Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

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Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Dorothea Kazazi
Hello,

The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
Chapters Congress at SotM.

https://osmf.limequery.org/428835

~ The survey will run for two weeks.
~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".

There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on the
opening page.

warm greetings,

Dorothea


~~
Links you can share for different languages:

English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong):
https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK
French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

SimonPoole
Hi Dorothea

There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.

@the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would seem
to be designed to achieve a specific result. While a truthful answer on
my behalf would require a yes, because now and then I'll map remote and
if it is simply reverting a changeset on request of a remote mapper, but
that doesn't mean that a) I in general think it is a good idea, b) it is
any significant part of my contributions.

Simon

Am 07.08.2019 um 12:59 schrieb Dorothea Kazazi:

> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
> aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
> Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835
>
> ~ The survey will run for two weeks.
> ~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".
>
> There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on
> the opening page.
>
> warm greetings,
>
> Dorothea
>
>
> ~~
> Links you can share for different languages:
>
> English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
> Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
> Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong):
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK
> French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
> German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
> Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
> Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
> Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
> Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
> Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Mikel Maron-3
The question wrt remote mapping would seem to be designed to achieve a specific result. 


Not at all. But please do feel free to answer truthfully, and explain anything in the previous question "Where do you map mostly?"



* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 04:31:38 PM GMT+3, Simon Poole <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hi Dorothea

There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.

@the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would seem
to be designed to achieve a specific result. While a truthful answer on
my behalf would require a yes, because now and then I'll map remote and
if it is simply reverting a changeset on request of a remote mapper, but
that doesn't mean that a) I in general think it is a good idea, b) it is
any significant part of my contributions.

Simon

Am 07.08.2019 um 12:59 schrieb Dorothea Kazazi:

> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
> aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
> Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835
>
> ~ The survey will run for two weeks.
> ~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".
>
> There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on
> the opening page.
>
> warm greetings,
>
> Dorothea
>
>
> ~~
> Links you can share for different languages:
>
> English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
> Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
> Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong):
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK
> French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
> German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
> Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
> Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
> Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
> Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
> Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Mikel Maron-3
Also note that no questions are required, so you can skip if most comfortable with that. 

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 05:00:05 PM GMT+3, Mikel Maron <[hidden email]> wrote:


The question wrt remote mapping would seem to be designed to achieve a specific result. 


Not at all. But please do feel free to answer truthfully, and explain anything in the previous question "Where do you map mostly?"



* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 04:31:38 PM GMT+3, Simon Poole <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hi Dorothea

There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.

@the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would seem
to be designed to achieve a specific result. While a truthful answer on
my behalf would require a yes, because now and then I'll map remote and
if it is simply reverting a changeset on request of a remote mapper, but
that doesn't mean that a) I in general think it is a good idea, b) it is
any significant part of my contributions.

Simon

Am 07.08.2019 um 12:59 schrieb Dorothea Kazazi:

> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
> aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
> Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835
>
> ~ The survey will run for two weeks.
> ~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".
>
> There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on
> the opening page.
>
> warm greetings,
>
> Dorothea
>
>
> ~~
> Links you can share for different languages:
>
> English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
> Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
> Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong):
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK
> French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
> German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
> Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
> Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
> Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
> Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
> Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
_______________________________________________
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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Dorothea Kazazi
In reply to this post by SimonPoole
Hi Simon :)

> There's a typo in the section on communication channels, the first
> occurrence of "other mailing lists" is mangled.

Thanks, it is un-mangled now :)

warm greetings,
Dorothea

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

marc marc
In reply to this post by Dorothea Kazazi
Hello,

where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
available?
I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation
about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a
notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of
the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated.

Regard,
Marc
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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Mikel Maron-3
We did this write up on how the previous survey was useful for board discussions, and some summary of what was raised https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 05:55:35 PM GMT+3, marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hello,

where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
available?
I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation
about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a
notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of
the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated.

Regard,
Marc

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Eugene Alvin Villar
In reply to this post by marc marc
On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:55 PM marc marc <[hidden email]> wrote:
where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
available?
I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation
about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.

The OSMF Board published a blog post on the main OSM blog about the results of that survey including some possible action items:


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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Tordanik
In reply to this post by marc marc
Hi Marc,

On 07.08.19 16:53, marc marc wrote:
> where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
> available?

there were two surveys run by the OSMF in the past months. One was the
survey in advance of the board's face to face meeting in Brussels. We
summarized these survey results as part of this blog post:

https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/

Unfortunately, we cannot share the raw dataset as we failed to ask the
participants for their permission to publish their responses. However,
if you have specific questions about the results, we'll try to answer if
possible!

