave it, because newer edits by other users may have corrected problems
  2. Force through the revert, which will undo good mapping by people unconnected with the import here.

If the licence for the data isn't compatible then we'd normally tend to do (2) rather than (1) here.  Whichever we do there will be a lot of remapping to do and a lot of tidying up needed - afterwards I suspect that there will be things duplicated and things missing, however we do it.

After we've finished any reversion we may then want to redact the data because it wasn't compatible with OSM in the first place.  If something is redacted the history will no longer be visible in OSM.  An example of what something looks like after it has been redacted is https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/325344168/history .

Before starting on any of this, I just wanted to make sure that my understanding of the problem is correct:

It would also be useful to know if anyone thinks that the data might be available under a licence other than CC-BY-4.0 which might be compatible with OSM. 

Is there anything else that I need to know about this?

Best Regards,

Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group.

(traduzione automatica)

Ciao,

Andy dal DWG qui. Ci scusiamo per il ritardo nell'ottenere questo.

Attualmente come ho capito:

    La licenza con cui sono stati rilasciati questi dati non è compatibile con OSM
    La qualità dei dati non è in realtà molto buona.

Riguardo a (1) c'è un'opzione per provare e ottenere i dati sotto una licenza compatibile. Tuttavia a causa di (2) potremmo non volerlo fare e vogliamo comunque ripristinarlo.

Se decidiamo di ripristinarlo, probabilmente scopriremo che alcuni dati sono stati modificati da altri utenti da allora. Con questi dati possiamo ancora fare una delle due cose:

    Lasciare, perché le modifiche più recenti da parte di altri utenti potrebbero avere problemi corretti
    Forza attraverso il ripristino, che annullerà la buona mappatura da parte di persone non connesse con l'importazione qui.

Se la licenza per i dati non è compatibile, normalmente dovremmo fare (2) piuttosto che (1) qui. Qualsiasi cosa facciamo ci sarà un sacco di rimappature da fare e un sacco di riordino necessari - dopo sospetto che ci saranno cose duplicate e cose mancanti, comunque lo facciamo.

Dopo aver terminato una fase di reversione, potremmo in seguito voler correggere i dati perché in primo luogo non era compatibile con OSM. Se qualcosa viene cancellato, la cronologia non sarà più visibile in OSM. Un esempio di ciò che appare dopo che è stato redatto è https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/325344168/history.

Prima di iniziare qualsiasi cosa, volevo solo assicurarmi che la mia comprensione del problema fosse corretta:

    I dati da ripristinare sono tutti i changeset di https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/fabioportinaro da https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/69299082 in poi
    Nessun altro utente ha utilizzato direttamente la stessa fonte di dati
    La comunità pensa che un ripristino è la migliore via da seguire

Sarebbe anche utile sapere se qualcuno pensa che i dati potrebbero essere disponibili con una licenza diversa da CC-BY-4.0 che potrebbe essere compatibile con OSM.

C'è qualcos'altro che ho bisogno di sapere su questo?

I migliori saluti,

Andy Townsend, a nome del Data Working Group di OSM.



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Re: Source dubbio

Andy Townsend
On 07/06/2019 21:55, Andy Townsend wrote:
On 23/05/2019 10:19, Ivo Reano wrote:
Nessuna novità?
Ho un sacco di survey da inserire, ma mi trovo continuamente con cose che potrebbero essere revertate...

...

The feedback that I've had so far is in favour of reverting this imported data, possibly without a redaction.


If we do decide to revert it then we'll probably find that some data has been modified by other users since.  With this data we can again do one of two things:

  1. Leave it, because newer edits by other users may have corrected problems
  2. Force through the revert, which will undo good mapping by people unconnected with the import here.

If we're not redacting then I'd suggest we do (1) rather than (2) here.

Before I start on this procedure, has anyone else got any comments?

Best Regards,

Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group


(traduzione automatica)

Il feedback che ho avuto fino ad ora è a favore del ripristino di questi dati importati, possibilmente senza una redazione.


Se non stiamo correggendo, suggerirei di fare (1) piuttosto che (2) qui.

