[Tagging} no stopping, no parking

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[Tagging} no stopping, no parking

voschix
Why are "stopping=yes|no" and "parking=yes|no" (and variants of these) not in use in OSM?
But the much more complex "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" and "parking:lane:both=no_parking" are in use with the same meaning.

Volker

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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

Tagging mailing list
Have you considered how other, more complex, situations would be tagged?
Would it be possible to tag this in consistent way?

Note also that "stopping=yes|no" is unclear and "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" is
clear.

(note I have not checked whatever this tags are used as you say)

Feb 10, 2020, 19:29 by [hidden email]:
Why are "stopping=yes|no" and "parking=yes|no" (and variants of these) not in use in OSM?
But the much more complex "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" and "parking:lane:both=no_parking" are in use with the same meaning.

Volker


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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

voschix
(I am looking at these tags for the first time, so please forgive me if I am asking newbie questions)

Apart form being somewhat contradictory to have a parking lane on which you cannot park, this tagging scheme seems to have a basic flaw:
It cannot distinguish from this tagging between
       there is a lane along the road, but I am not allowed to park/stop on it (i.e. it's an emergency lane)
and
       there is no additional lane and I am not allowed to park/stop on the road
I would need an additional shoulder=yes|no to distinguish between the two cases.





On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 20:43, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> wrote:
Have you considered how other, more complex, situations would be tagged?
Would it be possible to tag this in consistent way?

Note also that "stopping=yes|no" is unclear and "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" is
clear.

(note I have not checked whatever this tags are used as you say)

Feb 10, 2020, 19:29 by [hidden email]:
Why are "stopping=yes|no" and "parking=yes|no" (and variants of these) not in use in OSM?
But the much more complex "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" and "parking:lane:both=no_parking" are in use with the same meaning.

Volker

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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Tagging mailing list


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 10 feb 2020, alle ore 20:43, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> Note also that "stopping=yes|no" is unclear and "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" is
> clear.


yes, clear madness ;-)
 Why would we describe a place beneath or on the road where you cannot even stop as “parking lane”?

Cheers Martin


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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

voschix
This is a pity as the no-parking and in particular the no-stopping information is important to understand the traffic flow in a street.
I have come across this problem as I am working on instructions how to tag streets form a cyclist point of view. One of the things is to understand if there are cars parked/stopped or not on the road. If there are there is always the risk of "dooring" and hence the street is less suitable for cyclists.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 21:51, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 10 feb 2020, alle ore 20:43, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> Note also that "stopping=yes|no" is unclear and "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" is
> clear.


yes, clear madness ;-)
 Why would we describe a place beneath or on the road where you cannot even stop as “parking lane”?

Cheers Martin


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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

Robert Skedgell
I am starting to tag parking:lane:*=* on a cycle route in London for
which I have just uploaded Mapillary images. The potential risk of
"dooring" and the hope that routing engines may in future be able to
make use of this information.

--
Robert Skedgell (rskedgell)

On 10/02/2020 20:56, Volker Schmidt wrote:

> This is a pity as the no-parking and in particular the no-stopping
> information is important to understand the traffic flow in a street.
> I have come across this problem as I am working on instructions how to
> tag streets form a cyclist point of view. One of the things is to
> understand if there are cars parked/stopped or not on the road. If there
> are there is always the risk of "dooring" and hence the street is less
> suitable for cyclists.
>
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 21:51, Martin Koppenhoefer
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     sent from a phone
>
>     > Il giorno 10 feb 2020, alle ore 20:43, Mateusz Konieczny via
>     Tagging <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> ha scritto:
>     >
>     > Note also that "stopping=yes|no" is unclear and
>     "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" is
>     > clear.
>
>
>     yes, clear madness ;-)
>      Why would we describe a place beneath or on the road where you
>     cannot even stop as “parking lane”?
>
>     Cheers Martin
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Tagging mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>


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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by voschix


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 10 feb 2020, alle ore 21:57, Volker Schmidt <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> This is a pity as the no-parking and in particular the no-stopping information is important to understand the traffic flow in a street.


yes, 60% of all parking_lane:both values are either no_parking or no_stopping ;-)

Cheers Martin



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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

Andrew Davidson-3
In reply to this post by voschix
On 11/2/20 7:09 am, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> It cannot distinguish from this tagging between
>         there is a lane along the road, but I am not allowed to
> park/stop on it (i.e. it's an emergency lane)

Do you mean a lane that is reserved for emergency vehicles or a lane
that can be used by vehicles in an emergency?


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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

Jarek Piórkowski
In reply to this post by voschix
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 13:29, Volker Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Why are "stopping=yes|no" and "parking=yes|no" (and variants of these) not in use in OSM?
> But the much more complex "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" and "parking:lane:both=no_parking" are in use with the same meaning.

Because parking:lane:both=no_parking is part of a tagging schema that
allows consistently tagging more complex values, such as:

parking:lane:right=parallel
parking:condition:right=no_stopping
parking:condition:right:time_interval=Mo-Fr 07:00-09:00
parking:condition:right:2=ticket
parking:condition:right:2:time_interval=Mo-Fr 09:00-21:00; Sa
08:00-21:00; Su 13:00-21:00

or

parking:lane:right=no_parking
parking:lane:left=parallel
parking:condition:left=free
parking:condition:left:maxstay=1 h
parking:condition:left:time_interval=08:00-18:00

--Jarek

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Re: [Tagging} no stopping, no parking

Jarek Piórkowski
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 18:32, Jarek Piórkowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 13:29, Volker Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Why are "stopping=yes|no" and "parking=yes|no" (and variants of these) not in use in OSM?
> > But the much more complex "parking:lane:both=no_stopping" and "parking:lane:both=no_parking" are in use with the same meaning.
>
> Because parking:lane:both=no_parking is part of a tagging schema that
> allows consistently tagging more complex values, such as:
>
> parking:lane:right=parallel
> parking:condition:right=no_stopping
> parking:condition:right:time_interval=Mo-Fr 07:00-09:00
> parking:condition:right:2=ticket
> parking:condition:right:2:time_interval=Mo-Fr 09:00-21:00; Sa
> 08:00-21:00; Su 13:00-21:00
>
> or
>
> parking:lane:right=no_parking
> parking:lane:left=parallel
> parking:condition:left=free
> parking:condition:left:maxstay=1 h
> parking:condition:left:time_interval=08:00-18:00

... and to expand on this a little bit: around here at least, I am
under the impression most of this parking information was added based
on streetside imagery by people working on behalf of organizations who
are interested in parking and stopping conditions. For a variety of
reasons these organizations aren't interested in sections that are a
plain "no parking" always on both sides of the street, and instead are
more interested in more complex situations. So that might be part of
why the simple tags didn't get used as much.

--Jarek

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