Tagging of bullrings

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
15 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Tagging of bullrings

dcapillae
Hi,

I would like to ask you about the best tagging for a bullring:

leisure=stadium
stadium=bullring

or

leisure=stadium
stadium=bull_ring

or

leisure=stadium
sport=bullfighting (in use)

I haven't considered "leisure=bullring". Some mappers use this tag to
map bullrings, but I think it's better "leisure=stadium". Obviously a
bullring is a type of stadium.

I'm not interested in the controversy about bullfights, I just want to
know what tags I should use to map a bullring as best as possible.

Thank you for your comments.

Greetings from Spain.

Regards,
Daniel


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

Jmapb
On 7/31/2019 1:19 PM, dcapillae wrote:

> leisure=stadium
> sport=bullfighting (in use)
>
Hi Daniel -- definitely this one: leisure=stadium + sport=bullfighting. 
You might also want to use the building=stadium tag, if the stadium
occupies the entire building in question (assuming it's in a building --
I'm guessing they all are but I'm not too familiar with bullfighting
stadia.)

Jason


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dcapillae
Thank you, Jason.

Then, tagging of bullrings might be something like this:

leisure=stadium
+ sport=bullfighting
+ name=*

For the pitch (ruedo),
leisure=pitch
+ sport=bullfighting
+ surface=sand

For the building,
building=stadium
+ sport=bullfighting

There's a lot of confusion on the map about how to map a bullring. I
have documented the "sport=bullfighting" tag. It was in use, but
undocumented: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dbullfighting

This feature has no feature page in the wiki because it is not an
independent feature. A bullring is a type of stadium
("leisure=stadium"). Would it be convenient to add some reference on the
page of the "leisure=stadium"?

I've also added a new "how to map a" here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_to_map_a#Bullring

Will that be enough?

Thanks again.

Regards,
Daniel


El 31/7/19 a las 19:37, Jmapb escribió:

> On 7/31/2019 1:19 PM, dcapillae wrote:
>
>> leisure=stadium
>> sport=bullfighting (in use)
>>
> Hi Daniel -- definitely this one: leisure=stadium + sport=bullfighting.
> You might also want to use the building=stadium tag, if the stadium
> occupies the entire building in question (assuming it's in a building --
> I'm guessing they all are but I'm not too familiar with bullfighting
> stadia.)
>
> Jason
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 2. Aug 2019, at 08:41, dcapillae <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Then, tagging of bullrings might be something like this:
>
> leisure=stadium
> + sport=bullfighting
> + name=*
>
> For the pitch (ruedo),
> leisure=pitch
> + sport=bullfighting
> + surface=sand
>
> For the building,
> building=stadium
> + sport=bullfighting


+1, seems in line with the established system, at least if you consider it a sport

Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dcapillae
Thank you, Martin.

I think it's the right thing to do, too.

I have asked the OSM community in Spain and it seems that some mapper prefer
"building=bullring" instead of "building=stadium". I think the right tag is
"building=stadium" because we use this tag for stadiums, no matter what type
of stadium they are, and a bullring is a stadium. However, I guess there's
not much difference.

Thank for commenting.

Regards,
Daniel



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 5. Aug 2019, at 01:09, dcapillae <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have asked the OSM community in Spain and it seems that some mapper prefer
> "building=bullring" instead of "building=stadium". I think the right tag is
> "building=stadium" because we use this tag for stadiums, no matter what type
> of stadium they are, and a bullring is a stadium. However, I guess there's
> not much difference.


I would also prefer either building=bullring or maybe we need a stadium=* tag.

Cheers Martin


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dcapillae
dieterdreist wrote
> I would also prefer either building=bullring or maybe we need a stadium=*
> tag.

Yes, my first idea was to use a "stadium" subtag. This solution is barely
used, so I dismissed the idea.

I preferred "building=stadium" + "stadium=bullring" to "building=bullring"
if some of these solutions were used. However, the problem with bullrings in
Spain is that each mapper was mapping them differently. The proposed
solution, in line with the established system, would probably solve the
problem.

Greetings for Spain, and thank you for commenting.

Regards,
Daniel



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

Jmapb
In reply to this post by dcapillae
On 8/4/2019 7:09 PM, dcapillae wrote
> I have asked the OSM community in Spain and it seems that some mapper prefer
> "building=bullring" instead of "building=stadium". I think the right tag is
> "building=stadium" because we use this tag for stadiums, no matter what type
> of stadium they are, and a bullring is a stadium. However, I guess there's
> not much difference.

The question as I see it is: When you look at the building in question,
do you think "this building looks like a bullring" or do you think "this
building looks like a stadium, and bullfighting is the primary sport here"?

I don't know if there's a distinct style of traditional bullring
architecture, but if there is, then building=bullring makes sense for
those. (And in fact such buildings might still be tagged
building=bullring even if bullfighting no longer happens there.)

Furthermore, if a more generic-looking stadium were built that was not
in the distinctive bullring style, but was still primary used for
bullfights, then building=stadium might be a better choice for that one.

J


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dcapillae
Hi,


Jmapb wrote
> I don't know if there's a distinct style of traditional bullring
> architecture, but if there is, then building=bullring makes sense for
> those.

Not much difference. For example, in Spain, tennis matches are played in
bullrings. They are suitable for other types of sports. Live concerts are
also performed in bullrings.


Jmapb wrote
> And in fact such buildings might still be tagged building=bullring even if
> bullfighting no longer happens there.

That's right. One thing is the arena where bullfighting is performed.
("leisure=stadium" + "sport=bullfighting") and another the building
("building=stadium"). It has been hard for me to explain to the Spanish
community that the stadium is still a stadium even though bullfights are no
longer performed there. It seems that they have finally understood it.

I prefer "building=stadium" because a "bullring" is a type of stadium where
you can do other things besides performing bullfights. It does not differ so
significantly from other types of stadiums as to specify that it is a
different building. It is a type of stadium. However, if someone prefers to
use "building=bullring" I think it is possible. I prefer "building=stadium"
according to the common tag used for this type of building.

Thank you for commenting.

Regards,
Daniel
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging





--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 5. Aug 2019, at 09:22, dcapillae <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Not much difference. For example, in Spain, tennis matches are played in
> bullrings. They are suitable for other types of sports. Live concerts are
> also performed in bullrings.


while they are suitable for other things that can happen in the arena, the question is also how suitable a generic stadium would be for bullfighting.

It is a specialization.


Ciao Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dcapillae
Hi, Martin.

dieterdreist wrote
> the question is also how suitable a generic stadium would be for
> bullfighting.

Um, I don't think anyone in Spain would try to adapt a generic stadium as a
bullring. But not because it's difficult, but because bullfights are not as
popular as football, for example. No one would try to adapt a football
stadium If you have a bullring nearby.

It probably wouldn't be difficult to adapt if necessary. We'd need a pitch
("ruedo"). The "ruedos" are easy to build. There are many in the region of
Spain where I live. They are very simple: a solid wooden fence and sand.

In any case, we're talking about things I don't know very well. I don't know
much about adapting stadiums. I don't know much about bullfighting either.
It's easier to map a bullring in OSM than to build a stadium. That's sure!
:D

Thank you for commenting.

Regards,
Daniel



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 6. Aug 2019, at 00:20, dcapillae <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Um, I don't think anyone in Spain would try to adapt a generic stadium as a
> bullring.


what I meant was that there will probably be a dedicated area for the bulls and their preparation (behind the curtain) and entry into the arena, so the stadiums will likely be specialized stadiums for bullfighting, probably a specific building type (or stadium subtype, according to your point of view) to satisfy the specific requirements.

Cheers Martin
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

Warin
On 06/08/19 09:19, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 6. Aug 2019, at 00:20, dcapillae <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Um, I don't think anyone in Spain would try to adapt a generic stadium as a
>> bullring.
>
> what I meant was that there will probably be a dedicated area for the bulls and their preparation (behind the curtain) and entry into the arena, so the stadiums will likely be specialized stadiums for bullfighting, probably a specific building type (or stadium subtype, according to your point of view) to satisfy the specific requirements.

Most stadiums have specialised features for the sports and other events held there. If necessary stadium=bullfighting;soccer;rugby;cricket could be used.
The spectator areas would be very similar so the easily observed features would match from one stadium to another.


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

dcapillae
In reply to this post by dieterdreist
Hi, Martin.

Yes, I agree. A bullring is a stadium, a type (or subtype) of stadium:
"building=stadium".

Regards,
Daniel



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging of bullrings

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Warin


On Tuesday, 6 August 2019, Warin wrote:

> On 06/08/19 09:19, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >
> > sent from a phone
> >
> >> On 6. Aug 2019, at 00:20, dcapillae <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Um, I don't think anyone in Spain would try to adapt a generic stadium as a
> >> bullring.
> >
> > what I meant was that there will probably be a dedicated area for the bulls and their preparation (behind the curtain) and entry into the arena, so the stadiums will likely be specialized stadiums for bullfighting, probably a specific building type (or stadium subtype, according to your point of view) to satisfy the specific requirements.
>
> Most stadiums have specialised features for the sports and other events held there. If necessary stadium=bullfighting;soccer;rugby;cricket could be used.
> The spectator areas would be very similar so the easily observed features would match from one stadium to another.
>
There is a huge difference between could be and it would be sensible to do so.

Many stadiums are used for other events such as concerts.

Whilst it not hard to switch a stadium between soccer and rugby, it happens often, stadiums are sized for the sport.  A soccer or rugby stadium is too small for cricket and if you held a soccer or rugby match in a cricket stadium the fans would be so far away it would destroy the atmosphere.

The old Wembley Stadium had a running track around the pitch, the new one was built without that space so as not to destroy the atmosphere.

Phil (trigpoint)

--
Sent from my Sailfish device
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging