Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
15 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

s8evq
After a discussion with another user, I saw some people put a lot of effort in adding and maintaining the course of professional bicycle races. For example the world famous Paris-Roubaix (traject of the 2014 edition: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4853475) I also found for example local 10K and half marathon running events being added.

Is this something that should be in OSM?

For me, it's not verifiable, it's a historic event / temporary event. (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice)

If it's not part of OSM, should we go out and delete these things?
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Richard Fairhurst
They don’t belong in OSM for the reasons you state, and would be better
hosted independently on umap or similar.

But in any case, they absolutely should not be tagged route=bicycle, as
routers and renderers use this as a signifier that “this road/path is
particularly suitable for cycling”. Professional bike races take place on
closed roads, sometimes even trunk roads/motorways, and certainly not just
those identified as bike-friendly. If these routes are to stay in OSM (which
they shouldn’t) then they should be route=bicycle_race or similar.

cheers
Richard



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

voschix


On Thu, 7 Mar 2019, 08:57 Richard Fairhurst, <[hidden email]> wrote:
They don’t belong in OSM for the reasons you state, 

I strongly second this statement.



_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Warin
In reply to this post by Richard Fairhurst
On 07/03/19 18:55, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> They don’t belong in OSM for the reasons you state, and would be better
> hosted independently on umap or similar.

They could go into OHM on a year by year basis?

Each year can have a different route...


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Peter Elderson
In reply to this post by voschix
If a route is indicated/waymarked on the road not just for an event but as a permanent route, adding it to OSM is ok. If it's not waymarked on the road, or just for the event, it's non-OSM material. There are numerous sites and apps for planning/publishing/recording/archiving such tracks on all kinds of maps, including OSM.

Fr gr Peter Elderson


Op do 7 mrt. 2019 om 09:41 schreef Volker Schmidt <[hidden email]>:


On Thu, 7 Mar 2019, 08:57 Richard Fairhurst, <[hidden email]> wrote:
They don’t belong in OSM for the reasons you state, 

I strongly second this statement.


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by s8evq
Is this course signed in terrain? Is it the same every year?

Given "traject of the 2014 edition" I suspect to second is no, but such data
can avoid deletion if it is marked on a ground.

Otherwise it should be deleted quickly, mostly because it may encourage
people to waste time adding more.


Mar 7, 2019, 8:19 AM by [hidden email]:
After a discussion with another user, I saw some people put a lot of effort in adding and maintaining the course of professional bicycle races. For example the world famous Paris-Roubaix (traject of the 2014 edition: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4853475) I also found for example local 10K and half marathon running events being added.

Is this something that should be in OSM?

For me, it's not verifiable, it's a historic event / temporary event. (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice)

If it's not part of OSM, should we go out and delete these things?
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

voschix
In reply to this post by Warin
On 07/03/19 18:55, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
They could go into OHM on a year by year basis?
There is an old proposal:
but it has not been approved.

I think this type of event-related  track should go into any of the many bicycle route sites that are out there, unless it's signposted on the ground.

Volker

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Graeme Fitzpatrick
I've seen the same tracks marked for once-a-year car races on otherwise normal streets - they should also be deleted?

Thanks

Graeme

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Warin
On 08/03/19 11:47, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> I've seen the same tracks marked for once-a-year car races on
> otherwise normal streets - they should also be deleted?

I would first transfer them to something else. If they have historic
significance then OHM.

The bicycle routes are used by various people so need some care with those.

Car race routes... who renders/uses/displays them? In other words .. are
they causing problems to end users?
The only issue for 'us' is data bloat and confusion. If they are not
confusing (they make sense) .. then?

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Graeme Fitzpatrick

Only operates as a race track for 4 days a year - 1 practice, 1 qualifying & 2 race days. The rest of the year it's normal public roads.

(& I even get a mention for editing part of it, but certainly don't remember doing so?)

Thanks

Graeme


On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 14:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 08/03/19 11:47, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> I've seen the same tracks marked for once-a-year car races on
> otherwise normal streets - they should also be deleted?

I would first transfer them to something else. If they have historic
significance then OHM.

The bicycle routes are used by various people so need some care with those.

Car race routes... who renders/uses/displays them? In other words .. are
they causing problems to end users?
The only issue for 'us' is data bloat and confusion. If they are not
confusing (they make sense) .. then?

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Warin
On 08/03/19 15:31, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

Only operates as a race track for 4 days a year - 1 practice, 1 qualifying & 2 race days. The rest of the year it's normal public roads.

I'd drop highway=raceway ... or make it conditional highway:conditional=raceway @ During GC600 Race only

change route=road to route=road_raceway ...


(& I even get a mention for editing part of it, but certainly don't remember doing so?)
:) Yep.. trouble remembering what I have edited and why is not infrequent.

Thanks

Graeme


On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 14:12, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 08/03/19 11:47, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> I've seen the same tracks marked for once-a-year car races on
> otherwise normal streets - they should also be deleted?

I would first transfer them to something else. If they have historic
significance then OHM.

The bicycle routes are used by various people so need some care with those.

Car race routes... who renders/uses/displays them? In other words .. are
they causing problems to end users?
The only issue for 'us' is data bloat and confusion. If they are not
confusing (they make sense) .. then?

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging



_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
Mar 8, 2019, 1:47 AM by [hidden email]:
I've seen the same tracks marked for once-a-year car races on otherwise normal streets - they should also be deleted?
Is route marked on the ground or at least exactly the same every year?

If yes, then I am not sure. Currently unmarked on the ground and changes
every year - then it is for a deletion.

If someone wants this data - feel free to add it, but not to OSM.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Andy Townsend
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On 08/03/2019 04:31, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Here's the one I was talking about
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9325885#map=16/-27.9868/153.4270
>
> Only operates as a race track for 4 days a year - 1 practice, 1
> qualifying & 2 race days. The rest of the year it's normal public roads.
>
>
Singapore offers a better example, I suspect.  There are ways that are
genuinely highway=raceway:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/297234502

but the circuit itself doesn't have that tag on it, and shouldn't have:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/421263

Best Regards,

Andy





_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Mateusz Konieczny-3


On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 17:43, Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is route marked on the ground

Stays partially marked - the "boxes" for the starting grid & the start / finish line stay year round, but are redone for the race itself. The rest of the race lane markings get painted over after the race then repainted next year. The burnt rubber on the grid & leading into all the corners stays though!

or at least exactly the same every year?

Has been the same basic layout for ~20 years now, but they've tweaked it a few times to go down that street rather than this one, or make the curve wider or tighter

Thanks

Graeme

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tagging professional cycling competitions as route=bicycle?

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend

Thanks Andy

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 20:22, Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are ways that are genuinely highway=raceway:

Just looking at it, would I be right in saying that that stretch, & the straight / pits over to the East are pure racetrack & nothing else, but the rest of the circuit is public roads? 

but the circuit itself doesn't have that tag on it, and shouldn't have:

So if we took the highway=raceway tag off, but just left the relation in place, would that be OK?


Thanks

Graeme

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging