Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

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Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Alex Sims
I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.

There is a relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 for the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.

It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway 

This is now propagating on to assorted apps as well as the slippy map and I’m finding it confusing.

I’m not sure if it should be
- deleted as it is not “on the ground” and verifiable
- made into a “ref” tag, like a highway alternative name, e.g A1, B2, C3
- something else.

I do find it a bit odd though as in the parts through Adelaide there is no signage, so it is more of an administrative feature like a suburb boundary but even less so. It only has use once a year and it is more the route of an event. I see the various odd shaped vehicles go by, but the road is not closed, it is more a cavalcade of vehicles passing along normal highways, subject to normal highway rules

Thoughts, suggestions?

Alex

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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Nevw
I am quite ok with the tagging as the individual ways that make up the route have not been altered.
The relation maps out the route of the Solar Challenge Race. The route as I see it serves a dual purpose during the period of the race. The Solar Challenge vehicles, though racing within strict rules of the public roads are never the less in a Solar Race against time and the usual road users are following their normal highway route. There is likely some interaction between both road users during this time and the normal users are likely to benefit  from being able to view the route on the osm as it is currently mapped as well as other international interest in the race.
Nev 
On 19 May 2017, at 8:19 PM, Alex Sims <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.

There is a relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 for the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.

It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway 

This is now propagating on to assorted apps as well as the slippy map and I’m finding it confusing.

I’m not sure if it should be
- deleted as it is not “on the ground” and verifiable
- made into a “ref” tag, like a highway alternative name, e.g A1, B2, C3
- something else.

I do find it a bit odd though as in the parts through Adelaide there is no signage, so it is more of an administrative feature like a suburb boundary but even less so. It only has use once a year and it is more the route of an event. I see the various odd shaped vehicles go by, but the road is not closed, it is more a cavalcade of vehicles passing along normal highways, subject to normal highway rules

Thoughts, suggestions?

Alex
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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Alex Sims
I should have been a little clearer,

Each element now has two attributes highway=raceway and highway=primary, a single way should only have one highway attribute.

The tagging guidelines https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Draceway seem to imply its an either/or thing. I’m searching for a tag other than “highway=raceway” to apply to the relation, like a bus route for example.

Alex
On 19 May 2017, at 8:12 pm, nwastra <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am quite ok with the tagging as the individual ways that make up the route have not been altered.
The relation maps out the route of the Solar Challenge Race. The route as I see it serves a dual purpose during the period of the race. The Solar Challenge vehicles, though racing within strict rules of the public roads are never the less in a Solar Race against time and the usual road users are following their normal highway route. There is likely some interaction between both road users during this time and the normal users are likely to benefit  from being able to view the route on the osm as it is currently mapped as well as other international interest in the race.
Nev 
On 19 May 2017, at 8:19 PM, Alex Sims <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.

There is a relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 for the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.

It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway 

This is now propagating on to assorted apps as well as the slippy map and I’m finding it confusing.

I’m not sure if it should be
- deleted as it is not “on the ground” and verifiable
- made into a “ref” tag, like a highway alternative name, e.g A1, B2, C3
- something else.

I do find it a bit odd though as in the parts through Adelaide there is no signage, so it is more of an administrative feature like a suburb boundary but even less so. It only has use once a year and it is more the route of an event. I see the various odd shaped vehicles go by, but the road is not closed, it is more a cavalcade of vehicles passing along normal highways, subject to normal highway rules


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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Nevw
In reply to this post by Nevw
I would like to see additional tags to specify the period that the World Solar Challenge route is being used for the actual race.
Not so sure about the route relation remaining as a mapped entity after the race is completed but do not really see a reason why is should not be permanently mapped and updated and rerouted as it changes each year.
Will be interesting to see others comments on the mapping of this race route. 
Nev
On 19 May 2017, at 8:42 PM, nwastra <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am quite ok with the tagging as the individual ways that make up the route have not been altered.
The relation maps out the route of the Solar Challenge Race. The route as I see it serves a dual purpose during the period of the race. The Solar Challenge vehicles, though racing within strict rules of the public roads are never the less in a Solar Race against time and the usual road users are following their normal highway route. There is likely some interaction between both road users during this time and the normal users are likely to benefit  from being able to view the route on the osm as it is currently mapped as well as other international interest in the race.
Nev 
On 19 May 2017, at 8:19 PM, Alex Sims <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.

There is a relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 for the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.

It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway 

This is now propagating on to assorted apps as well as the slippy map and I’m finding it confusing.

I’m not sure if it should be
- deleted as it is not “on the ground” and verifiable
- made into a “ref” tag, like a highway alternative name, e.g A1, B2, C3
- something else.

I do find it a bit odd though as in the parts through Adelaide there is no signage, so it is more of an administrative feature like a suburb boundary but even less so. It only has use once a year and it is more the route of an event. I see the various odd shaped vehicles go by, but the road is not closed, it is more a cavalcade of vehicles passing along normal highways, subject to normal highway rules

Thoughts, suggestions?

Alex
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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Warin
In reply to this post by Alex Sims
On 19-May-17 08:19 PM, Alex Sims wrote:
> I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.
>
> There is a relation
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 for
> the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.
>
> It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway
I would delete the tag 'highway=raceway' ... not good.
>
> This is now propagating on to assorted apps as well as the slippy map
> and I’m finding it confusing.
>
> I’m not sure if it should be
> - deleted as it is not “on the ground” and verifiable
> - made into a “ref” tag, like a highway alternative name, e.g A1, B2, C3
> - something else.

It is a route and suitable  as a relation. I would tend to encourage the
use of OSM, rather than see them go to gxxxle ...

>
> I do find it a bit odd though as in the parts through Adelaide there
> is no signage, so it is more of an administrative feature like a
> suburb boundary but even less so. It only has use once a year and it
> is more the route of an event. I see the various odd shaped vehicles
> go by, but the road is not closed, it is more a cavalcade of vehicles
> passing along normal highways, subject to normal highway rules
>
> Thoughts, suggestions?

Perhaps
route=solar_challenge ? rather than route=raceway ...
opening_hours="October to December" might be a reasonable addition.

They do have similar events elsewhere  ... I would like to see them use
OSM too.

I have raised this on the tagging group to see if they have any
'international' ideas.

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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Nevw
In reply to this post by Alex Sims
Perhaps this could be seen as a special case and a valid exception to the usual tagging rules applied. 
Nev
On 19 May 2017, at 8:53 PM, Alex Sims <[hidden email]> wrote:

I should have been a little clearer,

Each element now has two attributes highway=raceway and highway=primary, a single way should only have one highway attribute.

The tagging guidelines https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Draceway seem to imply its an either/or thing. I’m searching for a tag other than “highway=raceway” to apply to the relation, like a bus route for example.

Alex
On 19 May 2017, at 8:12 pm, nwastra <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am quite ok with the tagging as the individual ways that make up the route have not been altered.
The relation maps out the route of the Solar Challenge Race. The route as I see it serves a dual purpose during the period of the race. The Solar Challenge vehicles, though racing within strict rules of the public roads are never the less in a Solar Race against time and the usual road users are following their normal highway route. There is likely some interaction between both road users during this time and the normal users are likely to benefit  from being able to view the route on the osm as it is currently mapped as well as other international interest in the race.
Nev 
On 19 May 2017, at 8:19 PM, Alex Sims <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.

There is a relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 for the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.

It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway 

This is now propagating on to assorted apps as well as the slippy map and I’m finding it confusing.

I’m not sure if it should be
- deleted as it is not “on the ground” and verifiable
- made into a “ref” tag, like a highway alternative name, e.g A1, B2, C3
- something else.

I do find it a bit odd though as in the parts through Adelaide there is no signage, so it is more of an administrative feature like a suburb boundary but even less so. It only has use once a year and it is more the route of an event. I see the various odd shaped vehicles go by, but the road is not closed, it is more a cavalcade of vehicles passing along normal highways, subject to normal highway rules



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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Warin
In reply to this post by Nevw
On 19-May-17 08:54 PM, nwastra wrote:
> I would like to see additional tags to specify the period that the
> World Solar Challenge route is being used for the actual race.
> Not so sure about the route relation remaining as a mapped entity
> after the race is completed but do not really see a reason why is
> should not be permanently mapped and updated and rerouted as it
> changes each year.
> Will be interesting to see others comments on the mapping of this race
> route.

It is not run every year ... far too costly for that ... cost to the
competitors that is.

Route.. over most of the course there is little choice!
They do try to avoid hills - too much power required.
Where it goes through major towns I think they do get traffic control ..
at least in part.

As the roads, for the most part, are not closed to normal traffic .. it
is not strictly a 'raceway'.


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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Andy Townsend
In reply to this post by Alex Sims
On 19/05/2017 11:19, Alex Sims wrote:
> I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.
>
> There is a relation
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 for
> the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.
>
> It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway

I don't think that it makes sense to tag the _relation_ as
highway=raceway , although some individual ways might be - most of the
time it isn't a raceway.  See the Singapore GP circuit as an example:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/421263

That relation has broken bits, but you can see "dedicated raceway" bits
by the pit complex and "ordinary highways" elsewhere.

Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

Warin
On 19-May-17 09:30 PM, Andy Townsend wrote:

> On 19/05/2017 11:19, Alex Sims wrote:
>> I’m not quite sure how to resolve this.
>>
>> There is a relation
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7107501#map=5/-24.173/134.723 
>> for the World Solar Challenge that runs from Darwin to Adelaide.
>>
>> It is a relation tagged as highway=raceway
>
> I don't think that it makes sense to tag the _relation_ as
> highway=raceway , although some individual ways might be - most of the
> time it isn't a raceway.  See the Singapore GP circuit as an example:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/421263
>
> That relation has broken bits, but you can see "dedicated raceway"
> bits by the pit complex and "ordinary highways" elsewhere.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy

The Isle of Man TT is another ..
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/188240
Relation: Snaefell Mountain Course (188240)
Tags:
     "length"="60.73 km"
     "name"="Snaefell Mountain Course"
     "wikipedia"="en:Snaefell Mountain Course"
     "type"="circuit"

Bathurst?
Relation: Mount Panorama Circuit (6942508)
Tags:
     "name"="Mount Panorama Circuit"
     "wikidata"="Q1950645"
     "wikipedia"="en:Mount Panorama Circuit"

type=circuit has a proposal ..
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Circuit
I'll add "type"="circuit" to the Mount Panorama Circuit relation.

Taginfo has 100 uses of type=circuit so there are a few of these around.



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Re: Tagging - World Solar Challenge - Darwin to Adelaide

brycenesbitt
This seems like exactly the type of data that can be mapped with a mashup.

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