[Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki

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[Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki

Mauro Costantini
Hi guys, (sorry for the crossposting)
Yesterday I noticed a little misalignement between the wiki and the
tags currently used by mappers.
The wiki [0] suggests to use the tag "railway=station" on nodes only
but taginfo [1] shows that there are 8120 way with that tag (and 515
relations too).
We are used to say "no automated edits" and "always discuss with other
mappers" so i just asked the dumb question «may I change them in Italy
accordingly to the wiki?» in my local mailing list [2].
Seeing that the topic is not limited in my country, another mapper
asked the same question (yeah, not really the same, but somehow
related) on the tagging mailing list [3].
Two hours later someone edited [4] the wiki page removing the
difference between a station and a halt, writing that the difference
is only in German speaking countries (of course it's false: English
has station/halt, Italian has stazione/fermata, French has gare/halte,
...) That sounds like vandalism for me. (He decided we shouldn't map
reality?)
We got some reactions in the Italian ML: some mappers agree with
putting the tag on a node, someone like it more on ways (even
buildings), other guys like relations.
Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
to be unconnected with the railway track?"

Now you know my story.
Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
"railway=station" with a node only?
I mean I need to have a two-line sentence to add to the wiki
(tag:railway=station) for those (the majority of the guys out there)
who didn't read the bible [5].

Any advice (answers, discussions, questions, doubts, ... even insults)
are welcome, let me know your point of view.
Thank you in advance.
Mauro.

[0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dstation
[1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/railway=station?filter=ways#map
[2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2016-May/052739.html
[3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-May/029241.html
[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Arailway%3Dstation&type=revision&diff=1301581&oldid=1284835
[5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging

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Re: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki

Nzara
Hello Mauro,

concerning your questions

> Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
> to be unconnected with the railway track?"
>

> Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
> "railway=station" with a node only?

I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at
the station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position, I
usualy use for placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a
track. The track carries nodes like public_transport=stop_position.
Putting 'station' on a building or even a larger area leaves it to the
renderer or any other data consumer to guess the center of the station
from passenges view.

Cheers
Nzara





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Re: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki

nounours77
100% agree with Nzara.
Important to have ONE point for station, and the mapper can better decide where this is then an algorithm.

nounours

> Am 19.05.2016 um 07:28 schrieb Nzara <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hello Mauro,
>
> concerning your questions
>
>> Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
>> to be unconnected with the railway track?"
>>
>
>> Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
>> "railway=station" with a node only?
>
> I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at the station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position, I usualy use for placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a track. The track carries nodes like public_transport=stop_position. Putting 'station' on a building or even a larger area leaves it to the renderer or any other data consumer to guess the center of the station from passenges view.
>
> Cheers
> Nzara
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-transit mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit


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Re: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki

Arun Ganesh
The one point approach works for small stations with a single entrance, but is a little misleading for large station complexes with multiple entry points. We have quite a few of these in India, where both sides are equally important like the New Delhi station: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/28.64233/77.22188

In such cases its fair to add the marker in the centroid of the area, and not on any particular side. The station building would then help the user decide which entry is most convenient.


On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Nounours77 <[hidden email]> wrote:
100% agree with Nzara.
Important to have ONE point for station, and the mapper can better decide where this is then an algorithm.

nounours

> Am 19.05.2016 um 07:28 schrieb Nzara <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hello Mauro,
>
> concerning your questions
>
>> Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
>> to be unconnected with the railway track?"
>>
>
>> Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
>> "railway=station" with a node only?
>
> I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at the station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position, I usualy use for placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a track. The track carries nodes like public_transport=stop_position. Putting 'station' on a building or even a larger area leaves it to the renderer or any other data consumer to guess the center of the station from passenges view.
>
> Cheers
> Nzara
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-transit mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit


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--
Arun Ganesh
@planemad

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Re: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki

Richard Fairhurst
In reply to this post by Mauro Costantini
Mauro Constantini wrote:
> Two hours later someone edited [4] the wiki page removing the
> difference between a station and a halt, writing that the difference
> is only in German speaking countries (of course it's false: English
> has station/halt, Italian has stazione/fermata, French has
> gare/halte, ...) That sounds like vandalism for me. (He decided we
> shouldn't map reality?)

Your message is gratuitously offensive and based on a misreading.

I did _not_ remove the difference between a station and a halt.

I stated that the particular rationale used to differentiate between a
station and a halt in German-speaking countries, in which the presence
of points is the determining factor, was not necessarily the rationale
used in other countries.

I would appreciate an apology for the accusation of vandalism and for
the sarcastic comment about not mapping reality.

Richard

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Re: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki

Nzara
In reply to this post by Arun Ganesh
In Europe we also have a number of quite complex stations with many
entries and sometimes multiple levels. However a local mapper typically
knows what is considered the "heart of the station". This might be a
meeting area (official / unofficial), a waiting area, an information
desk, a ticket box or something else. In most cases this differs from
the centroid but is better to represent the station.

BTW: My biggest challenge to place a the station node is on small
commuter stations: 2 tracks, 2 platforms, one entry on each side of the
platform ( 4 in total), no station building, looks boring from
everywhere, definitely not heart in this station;-).

Am 19.05.2016 um 08:40 schrieb Arun Ganesh:

> The one point approach works for small stations with a single entrance,
> but is a little misleading for large station complexes with multiple
> entry points. We have quite a few of these in India, where both sides
> are equally important like the New Delhi station:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/28.64233/77.22188
>
> In such cases its fair to add the marker in the centroid of the area,
> and not on any particular side. The station building would then help the
> user decide which entry is most convenient.
>
>



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