The most commonly mentioned concerns were discussed immediately at the
boards face-to-face meeting in Brussels, and board members are currently
tasked to work on several of them. There were also some ideas which we
felt were not part of the board's responsibilities, so we decided to
forward these to the appropriate parties.

A second, more recent survey was directed to working groups. This effort
is still ongoing – not all groups have responded so far, and I believe
we haven't evaluated the responses in detail yet.

Yours,
Tobias

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

marc marc
In reply to this post by Mikel Maron-3
Thanks Mikel and Eugene.
a reaction to my idea of being able to receive a follow-up ?

Le 07.08.19 à 17:08, Mikel Maron a écrit :

> We did this write up on how the previous survey was useful for board
> discussions, and some summary of what was raised
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 05:55:35 PM GMT+3, marc marc
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
> available?
> I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation
> about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
> it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a
> notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of
> the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated.
>
> Regard,
> Marc
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Dorothea Kazazi
In reply to this post by Dorothea Kazazi
Hello,

A Spanish translation was just sent to us. It is now live at:
https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=es

If anyone wants to translate the survey to additional languages, please
note that you have to:
- commit to translate the answers
- sign a non-disclosure agreement
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/b/be/OSMF_Non_Disclosure_Agreement_20180911.pdf

Thank you.

warm greetings,
Dorothea

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Christoph Hormann-2
In reply to this post by Dorothea Kazazi
On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Dorothea Kazazi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
> was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and
> its aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the
> Local Chapters Congress at SotM.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/428835

Answer to "Check any of the following to describe your involvement in
OpenStreetMap" will be different in the German and English version for
anyone self-employed with OSM connections.

As with the last survey i published my answers:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/imagico/diary/390441

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Christoph Hormann-2
In reply to this post by SimonPoole
On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Simon Poole wrote:
>
> @the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would
> seem to be designed to achieve a specific result.

I can also see some expectations and assumptions being visible 'between
the lines' in some questions but this looks more like projecting own
preconceptions and state of mind and less like active manipulation.

There seem to be overall a lot of questions where there is a high
likelihood that many participants will answer a different question than
what those designing the survey wanted to ask - due to unclear and
vague terminology for example and due to ambiguous references.

The question you referred to for example says

"Do you remotely map other countries?"

and it is unclear if the "other" refers to the country where you live or  
to "where do you map mostly".  Pure armchair mappers only mapping in a
single country might answer "No" to this question.

My main concern is rather that there are a lot of free form questions
yet there is no option for the participants to allow publication of the
individual free form answers in anonymized form.  This means we will -
just like in the previous survey - only learn about any of these
answers through the lens of the subjective interpretation of those
making the aggregation.  This provides a lot of room for distortion
through either cultural bias or deliberate selectivity of those doing
the aggregation which kind of defeats the whole idea of doing a survey
to reach parts of the community that are otherwise not visible.

In other words: What the survey says is you are welcome to provide your
ideas through the survey but we, the creators of the survey, reserve
the right to interpret your answers as we see fit and neither you nor
anyone else may correct us if we do not correctly interpret what you
wrote.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

john whelan-2
Creating a survey that works takes a lot of effort and it is quite specialised.

Next time it might be worth asking some of the people who like to survey the OSM community to build the survey incorporating a couple of questions of their own and do a test run first.

Cheerio John

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019, 5:27 PM Christoph Hormann, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Simon Poole wrote:
>
> @the designers of the survey. The question wrt remote mapping would
> seem to be designed to achieve a specific result.

I can also see some expectations and assumptions being visible 'between
the lines' in some questions but this looks more like projecting own
preconceptions and state of mind and less like active manipulation.

There seem to be overall a lot of questions where there is a high
likelihood that many participants will answer a different question than
what those designing the survey wanted to ask - due to unclear and
vague terminology for example and due to ambiguous references.

The question you referred to for example says

"Do you remotely map other countries?"

and it is unclear if the "other" refers to the country where you live or 
to "where do you map mostly".  Pure armchair mappers only mapping in a
single country might answer "No" to this question.

My main concern is rather that there are a lot of free form questions
yet there is no option for the participants to allow publication of the
individual free form answers in anonymized form.  This means we will -
just like in the previous survey - only learn about any of these
answers through the lens of the subjective interpretation of those
making the aggregation.  This provides a lot of room for distortion
through either cultural bias or deliberate selectivity of those doing
the aggregation which kind of defeats the whole idea of doing a survey
to reach parts of the community that are otherwise not visible.

