Tagging a St John's Ambulance base

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Tagging a St John's Ambulance base

Ben Proctor
Hello mapping people

There is a building and yard in Hereford used by St John's Ambulance. The building functions as a meeting venue (like a scout hut but for St John's) and some vehicles are stored in the yard.


How would you tag this? 

It's currently amenity=doctors which doesn't seem right. emergency=ambulance_station doesn't seem to describe this use.

I was heading down amenity=community_centre route but I'm not sure that's right either.

A quick search for St John's Ambulance reveals a wider range of approaches in other areas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks


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Re: Tagging a St John's Ambulance base

Mark Goodge


On 10/07/2019 19:08, Ben Proctor wrote:

> Hello mapping people
>
> There is a building and yard in Hereford used by St John's Ambulance.
> The building functions as a meeting venue (like a scout hut but for St
> John's) and some vehicles are stored in the yard.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.06051/-2.71419
>
> How would you tag this?
>
> It's currently amenity=doctors which doesn't seem right.
> emergency=ambulance_station doesn't seem to describe this use.
>
> I was heading down amenity=community_centre route but I'm not sure
> that's right either.
>
> A quick search for St John's Ambulance reveals a wider range of
> approaches in other areas.

I'd be inclined to go for community centre, in this case. It isn't an
emergency ambulance station, which is what the
emergency=ambulance_station tag is for (and, in any case, is rapidly
becoming obsolete with the new distributed means of organising an
ambulance service), and it isn't a doctor or a clinic either. And the
main purpose of the building (as opposed to the yard) is for things like
first aid training (both for St John volunteers themselves and the wider
community). So a community centre is probably closest.

Mark

Mark

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Re: Tagging a St John's Ambulance base

Great Britain mailing list
Personally, I would have thought of it as a club, in which first aid is taught, as a hobby ( No offence intended to any St John volunteers)

Peter


On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 at 20:30, Mark Goodge


On 10/07/2019 19:08, Ben Proctor wrote:

> Hello mapping people
>
> There is a building and yard in Hereford used by St John's Ambulance.
> The building functions as a meeting venue (like a scout hut but for St
> John's) and some vehicles are stored in the yard.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.06051/-2.71419
>
> How would you tag this?
>
> It's currently amenity=doctors which doesn't seem right.
> emergency=ambulance_station doesn't seem to describe this use.
>
> I was heading down amenity=community_centre route but I'm not sure
> that's right either.
>
> A quick search for St John's Ambulance reveals a wider range of
> approaches in other areas.

I'd be inclined to go for community centre, in this case. It isn't an
emergency ambulance station, which is what the
emergency=ambulance_station tag is for (and, in any case, is rapidly
becoming obsolete with the new distributed means of organising an
ambulance service), and it isn't a doctor or a clinic either. And the
main purpose of the building (as opposed to the yard) is for things like
first aid training (both for St John volunteers themselves and the wider
community). So a community centre is probably closest.

Mark

Mark


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Re: Tagging a St John's Ambulance base

Great Britain mailing list
...Or, looking at their website, it is a charity, so perhaps that makes it a "social facility"?

Oh BTW, it is "St John Ambulance", not "St John's Ambulance" (I don't know why, but it is...)

Regards,
Peter Neale
t: 01908 309666
m: 07968 341930
skype: nealepb


On Wednesday, 10 July 2019, 21:20:36 BST, Peter Neale via Talk-GB <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I would have thought of it as a club, in which first aid is taught, as a hobby ( No offence intended to any St John volunteers)

Peter


On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 at 20:30, Mark Goodge


On 10/07/2019 19:08, Ben Proctor wrote:

> Hello mapping people
>
> There is a building and yard in Hereford used by St John's Ambulance.
> The building functions as a meeting venue (like a scout hut but for St
> John's) and some vehicles are stored in the yard.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.06051/-2.71419
>
> How would you tag this?
>
> It's currently amenity=doctors which doesn't seem right.
> emergency=ambulance_station doesn't seem to describe this use.
>
> I was heading down amenity=community_centre route but I'm not sure
> that's right either.
>
> A quick search for St John's Ambulance reveals a wider range of
> approaches in other areas.