Prima di iniziare questa procedura, qualcun altro ha ricevuto dei commenti?




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Re: Source dubbio

Andrea Musuruane
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend
Hi Andy,

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 10:56 PM Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Andy from the DWG here.  Apologies for the delay in getting around to this.

(automatic translation into Italian below)

Currently as I understand it:

  1. The licence under which this data was released isn't compatible with OSM
  2. The data quality isn't actually very good.

With regard to (1) there is an option to try and obtain the data under a compatible licence.  However because of (2) we may not actually want to do that, and want to revert it anyway.

Exactly.

If we do decide to revert it then we'll probably find that some data has been modified by other users since.  With this data we can again do one of two things:

  1. Leave it, because newer edits by other users may have corrected problems
  2. Force through the revert, which will undo good mapping by people unconnected with the import here.

If the licence for the data isn't compatible then we'd normally tend to do (2) rather than (1) here.  Whichever we do there will be a lot of remapping to do and a lot of tidying up needed - afterwards I suspect that there will be things duplicated and things missing, however we do it.

It is my understanding local mappers waited for the revert. They didn't try to correct issues or build upon these data.

After we've finished any reversion we may then want to redact the data because it wasn't compatible with OSM in the first place.  If something is redacted the history will no longer be visible in OSM.  An example of what something looks like after it has been redacted is https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/325344168/history .

The redaction should be mandatory since these data aren't licensed under a ODbL compatible license (and we have no waiver).

If we'll get a waiver in future, we'll propose a proper import (with proper conflation!!!).

Before starting on any of this, I just wanted to make sure that my understanding of the problem is correct:

That's correct.

It would also be useful to know if anyone thinks that the data might be available under a licence other than CC-BY-4.0 which might be compatible with OSM. 

CC-BY-4.0  is the license chosen by Regione Piemonte for all their open data. So the data aren't available under another license.

Best regards,

Andrea



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Re: Source dubbio

Andy Townsend
On 14/06/2019 16:40, Andrea Musuruane wrote:
Hi Andy,
...
It is my understanding local mappers waited for the revert. They didn't try to correct issues or build upon these data.

Thanks for that - as there haven't been any other replies I'll have a look at starting a revert soon.  We'll then take a look at where that leaves us.

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: Source dubbio

canfe
After the numerous reverts of the changeset of /fabiopartinaro /many "orphan"
points have remained on the map.
Like this one:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6463853688
Can't they be removed with an automatic procedure like the revert?



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Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: Source dubbio

Andy Townsend
On 25/06/2019 18:23, canfe wrote:
> After the numerous reverts of the changeset of /fabiopartinaro /many "orphan"
> points have remained on the map.
> Like this one:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6463853688
> Can't they be removed with an automatic procedure like the revert?
>
The revert isn't complete yet - the first run ran out of memory. I'll
pick that up when I get chance (within the next couple of days).  Once
that's done, there will then need to be a review of whatever's left -
that will take a bit of time.  As I said at the start, this won't be an
entirely automatic process.

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: Source dubbio

Andy Townsend

Thanks for everyone's patience - I believe that I've now reverted the problem changesets.

Can anyone see any problems that I have missed?

Best Regards,

Andy


Grazie per la pazienza di tutti - credo che ora ho ritornato i gruppi di modifiche problematiche.

Qualcuno può vedere problemi che ho perso?

I migliori saluti,

Andy


On 25/06/2019 18:54, Andy Townsend wrote:
On 25/06/2019 18:23, canfe wrote:
After the numerous reverts of the changeset of /fabiopartinaro /many "orphan"
points have remained on the map.
Like this one:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6463853688
Can't they be removed with an automatic procedure like the revert?

The revert isn't complete yet - the first run ran out of memory. I'll pick that up when I get chance (within the next couple of days).  Once that's done, there will then need to be a review of whatever's left - that will take a bit of time.  As I said at the start, this won't be an entirely automatic process.

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: Source dubbio

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 4. Jul 2019, at 13:37, Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for everyone's patience - I believe that I've now reverted the problem changesets.


Thank you very much for your help!

Cheers, Martin
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