Streetview / OSM Integration

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Streetview / OSM Integration

Tac Tacelosky
Here's a link to our current Streetview tool, showing an area where there's very little OSM data:


You can see that we were experimenting with a "Quick Add" feature beneath the image, the idea was set the zoom, pitch and heading, center an object, then quickly identify it -- "stop sign", "bike rack", "sidewalk cutout" or a very simple form "shop: nail salon", "restaurant, name=Al's Pizza", etc.

But at the moment that part is getting complicated, so I simply have a link to OSM in the lower left.  

Feedback welcome.

Tac

PS Will add the ODbL license text for the images shortly! 

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Re: Streetview / OSM Integration

Andrew Salzberg
As a mostly newbie myself, I have been following this conversation passively but just had a chance to look at your tool and I think it has the potential to be pretty amazing (has anyone tried something similar previously? forgive my ignorance)

Obviously there's been huge growth (despite challenges and some opposition for valid reasons, in certain cases) in map editing based on aerial imagery - with the iD editor only the most prominent recent example. What's missing from aerial is all the detail you're trying to collect - addresses, street features, building heights, etc etc which have required on the ground mapping.

But now - with your "DIY google streetview"  - we could have a way to start having folks adding these features without necessarily walking around mapping themselves. Am I right that volunteers might be able to strap a similar camera to the roof of a car (or bike, etc), drive around town, upload the photos, and then have others (if not themselves) use these tracks to update the map? (in a manner basically similar to the way GPX traces have been used in the past)? 

If so - sign me up. I'd be curious what type of camera you're using (how expensive, etc) and if you've thought about how others might upload imagery, how a standard license for the imagery might be worked out for new contributors, etc.

Anyway - looking at your tool got me excited for the possibilities. congrats on the work so far.

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Tac Tacelosky <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a link to our current Streetview tool, showing an area where there's very little OSM data:


You can see that we were experimenting with a "Quick Add" feature beneath the image, the idea was set the zoom, pitch and heading, center an object, then quickly identify it -- "stop sign", "bike rack", "sidewalk cutout" or a very simple form "shop: nail salon", "restaurant, name=Al's Pizza", etc.

But at the moment that part is getting complicated, so I simply have a link to OSM in the lower left.  

Feedback welcome.

Tac

PS Will add the ODbL license text for the images shortly! 

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Re: Streetview / OSM Integration

Tac Tacelosky
Thanks, Andrew.  Yes, your thinking is exactly right -- this can be used like a high-powered, multi-media GPX file.  

One issue, though, is that the camera is very expensive (around $17,000).  I've been driving around the DC area, and have collected about 15,000 images so far.  We're still figuring out how to manage them, even at that relatively low number, processing them and uploading them to Amazon's s3 can be very time-consuming.

I'm hoping to connect with some of the map editors to talk about integration, toying with coming out to San Francisco for the conference to make some in-person connections.

Tac



On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Salzberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
As a mostly newbie myself, I have been following this conversation passively but just had a chance to look at your tool and I think it has the potential to be pretty amazing (has anyone tried something similar previously? forgive my ignorance)

Obviously there's been huge growth (despite challenges and some opposition for valid reasons, in certain cases) in map editing based on aerial imagery - with the iD editor only the most prominent recent example. What's missing from aerial is all the detail you're trying to collect - addresses, street features, building heights, etc etc which have required on the ground mapping.

But now - with your "DIY google streetview"  - we could have a way to start having folks adding these features without necessarily walking around mapping themselves. Am I right that volunteers might be able to strap a similar camera to the roof of a car (or bike, etc), drive around town, upload the photos, and then have others (if not themselves) use these tracks to update the map? (in a manner basically similar to the way GPX traces have been used in the past)? 

If so - sign me up. I'd be curious what type of camera you're using (how expensive, etc) and if you've thought about how others might upload imagery, how a standard license for the imagery might be worked out for new contributors, etc.

Anyway - looking at your tool got me excited for the possibilities. congrats on the work so far.

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Tac Tacelosky <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a link to our current Streetview tool, showing an area where there's very little OSM data:


You can see that we were experimenting with a "Quick Add" feature beneath the image, the idea was set the zoom, pitch and heading, center an object, then quickly identify it -- "stop sign", "bike rack", "sidewalk cutout" or a very simple form "shop: nail salon", "restaurant, name=Al's Pizza", etc.

But at the moment that part is getting complicated, so I simply have a link to OSM in the lower left.  

Feedback welcome.

Tac

PS Will add the ODbL license text for the images shortly! 

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Re: Streetview / OSM Integration

Dudley Ibbett
I effectively do my own streetview when driving to walks:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Photo_Mapping_with_the_Drift_HD_Helmet_Camera

It is setup to take images every 2 secs.  With a separate GPS datalogger I am able to view the images in JOSM.  Currently you click on the image icon on the editor to view the image.  

To be honest I collect many more images than I every look at.  Clearly the quality is very poor by comparison but more people might be able to afford such a camera and take pictures for others to use.  The other problematic area will be having some software to remove people's faces, car number plates etc.   

Its certainly a good idea but at this time it would also be useful to have a $300 camera option so more people can contribute.  The images could always be updated as the cameras improve. 

Dudley






Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 14:31:34 -0400
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSM-newbies] Streetview / OSM Integration

Thanks, Andrew.  Yes, your thinking is exactly right -- this can be used like a high-powered, multi-media GPX file.  

One issue, though, is that the camera is very expensive (around $17,000).  I've been driving around the DC area, and have collected about 15,000 images so far.  We're still figuring out how to manage them, even at that relatively low number, processing them and uploading them to Amazon's s3 can be very time-consuming.

I'm hoping to connect with some of the map editors to talk about integration, toying with coming out to San Francisco for the conference to make some in-person connections.

Tac



On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Salzberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
As a mostly newbie myself, I have been following this conversation passively but just had a chance to look at your tool and I think it has the potential to be pretty amazing (has anyone tried something similar previously? forgive my ignorance)

Obviously there's been huge growth (despite challenges and some opposition for valid reasons, in certain cases) in map editing based on aerial imagery - with the iD editor only the most prominent recent example. What's missing from aerial is all the detail you're trying to collect - addresses, street features, building heights, etc etc which have required on the ground mapping.

But now - with your "DIY google streetview"  - we could have a way to start having folks adding these features without necessarily walking around mapping themselves. Am I right that volunteers might be able to strap a similar camera to the roof of a car (or bike, etc), drive around town, upload the photos, and then have others (if not themselves) use these tracks to update the map? (in a manner basically similar to the way GPX traces have been used in the past)? 

If so - sign me up. I'd be curious what type of camera you're using (how expensive, etc) and if you've thought about how others might upload imagery, how a standard license for the imagery might be worked out for new contributors, etc.

Anyway - looking at your tool got me excited for the possibilities. congrats on the work so far.

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Tac Tacelosky <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a link to our current Streetview tool, showing an area where there's very little OSM data:


You can see that we were experimenting with a "Quick Add" feature beneath the image, the idea was set the zoom, pitch and heading, center an object, then quickly identify it -- "stop sign", "bike rack", "sidewalk cutout" or a very simple form "shop: nail salon", "restaurant, name=Al's Pizza", etc.

But at the moment that part is getting complicated, so I simply have a link to OSM in the lower left.  

Feedback welcome.

Tac

PS Will add the ODbL license text for the images shortly! 

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Re: Streetview / OSM Integration

Tac Tacelosky
Very cool.   The GoPro Hero camera is a good choice for those kind of shots, too, and is mountable (http://gopro.com/hd-hero3-cameras).

Your approach got me thinking about an alternative for the street views.  We just added the ability to extract a static image.  We also have a "distance" slider which indicates how far the object you're looking at is from the location the streetview was taken.  Using the Bing imagery helps a lot.  For example:


I'm noticing now that our distance slider isn't preserved in the URL, so you'd have to extend the slider to about 70 meters, to where the curved edge touches the front of the building as seen in Bing.

When you click on Snapshot, we save a static jpeg:


(Note: the image looks fuzzy because it's zoomed in a lot, to emphasize why the lat/long of the photo isn't the lat/long of the subject of the photo).

The idea you triggered is that (1) we should adjust the EXIF info for the snapshot to be what it's looking at, rather than where the camera was when it was taken and (2) we could create a GPX route that included photos for integration with the OSM tools.

I hope iD someday supports GPX and photos, I think it will become the editor of choice for online users.  

Tac 



On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Dudley Ibbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
I effectively do my own streetview when driving to walks:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Photo_Mapping_with_the_Drift_HD_Helmet_Camera

It is setup to take images every 2 secs.  With a separate GPS datalogger I am able to view the images in JOSM.  Currently you click on the image icon on the editor to view the image.  

To be honest I collect many more images than I every look at.  Clearly the quality is very poor by comparison but more people might be able to afford such a camera and take pictures for others to use.  The other problematic area will be having some software to remove people's faces, car number plates etc.   

Its certainly a good idea but at this time it would also be useful to have a $300 camera option so more people can contribute.  The images could always be updated as the cameras improve. 

Dudley






Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 14:31:34 -0400
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSM-newbies] Streetview / OSM Integration


Thanks, Andrew.  Yes, your thinking is exactly right -- this can be used like a high-powered, multi-media GPX file.  

One issue, though, is that the camera is very expensive (around $17,000).  I've been driving around the DC area, and have collected about 15,000 images so far.  We're still figuring out how to manage them, even at that relatively low number, processing them and uploading them to Amazon's s3 can be very time-consuming.

I'm hoping to connect with some of the map editors to talk about integration, toying with coming out to San Francisco for the conference to make some in-person connections.

Tac



On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Salzberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
As a mostly newbie myself, I have been following this conversation passively but just had a chance to look at your tool and I think it has the potential to be pretty amazing (has anyone tried something similar previously? forgive my ignorance)

Obviously there's been huge growth (despite challenges and some opposition for valid reasons, in certain cases) in map editing based on aerial imagery - with the iD editor only the most prominent recent example. What's missing from aerial is all the detail you're trying to collect - addresses, street features, building heights, etc etc which have required on the ground mapping.

But now - with your "DIY google streetview"  - we could have a way to start having folks adding these features without necessarily walking around mapping themselves. Am I right that volunteers might be able to strap a similar camera to the roof of a car (or bike, etc), drive around town, upload the photos, and then have others (if not themselves) use these tracks to update the map? (in a manner basically similar to the way GPX traces have been used in the past)? 

If so - sign me up. I'd be curious what type of camera you're using (how expensive, etc) and if you've thought about how others might upload imagery, how a standard license for the imagery might be worked out for new contributors, etc.

Anyway - looking at your tool got me excited for the possibilities. congrats on the work so far.

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Tac Tacelosky <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a link to our current Streetview tool, showing an area where there's very little OSM data:


You can see that we were experimenting with a "Quick Add" feature beneath the image, the idea was set the zoom, pitch and heading, center an object, then quickly identify it -- "stop sign", "bike rack", "sidewalk cutout" or a very simple form "shop: nail salon", "restaurant, name=Al's Pizza", etc.

But at the moment that part is getting complicated, so I simply have a link to OSM in the lower left.  

Feedback welcome.

Tac

PS Will add the ODbL license text for the images shortly! 

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DIY Streetview Camera - Was: Streetview / OSM Integration

Florian Lohoff-2
In reply to this post by Tac Tacelosky

Hi,

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 02:31:34PM -0400, Tac Tacelosky wrote:
> One issue, though, is that the camera is very expensive (around $17,000).
>  I've been driving around the DC area, and have collected about 15,000
> images so far.  We're still figuring out how to manage them, even at that
> relatively low number, processing them and uploading them to Amazon's s3
> can be very time-consuming.

I have been thinking about putting together a camera rig with used
pocket cameras on the roof of the car to make Streetview like 360°
Images.

For a while i thought about using pocket cameras like the PowerShot G3
ff. and mounting 6 of them in a 60° angle on a plate on top of the car.

Then using hugin to make 360° images as the overlap is the same for
all images this should be an easy task.

The problem with that i have identified is Synchronous shutter release.
Pocket cameras tend to have a long shutter delay and one could easily
only trigger it via USB (Or by soldering wires to the shutter release
button). So triggering like 5-6 Cameras at once would be near to
impossible. Most likely this is the cause Google uses video not still
imagery at least as far as i know.

So i thought about using USB Video Cams like the Microsoft HD 1) stuff.
With HD video at 1920x1080 and most likely a much larger focal length
so one would need more cameras for getting the 360° panorama. Getting
those images together would be more difficult.

Problem with the Microsoft HD cam could be autofocus you dont want at
all to happen. I am unshure whether that could be disabled.

Flo
1) http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/lifecam-cinema
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Re: DIY Streetview Camera - Was: Streetview / OSM Integration

Sebastian Arcus
On 15/05/13 09:51, Florian Lohoff wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 02:31:34PM -0400, Tac Tacelosky wrote:
>> One issue, though, is that the camera is very expensive (around $17,000).
>>   I've been driving around the DC area, and have collected about 15,000
>> images so far.  We're still figuring out how to manage them, even at that
>> relatively low number, processing them and uploading them to Amazon's s3
>> can be very time-consuming.
>
> I have been thinking about putting together a camera rig with used
> pocket cameras on the roof of the car to make Streetview like 360°
> Images.
>
> For a while i thought about using pocket cameras like the PowerShot G3
> ff. and mounting 6 of them in a 60° angle on a plate on top of the car.
>
> Then using hugin to make 360° images as the overlap is the same for
> all images this should be an easy task.
>
> The problem with that i have identified is Synchronous shutter release.
> Pocket cameras tend to have a long shutter delay and one could easily
> only trigger it via USB (Or by soldering wires to the shutter release
> button). So triggering like 5-6 Cameras at once would be near to
> impossible. Most likely this is the cause Google uses video not still
> imagery at least as far as i know.
>
> So i thought about using USB Video Cams like the Microsoft HD 1) stuff.
> With HD video at 1920x1080 and most likely a much larger focal length
> so one would need more cameras for getting the 360° panorama. Getting
> those images together would be more difficult.
>
> Problem with the Microsoft HD cam could be autofocus you dont want at
> all to happen. I am unshure whether that could be disabled.
>
> Flo
> 1) http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/lifecam-cinema
>

As far as I know, autofocus can be disabled on most usb web cams that
have it. At least under Linux. The Linux uvc development list
(http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/) is a really good place to get more
info. One word of warning about the MS LifeCam Studio and MS LifeCam
Cinema: they both seem to have an inbuilt bug/feature which makes them
request all available USB bandwidth, even if they don't need it, even if
they are set on low resolution, even if they work in mjpeg. That makes
using more than one of these cameras on the same USB root hub
impossible. Extra PCI or PCI-e usb cards would solve this problem I
believe - if one operates them from a desktop. I think there is
somewhere a PCI-e usb expansion card with 4 usb root hubs (chips) on
board - which would allow 4 extra cameras to be connected.

Sebastian

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Re: DIY Streetview Camera - Was: Streetview / OSM Integration

Florian Lohoff-2
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 09:34:50AM +0100, Sebastian Arcus wrote:

> As far as I know, autofocus can be disabled on most usb web cams
> that have it. At least under Linux. The Linux uvc development list
> (http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/) is a really good place to get
> more info. One word of warning about the MS LifeCam Studio and MS
> LifeCam Cinema: they both seem to have an inbuilt bug/feature which
> makes them request all available USB bandwidth, even if they don't
> need it, even if they are set on low resolution, even if they work
> in mjpeg. That makes using more than one of these cameras on the
> same USB root hub impossible. Extra PCI or PCI-e usb cards would
> solve this problem I believe - if one operates them from a desktop.
> I think there is somewhere a PCI-e usb expansion card with 4 usb
> root hubs (chips) on board - which would allow 4 extra cameras to be
> connected.
I found another issue - "Rolling Shutter" - The normal CMOS USB Webcams
do have rolling shutters. Looking out in the front is okay. Looking 90°
left or right produces strange images for e.g. street lamps which seem
to bend towards driving direction.

So i am again puzzled on how to proceed. Using CCD industrial cameras
would be an option. But high-res, high shutter speed, CCD cams are
prohibitive expensive for a hobbiist when you need like 5-6 cameras
to get a 360° view.

So - CCD, Color, Global Shutter, FullHD, 30fps, Ethernet cameras
on my wishlist :)

Flo
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