I'd be inclined to go for community centre, in this case. It isn't an
emergency ambulance station, which is what the
emergency=ambulance_station tag is for (and, in any case, is rapidly
becoming obsolete with the new distributed means of organising an
ambulance service), and it isn't a doctor or a clinic either. And the
main purpose of the building (as opposed to the yard) is for things like
first aid training (both for St John volunteers themselves and the wider
community). So a community centre is probably closest.

Mark

Mark


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Re: Tagging a St John's Ambulance base

Ben Proctor
Thanks both

On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 at 21:53, Peter Neale via Talk-GB <[hidden email]> wrote:
...Or, looking at their website, it is a charity, so perhaps that makes it a "social facility"?

Oh BTW, it is "St John Ambulance", not "St John's Ambulance" (I don't know why, but it is...)

Regards,
Peter Neale
t: 01908 309666
m: 07968 341930
skype: nealepb


On Wednesday, 10 July 2019, 21:20:36 BST, Peter Neale via Talk-GB <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I would have thought of it as a club, in which first aid is taught, as a hobby ( No offence intended to any St John volunteers)

Peter


On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 at 20:30, Mark Goodge


On 10/07/2019 19:08, Ben Proctor wrote:

> Hello mapping people
>
> There is a building and yard in Hereford used by St John's Ambulance.
> The building functions as a meeting venue (like a scout hut but for St
> John's) and some vehicles are stored in the yard.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.06051/-2.71419
>
> How would you tag this?
>
> It's currently amenity=doctors which doesn't seem right.
> emergency=ambulance_station doesn't seem to describe this use.
>
> I was heading down amenity=community_centre route but I'm not sure
> that's right either.
>
> A quick search for St John's Ambulance reveals a wider range of
> approaches in other areas.

I'd be inclined to go for community centre, in this case. It isn't an
emergency ambulance station, which is what the
emergency=ambulance_station tag is for (and, in any case, is rapidly
becoming obsolete with the new distributed means of organising an
ambulance service), and it isn't a doctor or a clinic either. And the
main purpose of the building (as opposed to the yard) is for things like
first aid training (both for St John volunteers themselves and the wider
community). So a community centre is probably closest.

Mark

Mark


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--
Ben Proctor, Technical Director

The Satori Lab, 22 Windsor Place Cardiff. CF10 3BY Wales, UK

[hidden email] | @likeaword | 07904 1234 98 | LinkedIn

We help public servants with data, design and system change challenges





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How to Fix a "Fix-Me"

Great Britain mailing list
If this is not the correct place / route to seek assistance with this issue, please advise me where to go.

I see that, on a new housing estate near me, there are a number of "Fix Me" tags on highway=residential, which I would like to fix.  

The tags all say, "noexit? turning_circle? stub?"

These are all streets that link to only one other highway, mostly highway=tertiary (i.e. they are cul de sacs / dead ends).

Where the highway=residential is mapped as a single line, I can see that it would be sensible to mark whether there is a turning circle, or turning loop, at the end and, if there is no exit by vehicle, bicycle, or on foot, to mark it as "noexit".  

However, where there is a turning loop, which is already mapped as a looped highway, I don't understand what the "FixMe" is asking for.  See, for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5111774622


"Draw a closed highway=* way around the traffic island and connect it to the main road, giving it the same name. If traffic is required to flow in a particular direction around the traffic island, add oneway=yes. This method is preferred for large turning circles, because navigation applications decide whether the user is on- or off-route based on their distance from the roadway. This method also makes it possible to accurately map features inside the loop, such as parking spaces, trees, or a flagpole.
If a turning loop has been mapped as a way, do not remap it as a simple node, as that would remove detail from the map."

Are these "FixMe"s generated automatically?  Can I just delete the "FixMe" in these cases?

I would be grateful for any advice.

Peter




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Re: How to Fix a "Fix-Me"

sk53.osm
Hi Peter,

These very much look like fixmes which got forgotten. They do not show up directly in many editors (and only recently in iD). In this case all the ones you mention look to have been fully resolved by the existing mapping. In that case it's safe just to remove the fixmes, which is good because it stops others thinking this area needs a visit.

Obviously not every case is likely to be so clear cut. I suspect many of us leave fixme tags if we are not absolutely sure that they have been resolved: a false positive signal is better than a false negative one. However, with more in-editor QA we may need to be more pro-active in checking for fixmes which are no longer relevant.

It's always a good policy if unsure to start a discussion on the changeset where the fixme tags were created. Often fixme tags are somewhat terse. A direct question to the original author may elicit which information they really felt they were lacking at the time. For instance in a case like this I presume aerial imagery with the new roads was not available, or that it only showed the area during construction. If someone walked or cycled through to get GPS tracks they may not have been able to survey many of the nuances of the site. 

Personally I try and add multiple source tags to give an idea of what information I used. For instance I have recently been adding footpaths which I have seen leading of country roads in Yorkshire & Denbighshire. I know where the path starts, what type of PRoW the path is and roughly where it heads. Additional information I cull from old out-of-copyright maps & aerial images, so the actual true alignment of the path is always an approximation. If someone walks the path, GPS traces become available etc, then the fixme can be removed & the source:geometry tag updated.

Regards,

Jerry

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 at 18:43, Peter Neale via Talk-GB <[hidden email]> wrote:
If this is not the correct place / route to seek assistance with this issue, please advise me where to go.

I see that, on a new housing estate near me, there are a number of "Fix Me" tags on highway=residential, which I would like to fix.  

The tags all say, "noexit? turning_circle? stub?"

These are all streets that link to only one other highway, mostly highway=tertiary (i.e. they are cul de sacs / dead ends).

Where the highway=residential is mapped as a single line, I can see that it would be sensible to mark whether there is a turning circle, or turning loop, at the end and, if there is no exit by vehicle, bicycle, or on foot, to mark it as "noexit".  

However, where there is a turning loop, which is already mapped as a looped highway, I don't understand what the "FixMe" is asking for.  See, for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5111774622


"Draw a closed highway=* way around the traffic island and connect it to the main road, giving it the same name. If traffic is required to flow in a particular direction around the traffic island, add oneway=yes. This method is preferred for large turning circles, because navigation applications decide whether the user is on- or off-route based on their distance from the roadway. This method also makes it possible to accurately map features inside the loop, such as parking spaces, trees, or a flagpole.
If a turning loop has been mapped as a way, do not remap it as a simple node, as that would remove detail from the map."

Are these "FixMe"s generated automatically?  Can I just delete the "FixMe" in these cases?

I would be grateful for any advice.

Peter



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Re: How to Fix a "Fix-Me"

Michael Booth
In reply to this post by Great Britain mailing list
Looks like the fixme was added to the end node of that road when it was first created, and then the person who added the loop probably didn't realise it was there so it remained.

If you look at the node history and the changeset where it was created, you can see the loop being added and the fixme staying on the node: https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=52127592

In case you're not aware, you can use tools like Keepright to locate fixme tags, and then try to fix the problem or even remove the tag if you're sure there's no issue: https://www.keepright.at/report_map.php?zoom=14&lat=52.03865&lon=-0.71392&layers=B0T&ch=0%2C170&show_ign=1&show_tmpign=1

Personally, for things that need a survey I prefer using OSM notes as they are accessible on osm.org so you don't need a QA tool to check if there's something worth surveying in your area when out and about.

On 31/07/2019 18:42, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:
If this is not the correct place / route to seek assistance with this issue, please advise me where to go.

I see that, on a new housing estate near me, there are a number of "Fix Me" tags on highway=residential, which I would like to fix.  

The tags all say, "noexit? turning_circle? stub?"

These are all streets that link to only one other highway, mostly highway=tertiary (i.e. they are cul de sacs / dead ends).

Where the highway=residential is mapped as a single line, I can see that it would be sensible to mark whether there is a turning circle, or turning loop, at the end and, if there is no exit by vehicle, bicycle, or on foot, to mark it as "noexit".  

However, where there is a turning loop, which is already mapped as a looped highway, I don't understand what the "FixMe" is asking for.  See, for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5111774622


"Draw a closed highway=* way around the traffic island and connect it to the main road, giving it the same name. If traffic is required to flow in a particular direction around the traffic island, add oneway=yes. This method is preferred for large turning circles, because navigation applications decide whether the user is on- or off-route based on their distance from the roadway. This method also makes it possible to accurately map features inside the loop, such as parking spaces, trees, or a flagpole.
If a turning loop has been mapped as a way, do not remap it as a simple node, as that would remove detail from the map."

Are these "FixMe"s generated automatically?  Can I just delete the "FixMe" in these cases?

I would be grateful for any advice.

Peter




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