Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

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Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Sebastian Arcus
I can't figure out what is the best way to tag the space outside a pub
with tables and seats for drinking and/or eating. On some pubs I've
marked it with leisure=garden (when it is surfaced with grass), but in
this instance the space is clearly asphalted - so do I still tag as
leisure=garden? I know the actual pub can have extra tags to indicate
that it has a beer garden - but as I've put the pub tag on the building
- what should I use for the space outside?

Or am I going about it all wrong? Should I just tag the entire area
(building + outside) as amenity=pub, and just tag the building with
building=yes only?

Sebastian

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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Tom Taylor-2
I would say the latter, but I'm a Newbie myself.

On 04/01/2013 3:07 PM, Sebastian Arcus wrote:

> I can't figure out what is the best way to tag the space outside a pub
> with tables and seats for drinking and/or eating. On some pubs I've
> marked it with leisure=garden (when it is surfaced with grass), but in
> this instance the space is clearly asphalted - so do I still tag as
> leisure=garden? I know the actual pub can have extra tags to indicate
> that it has a beer garden - but as I've put the pub tag on the building
> - what should I use for the space outside?
>
> Or am I going about it all wrong? Should I just tag the entire area
> (building + outside) as amenity=pub, and just tag the building with
> building=yes only?
>
> Sebastian
...

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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

sabas88
In reply to this post by Sebastian Arcus
2013/1/4 Sebastian Arcus <[hidden email]>
I can't figure out what is the best way to tag the space outside a pub with tables and seats for drinking and/or eating. On some pubs I've marked it with leisure=garden (when it is surfaced with grass), but in this instance the space is clearly asphalted - so do I still tag as leisure=garden? I know the actual pub can have extra tags to indicate that it has a beer garden - but as I've put the pub tag on the building - what should I use for the space outside?

In Italy we call that space dehors, it's required an authorization to have it..
I've tagged one as building=roof (cause was covered), but I don't see any tag that can fit..

Or am I going about it all wrong? Should I just tag the entire area (building + outside) as amenity=pub, and just tag the building with building=yes only?

Applying the pub on the entire area resolves the "who owns this dehors" problem I was considering... 

Sebastian

Regards,
Stefano 
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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Sebastian Arcus
On Fri, 2013-01-04 at 20:07 +0000, Sebastian Arcus wrote:

> I can't figure out what is the best way to tag the space outside a pub
> with tables and seats for drinking and/or eating. On some pubs I've
> marked it with leisure=garden (when it is surfaced with grass), but in
> this instance the space is clearly asphalted - so do I still tag as
> leisure=garden? I know the actual pub can have extra tags to indicate
> that it has a beer garden - but as I've put the pub tag on the building
> - what should I use for the space outside?
>
> Or am I going about it all wrong? Should I just tag the entire area
> (building + outside) as amenity=pub, and just tag the building with
> building=yes only?

Hi Sebastian
I have never got into this level, but I like the idea.

Have just done a search through taginfo.

Both beer_garden and outdoor_seating are widely used when attached to
either a pub node or pub building way.

I would try to stick with these, as mentioned in the
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dpub
and not use leisure=garden. To me that implies a public garden in a park
or stately home.

What I did find of interest is that landuse=beer_garden has been used 3
times so far to define the area, I would go for this.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/163409314
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178206414
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/174446013


In the case of a paved area, then I would suggest adopting
landuse=outdoor_seating. You could add something to show if it is
covered, or has heaters.

Unfortunately it doesn't render, so don't take this as the answer. It
could be worth asking this in the UK list, as its really a UK issue.

Cheers
Phil (trigpoint)




 


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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Sebastian Arcus
In reply to this post by sabas88
Thanks Tom and Stefano



On 04/01/13 20:55, sabas88 wrote:

> 2013/1/4 Sebastian Arcus <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     I can't figure out what is the best way to tag the space outside a
>     pub with tables and seats for drinking and/or eating. On some pubs
>     I've marked it with leisure=garden (when it is surfaced with grass),
>     but in this instance the space is clearly asphalted - so do I still
>     tag as leisure=garden? I know the actual pub can have extra tags to
>     indicate that it has a beer garden - but as I've put the pub tag on
>     the building - what should I use for the space outside?
>
>
> In Italy we call that space dehors, it's required an authorization to
> have it..
> I've tagged one as building=roof (cause was covered), but I don't see
> any tag that can fit..
>
>     Or am I going about it all wrong? Should I just tag the entire area
>     (building + outside) as amenity=pub, and just tag the building with
>     building=yes only?
>
>
> Applying the pub on the entire area resolves the "who owns this dehors"
> problem I was considering...
>
>
>     Sebastian
>
> Regards,
> Stefano
>
>     _________________________________________________
>     newbies mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     http://lists.openstreetmap.__org/listinfo/newbies
>     <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
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>


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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Cartinus
In reply to this post by Philip Barnes
On 01/04/2013 10:13 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> It
> could be worth asking this in the UK list, as its really a UK issue.

No, it's not. There are outdoor seating areas at eating and drinking
establishments the world over. There is nothing special about those next
to English pubs why they should be tagged any different.

--
---
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Sebastian Arcus
In reply to this post by Philip Barnes
On 04/01/13 21:13, Philip Barnes wrote:

> On Fri, 2013-01-04 at 20:07 +0000, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
>> I can't figure out what is the best way to tag the space outside a pub
>> with tables and seats for drinking and/or eating. On some pubs I've
>> marked it with leisure=garden (when it is surfaced with grass), but in
>> this instance the space is clearly asphalted - so do I still tag as
>> leisure=garden? I know the actual pub can have extra tags to indicate
>> that it has a beer garden - but as I've put the pub tag on the building
>> - what should I use for the space outside?
>>
>> Or am I going about it all wrong? Should I just tag the entire area
>> (building + outside) as amenity=pub, and just tag the building with
>> building=yes only?
>
> Hi Sebastian
> I have never got into this level, but I like the idea.
>
> Have just done a search through taginfo.
>
> Both beer_garden and outdoor_seating are widely used when attached to
> either a pub node or pub building way.
>
> I would try to stick with these, as mentioned in the
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dpub
> and not use leisure=garden. To me that implies a public garden in a park
> or stately home.
>
> What I did find of interest is that landuse=beer_garden has been used 3
> times so far to define the area, I would go for this.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/163409314
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178206414
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/174446013
>
>
> In the case of a paved area, then I would suggest adopting
> landuse=outdoor_seating. You could add something to show if it is
> covered, or has heaters.
>
> Unfortunately it doesn't render, so don't take this as the answer. It
> could be worth asking this in the UK list, as its really a UK issue.
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>

Thanks Phil. Unfortunately, I personally prefer to avoid tags which
don't render unless there is absolutely no other option. It seems a
little bit useless to put in all the work, and in the end it doesn't
show on the map. At least I think so :-)

I will probably attach the extra tags to the pub node or building.

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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Cartinus

 In most cases I have seen the outdoor seating as an area outside on the pavement, in public space.

A beer garden is Assn enclosed private area that I have never come across elsewhere, that is all. Out is something that would be nice if rendered on the map.


Phil

--

 

Sent from my Nokia N9

 


On 04/01/2013 21:22 Cartinus wrote:

On 01/04/2013 10:13 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> It
> could be worth asking this in the UK list, as its really a UK issue.

No, it's not. There are outdoor seating areas at eating and drinking
establishments the world over. There is nothing special about those next
to English pubs why they should be tagged any different.

--
---
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

SomeoneElse
In reply to this post by Sebastian Arcus
Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> Thanks Phil. Unfortunately, I personally prefer to avoid tags which
> don't render unless there is absolutely no other option.

You could argue that there's no such thing as a tag that doesn't render:

http://osm.dumoulin63.net/xapiviewer/?zoom=13&lat=52.92382&lon=-1.47997&layers=B0T&icon=icons%2Fpoi_point_of_interest.n.32.png&request=beer_garden%3Dyes

:-)

Cheers,
Andy


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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Stewart C. Russell
In reply to this post by Cartinus
On 04-01-13 16:22 , Cartinus wrote:
>
> There is nothing special about those next
> to English pubs why they should be tagged any different.

Actually, there is. The traditional beer garden in England and Wales
needs to be hidden from the street, as there were ordinances against
drinking in public.

cheers,
 Stewart


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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

Cartinus
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_garden>

I can't add anything to that.

--
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Cartinus

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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

John F. Eldredge
In reply to this post by Philip Barnes
Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

 In most cases I have seen the outdoor seating as an area outside on the pavement, in public space.

A beer garden is Assn enclosed private area that I have never come across elsewhere, that is all. Out is something that would be nice if rendered on the map.


Phil

--

 

Sent from my Nokia N9

 


On 04/01/2013 21:22 Cartinus wrote:

On 01/04/2013 10:13 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> It
> could be worth asking this in the UK list, as its really a UK issue.

No, it's not. There are outdoor seating areas at eating and drinking
establishments the world over. There is nothing special about those next
to English pubs why they should be tagged any different.


In the USA, you see both the public-space version of outdoor seating and the private-space version, so it isn't only a UK question. The beer gardens in German pubs are world-famous.

--
John F. Eldredge -- [hidden email]
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: Tag to map drinking terrace next to the pub?

John F. Eldredge
In reply to this post by Stewart C. Russell
"Stewart C. Russell" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 04-01-13 16:22 , Cartinus wrote:
> >
> > There is nothing special about those next
> > to English pubs why they should be tagged any different.
>
> Actually, there is. The traditional beer garden in England and Wales
> needs to be hidden from the street, as there were ordinances against
> drinking in public.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Why does a beer garden that is not visible from the street need to be tagged differently than one which is visible from the street?

--
John F. Eldredge -- [hidden email]
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


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