In other words: What the survey says is you are welcome to provide your
ideas through the survey but we, the creators of the survey, reserve
the right to interpret your answers as we see fit and neither you nor
anyone else may correct us if we do not correctly interpret what you
wrote.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Frederik Ramm
In reply to this post by Christoph Hormann-2
Hi,

On 8/7/19 23:24, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> In other words: What the survey says is you are welcome to provide your
> ideas through the survey but we, the creators of the survey, reserve
> the right to interpret your answers as we see fit and neither you nor
> anyone else may correct us if we do not correctly interpret what you
> wrote.

I think that part of the motivation for doing surveys is that there was
a belief that some people don't want to say something in public e.g. on
a mailing list for fear of their opinion being challenged.

Of course, if you say your opinion through an intermediary, there is
*always* the risk of the intermediary deliberately or accidentally
misinterpreting our opinion. That's the downside, and the upside is you
get so say what you think without anyone challenging you about it. It's
a deal that you can take if you want; and if you don't want it then you
can *still* post your opinion on a mailing list or forum or your user
diary, where you can speak directly without being interpreted by an
intermediary - or even post your survey responses publicly like you did.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [hidden email]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Christoph Hormann-2
On Wednesday 07 August 2019, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> I think that part of the motivation for doing surveys is that there
> was a belief that some people don't want to say something in public
> e.g. on a mailing list for fear of their opinion being challenged.

The question is if this fear is about them being challenged or their
opinion being challenged.

The idea that there might be people who have (a) an interest in their
opinion being heard and at the same time (b) a fear of their opinion
being challenged even in anonymity (meaning that no one except them
knows it is their opinion) is intriguing.

Anyway - what i would have liked to see is the survey providing *the
option* for participants to allow the publication of their anonymized
individual answers, not *the requirement* to allow this.

> Of course, if you say your opinion through an intermediary, there is
> *always* the risk of the intermediary deliberately or accidentally
> misinterpreting our opinion. That's the downside, and the upside is
> you get so say what you think without anyone challenging you about
> it. It's a deal that you can take if you want; and if you don't want
> it then you can *still* post your opinion on a mailing list or forum
> or your user diary, where you can speak directly without being
> interpreted by an intermediary - or even post your survey responses
> publicly like you did.

By speaking directly and publishing my responses i risk being challenged
and criticized personally.  While i don't mind this there are
definitely a lot of people who don't want or can't do this.  And many
of them probably would not mind their answers being published
anonymously.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Mikel Maron-3
In reply to this post by Christoph Hormann-2
My main concern is rather that there are a lot of free form questions yet there is no option for the participants to allow publication of the individual free form answers in anonymized form. 

Select “publicly aggregated and anonymously” as answer to the first question and the free form answers will be published.

Mikel

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Christoph Hormann-2
On Thursday 08 August 2019, Mikel Maron wrote:
> > My main concern is rather that there are a lot of free form
> > questions yet there is no option for the participants to allow
> > publication of the individual free form answers in anonymized
> > form. 
>
> Select “publicly aggregated and anonymously” as answer to the first
> question and the free form answers will be published.

Aggregated means exactly the opposite.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Frederik Ramm
In reply to this post by Christoph Hormann-2
Hi,

On 08.08.19 00:52, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> By speaking directly and publishing my responses i risk being challenged
> and criticized personally.  While i don't mind this there are
> definitely a lot of people who don't want or can't do this.  And many
> of them probably would not mind their answers being published
> anonymously.

So essentially all you want is a fourth option in the initial
"Permission" question that is called

"Publicly, anonymized" ?

Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

Christoph Hormann-2
On Thursday 08 August 2019, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> > By speaking directly and publishing my responses i risk being
> > challenged and criticized personally.  While i don't mind this
> > there are definitely a lot of people who don't want or can't do
> > this.  And many of them probably would not mind their answers being
> > published anonymously.
>
> So essentially all you want is a fourth option in the initial
> "Permission" question that is called
>
> "Publicly, anonymized" ?

Yes, the logical choices that can be offered in a survey like this are
IMO:

* only allow publication of the statistically aggregated results (what
you usually have in an analysis of surveys, like percentages).  For
free form answers this requires subjective interpretation.

* allow anonymized publication of individual answers.  The anonymization
happens by disconnecting the individual answers from each other so
answers allowing the identification of a participants (like OSM user
name) cannot be connected to other answers.  In addition identifying
information could also be redacted from free form answers for
publication.

* allow full publication of the raw data (which is not really necessary
to provide as an option since this participants can easily do on their
own).

* optionally to either of these allow non-public dissemination of raw
data to certain parties.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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