Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

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Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Nuno Caldeira
To acknowledge,I have asked this to the board.

Dear board and board members, 

Following my comment on this post https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/DrishT/diary/368711

I hereby request OSMF board, responsabile for the OSMF, as the Licensor under ODbL 9.4 c) to notify Facebook and remove their rights under ODbL, if the violation is not fixed after 30 days of notice. as written on ODbL. https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/index.html

9.0 Termination of Your rights under this License


   c. Permanently if reasonably notified by the Licensor of the
violation, this is the first time You have received notice of
violation of this License from the Licensor, and You cure the
violation prior to 30 days after your receipt of the notice.


Kind regards,

Nuno Caldeira

--
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Warning This e-mail message may contain confidential or legally privileged information and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information herein is prohibited. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, or contain viruses. Anyone who communicates with us by e-mail is deemed to have accepted these risks. Company Name is not responsible for errors or omissions in this message and denies any responsibility for any damage arising from the use of e-mail. Any opinion and other statement contained in this message and any attachment are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.


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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Andy Mabbett
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 12:08, Nuno Caldeira <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To acknowledge,I have asked this to the board.
>
> Dear board and board members,
>
> Following my comment on this post https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/DrishT/diary/368711
>
> I hereby request OSMF board, responsabile for the OSMF, as the Licensor under
> ODbL 9.4 c) to notify Facebook and remove their rights under ODbL, if the
> violation is not fixed after 30 days of notice. as written on ODbL.

You posted a comment - on a Sunday - less than two hours before
requesting this? Do you not think it would be prudent - not to mention
courteous - to first wait for a response there?

> Company Name is not responsible for errors or omissions in this message

Well, quite.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Blake Girardot
"Warning This e-mail message may contain confidential or legally
privileged information and is intended only for the use of the
intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination,
distribution, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the
information herein is prohibited. E-mails are not secure and cannot be
guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, or
contain viruses. Anyone who communicates with us by e-mail is deemed
to have accepted these risks. Company Name is not responsible for
errors or omissions in this message and denies any responsibility for
any damage arising from the use of e-mail. Any opinion and other
statement contained in this message and any attachment are solely
those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the
company."

I have been scolded and ignored in the past for forwarding an email
with this sort of signature to an OSM email.

I was promptly informed this was a public email list and emails with
that type of sig were not welcome.

Regards,
Blake

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 9:22 AM Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 12:08, Nuno Caldeira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > To acknowledge,I have asked this to the board.
> >
> > Dear board and board members,
> >
> > Following my comment on this post https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/DrishT/diary/368711
> >
> > I hereby request OSMF board, responsabile for the OSMF, as the Licensor under
> > ODbL 9.4 c) to notify Facebook and remove their rights under ODbL, if the
> > violation is not fixed after 30 days of notice. as written on ODbL.
>
> You posted a comment - on a Sunday - less than two hours before
> requesting this? Do you not think it would be prudent - not to mention
> courteous - to first wait for a response there?
>
> > Company Name is not responsible for errors or omissions in this message
>
> Well, quite.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



--
----------------------------------------------------
Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Nuno Caldeira

9 Jun 2019, 13:08 by [hidden email]:

I support efforts to stop large scale violation of OSM license by Facebook.

Note
"You must include a notice associated with
the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses,
views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced
Work aware that Content was obtained from the Database, Derivative
Database, or the Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it
is available under this License."

that is clearly violated, nearly noone using FB is made aware
that maps are powered by OSM data.

But this attempt is a bit substandard
I hereby request OSMF board, responsabile for the OSMF, as the Licensor under ODbL 9.4 c) to notify Facebook and remove their rights under ODbL, if the violation is not fixed after 30 days of notice. as written on ODbL. https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/index.html
Unfortunately, as far as I know, it is OSMF that must produce this notice (I may be mistaken here).

Also, can you consider not including such footer notices in emails posted on a public mailing list?

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Nuno Caldeira

I apologize for the signature (my mistake) and asked for the mailing list admin to remove it.

This is not a matter on how the attribution must be made, like we discussed before in https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2019-February/082136.html, it's them not attributing at all.

OSMF is the licensor, as written of https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines

OSMF's role as Licensor and publisher of the database

I have asked Facebook (as a contributor) several times to comply with our guidelines and they stopped replying and did not add the attribution over the last six months.

As we have moved from CC to ODbL i assume OSMF as the licensor has the right and in my opinion must notify the violation of 4.3 under 9.4 c) as they just keep ignoring adding the attribution as requested on  https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

We require that you use the credit “© OpenStreetMap contributors”.
They do not fit under substantial concept: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline

The OpenStreetMap community regards the following as being not Substantial within the meaning of our license provided that the extraction is one-off and not repeated over time for the same or a similar project.

  • Less than 100 Features.
  • More that 100 Features only if the extraction is non-systematic and clearly based on your own qualitative criteria for example an extract of all the the locations of restaurants you have visited for a personal map to share with friends or use the locations of a selection of historic buildings as an adjunct in a book you are writing, we would regard that as non Substantial. The systematic extraction of all eating places within an area or at all castles within an area would be considered to be systematic.
  • The features relating to an area of up to 1,000 inhabitants which can be a small densely populated area such as a European village or can be a large sparsely-populated area for example a section of the Australian bush with few Features.

Note also that we regard repeated small extractions as one big extraction!



Às 15:39 de 09/06/2019, Mateusz Konieczny escreveu:

9 Jun 2019, 13:08 by [hidden email]:

I support efforts to stop large scale violation of OSM license by Facebook.

Note
"You must include a notice associated with
the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses,
views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced
Work aware that Content was obtained from the Database, Derivative
Database, or the Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it
is available under this License."

that is clearly violated, nearly noone using FB is made aware
that maps are powered by OSM data.

But this attempt is a bit substandard
I hereby request OSMF board, responsabile for the OSMF, as the Licensor under ODbL 9.4 c) to notify Facebook and remove their rights under ODbL, if the violation is not fixed after 30 days of notice. as written on ODbL. https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/index.html
Unfortunately, as far as I know, it is OSMF that must produce this notice (I may be mistaken here).

Also, can you consider not including such footer notices in emails posted on a public mailing list?

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Christoph Hormann-2
In reply to this post by Nuno Caldeira
On Sunday 09 June 2019, Nuno Caldeira wrote:
>
> I hereby request OSMF board, responsabile for the OSMF, as the
> Licensor under ODbL 9.4 c) to notify Facebook and remove their rights
> under ODbL, if the violation is not fixed after 30 days of notice. as
> written on ODbL.
> https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/index.html

I applaud you placing the ball in the OSMF board's court on this matter
but i would not expect substantial actions from there.

Although Facebook is an extreme example it is by far not the only case
of big organizational OSM data users and contributors looking down on
the OSM community and its values and doing as they please disregarding
objections to what they do if they consider them unworthy or
insignificant.

And with at the moment at least four out of seven OSMF board members
having ties to big organizational OSM data users/contributors ... well,
as we say in German:  Eine Krähe hackt der anderen kein Auge aus.

Of course the OSM community does not depend on the OSMF to clearly
communicate to Facebook that their insulting behaviour is not
acceptable and that it will cost them a lot more economically in the
long term to continue acting this way than anything they might hope to
gain from it.

But the question is of course if the OSM community as a whole is willing
to stand up to Facebook and others to defend our values.  If you
imagine what percentage of OSM community members are Facebook customers
you might already have your answer.  Or to put it slightly differently:  
Why should Facebook even assume that OSM community members are in
anyway displeased with Facebook if they (to a large part) continue
using Facebook?

I mean using Facebook as a communication platform for the OSM community
is even advertised on osm.org (via iD editor and osm-community-index):

https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index/search?q=facebook&unscoped_q=facebook

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Nuno Caldeira

Of course the OSM community does not depend on the OSMF to clearly 
communicate to Facebook that their insulting behaviour is not 
acceptable and that it will cost them a lot more economically in the 
long term to continue acting this way than anything they might hope to 
gain from it.

We are not talking about a simple company, we are actually talking about a company that is a Gold Corporate Member of OSMF and have sponsored a few events [1]. So if they are not aware of the license something is clearly wrong in "showing their long term support to our organisation" and "In doing so they are helping to keep OpenStreetMap's servers running, supporting the work of our volunteer working groups, and above all showing their support for OpenStreetMap" [2].

source:

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Facebook_(company)

[2] https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Corporate_Members

And with at the moment at least four out of seven OSMF board members 
having ties to big organizational OSM data users/contributors ... well, 
as we say in German:  Eine Krähe hackt der anderen kein Auge aus.

Are those ties public? Are they connected to any of the corporate members of OSMF?

And quoting https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Historic/We_Are_Changing_The_License

But what happens if the Foundation is taken over by people with commercial interests?

  • You still own the rights to any data you contribute, not the Foundation. In the new Contributor Terms, you license the Foundation to publish the data for others to use and ONLY under a free and open license.
  • The Foundation is not allowed to take your contribution and release it under a commercial license.
  • If the Foundation fails to publish under only a free and open license, it has broken its contract with you. A copy of the existing data can be made and released by a different body.
  • If a change is made to another free and open license, it is active contributors who decide yes or no, not the Foundation.

Às 19:00 de 09/06/2019, Christoph Hormann escreveu:
On Sunday 09 June 2019, Nuno Caldeira wrote:
I hereby request OSMF board, responsabile for the OSMF, as the
Licensor under ODbL 9.4 c) to notify Facebook and remove their rights
under ODbL, if the violation is not fixed after 30 days of notice. as
written on ODbL.
https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/index.html
I applaud you placing the ball in the OSMF board's court on this matter 
but i would not expect substantial actions from there.

Although Facebook is an extreme example it is by far not the only case 
of big organizational OSM data users and contributors looking down on 
the OSM community and its values and doing as they please disregarding 
objections to what they do if they consider them unworthy or 
insignificant.

And with at the moment at least four out of seven OSMF board members 
having ties to big organizational OSM data users/contributors ... well, 
as we say in German:  Eine Krähe hackt der anderen kein Auge aus.

Of course the OSM community does not depend on the OSMF to clearly 
communicate to Facebook that their insulting behaviour is not 
acceptable and that it will cost them a lot more economically in the 
long term to continue acting this way than anything they might hope to 
gain from it.

But the question is of course if the OSM community as a whole is willing 
to stand up to Facebook and others to defend our values.  If you 
imagine what percentage of OSM community members are Facebook customers 
you might already have your answer.  Or to put it slightly differently:  
Why should Facebook even assume that OSM community members are in 
anyway displeased with Facebook if they (to a large part) continue 
using Facebook?

I mean using Facebook as a communication platform for the OSM community 
is even advertised on osm.org (via iD editor and osm-community-index):

https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index/search?q=facebook&unscoped_q=facebook


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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Christoph Hormann-2
On Sunday 09 June 2019, Nuno Caldeira wrote:
> > And with at the moment at least four out of seven OSMF board
> > members having ties to big organizational OSM data
> > users/contributors ... well, as we say in German:  Eine Krähe hackt
> > der anderen kein Auge aus.
>
> Are those ties public? Are they connected to any of the corporate
> members of OSMF?

To some extent this is documented on

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Member_Bios

but this is not always up-to-date and does not necessarily contain all
the details.

Note corporate OSMF membership does not currently come with any
behaviour requirements so it is not really that relevant here.  We had
some time ago a bit of discussion though on osmf-talk about if there
should be rules related to corporate OSMF membership:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-January/005862.html

but this is more about behavioural rules.  The requirement to comply
with the license (which is something every OSMF data users has to do)
is not something that makes sense to specifically ask from corporate
members.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Frederik Ramm
In reply to this post by Christoph Hormann-2
Hi,

On 09.06.19 20:00, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> I applaud you placing the ball in the OSMF board's court on this matter
> but i would not expect substantial actions from there.

The board has received the message and I'm sure it will be discussed
internally in due course.

It might be worth noting that LWG are working on improved attribution
guidelines
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-01-10#Update_attribution_guidance)
and perhaps it makes sense to delay any drastic action until these are
ready. I don't expect any big changes (basic requirements of the license
are not up for discussion) but perhaps some useful clarifications.

> And with at the moment at least four out of seven OSMF board members
> having ties to big organizational OSM data users/contributors ... well,
> as we say in German:  Eine Krähe hackt der anderen kein Auge aus.

Be that as it may, but there's also another thing to keep in mind: The
OSMF board doesn't have an army of eager workers at their fingertips
whom we can task with something. As you know, there's always discussion
about enlarging the organisation, hiring more staff, hiring an executive
director (which OSM US have done with much fanfare) etc., and as you
also know, I am usually against such "OSMF inflation". I don't know what
your position is in these matters; but actually cataloguing license
violations, sending the appropriate legal nastygrams to the appropriate
legal entities in the appropriate countries and all that, is certainly
something that can occupy one employee full time - an employee where the
OSMF would likely depend on corporate members like Facebook to pay their
salary. So we have to be careful with what we demand from the OSMF.

As you rightly say, while the OSMF board's cooperation might be required
for a few legal aspects, there are many potential avenues of "direct
action" that people could take to, but apparently the issue is not
*that* big for most.

Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Mateusz Konieczny-3
9 Jun 2019, 22:31 by [hidden email]:
As you rightly say, while the OSMF board's cooperation might be required
for a few legal aspects, there are many potential avenues of "direct
action" that people could take to, but apparently the issue is not
*that* big for most
I would be happy to spend some real effort here but my investigation concluded
that OSMF would need to act and I found no useful things that I can do.

Can you recommend something that I can do to increase chance that
Facebook will cease to violating OSM license?

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Clifford Snow
Facebook does attribute using the "I" symbol as does Mapbox. Is that the issue?


On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:12 PM Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
9 Jun 2019, 22:31 by [hidden email]:
As you rightly say, while the OSMF board's cooperation might be required
for a few legal aspects, there are many potential avenues of "direct
action" that people could take to, but apparently the issue is not
*that* big for most
I would be happy to spend some real effort here but my investigation concluded
that OSMF would need to act and I found no useful things that I can do.

Can you recommend something that I can do to increase chance that
Facebook will cease to violating OSM license?
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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Nuno Caldeira

They do not.

Examples: https://twitter.com/iamnunocaldeira/status/1131190612529688577

https://www.facebook.com/recommendations those map previews contains OSM data and there's no attribution.

It gets worst if you use their apps (iOS, Android or Windows app)

And as i mentioned this is not about how they attribute, that's a whole different thing. It's them not complying with the license. Point me a facebook page where they have ODbL database notice as requested on 4.2 c).


Às 22:36 de 09/06/2019, Clifford Snow escreveu:
Facebook does attribute using the "I" symbol as does Mapbox. Is that the issue?


On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:12 PM Mateusz Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
9 Jun 2019, 22:31 by [hidden email]:
As you rightly say, while the OSMF board's cooperation might be required
for a few legal aspects, there are many potential avenues of "direct
action" that people could take to, but apparently the issue is not
*that* big for most
I would be happy to spend some real effort here but my investigation concluded
that OSMF would need to act and I found no useful things that I can do.

Can you recommend something that I can do to increase chance that
Facebook will cease to violating OSM license?
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Nuno Caldeira
In reply to this post by Frederik Ramm

Frederik, i'm well aware of LWG making a better guide regarding the attribution. This does not have to do with the way they attribute. It's about the license.

And i'm not asking the board to sue Facebook, what i'm asking is to notify them they are in breach of ODbL, as their are not fulfilling the terms and conditions of the license. This means if in 30 days after they receive the notice, they are in permanently breach of the license. Only OSMF as the licensor can do that.


Às 21:31 de 09/06/2019, Frederik Ramm escreveu:
Hi,

On 09.06.19 20:00, Christoph Hormann wrote:
I applaud you placing the ball in the OSMF board's court on this matter 
but i would not expect substantial actions from there.
The board has received the message and I'm sure it will be discussed
internally in due course.

It might be worth noting that LWG are working on improved attribution
guidelines
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-01-10#Update_attribution_guidance)
and perhaps it makes sense to delay any drastic action until these are
ready. I don't expect any big changes (basic requirements of the license
are not up for discussion) but perhaps some useful clarifications.

And with at the moment at least four out of seven OSMF board members 
having ties to big organizational OSM data users/contributors ... well, 
as we say in German:  Eine Krähe hackt der anderen kein Auge aus.
Be that as it may, but there's also another thing to keep in mind: The
OSMF board doesn't have an army of eager workers at their fingertips
whom we can task with something. As you know, there's always discussion
about enlarging the organisation, hiring more staff, hiring an executive
director (which OSM US have done with much fanfare) etc., and as you
also know, I am usually against such "OSMF inflation". I don't know what
your position is in these matters; but actually cataloguing license
violations, sending the appropriate legal nastygrams to the appropriate
legal entities in the appropriate countries and all that, is certainly
something that can occupy one employee full time - an employee where the
OSMF would likely depend on corporate members like Facebook to pay their
salary. So we have to be careful with what we demand from the OSMF.

As you rightly say, while the OSMF board's cooperation might be required
for a few legal aspects, there are many potential avenues of "direct
action" that people could take to, but apparently the issue is not
*that* big for most.

Bye
Frederik


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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Christoph Hormann-2
In reply to this post by Frederik Ramm

To be clear:  I would very much welcome it if the board states that they
welcome activities from the OSM community pushing organizational OSM
data users for following the license and supporting people organizing
pressure on them to do so.  But from past experience with board members
articulating themselves on this kind of matter i would not expect much
here though (but would be happy to be positively surprised).

One particular case i have pointed out on several occasions is the
matter of second rate attributions.  A clear statement that if anyone
is credited in any way for a map using OSM data OSM contributors need
to be attributed with at least the same prominence and visibility would
be immensely helpful.  Clear statements are important because nothing
is more annoying than data users attempting to weasel around
attribution requirements.  In my experience when contacting data users
about insufficient attribution at least 2/3 of the communication is
dealing with petty attempts at bargaining for less attribution.

> I don't know what your position is in these matters; but
> actually cataloguing license violations, sending the appropriate
> legal nastygrams to the appropriate legal entities in the appropriate
> countries and all that, is certainly something that can occupy one
> employee full time - an employee where the OSMF would likely depend
> on corporate members like Facebook to pay their salary. So we have to
> be careful with what we demand from the OSMF.

That publishing something on the internet inevitably results in people
ripping you off (including in particular big corporations and
organizations) and that you can spend more time (and could possibly
even make more money) pursuing such than by actually producing things
is essentially a fact of life.

The situation for OSM is a bit different though since allowing others on
a large scale to ignore the ODbL essentially nullifies the social
contract of OSM and leads to the project loosing contributors (all
those who consider their contributions to be contingent to attribution
and share-alike being given back to them by data users).

I think making sure that this does not happen should be done through
volunteer work but the OSMF could do quite a lot without investing a
lot of work to support this simply by making clear that the OSMF stands
firmly behind any OSM community members who act on such cases (in a
friendly and supportive way to first time offenders but with firm
pressure on unregenerate repeat offenders).

There are tons of very simple things the OSMF could do to to indicate
their support.  Removing data users with no proper attribution from

https://welcome.openstreetmap.org/about-osm-community/consumers/

for example.

No one should underestimage the amount of pressure the OSM community
could put on large data users who don't abide by the license.  I
already indicated this is pure theory but how long do you think it
would take Facebook to become a model ODbL data user if all active OSM
contributors would

* cease using Facebook
* stop any cooperation with Facebook within the project
* revert any edits made by mappers working for Facebook or for projects
being financed by Facebook?

IMO ultimately key is that everyone internalizes that being lenient on
sustained license violations is not a way to support adoption of OSM as
a data source but primarily a way to alienate huge parts of the
contributor base.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Jean-Marc Liotier
On 6/10/19 12:10 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> No one should underestimage the amount of pressure the OSM community
> could put [..] if all active OSM
> contributors would
>
> * cease using Facebook [..]

A drop in the ocean.

This negotiation belongs to the OSMF.


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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Christoph Hormann-2
On Monday 10 June 2019, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
> >
> > * cease using Facebook [..]
>
> A drop in the ocean.

As already said it would be a bad mistake to underestimate the influence
the OSM community has in principle.  It is certainly much larger than
that of the OSMF.  It might be convenient to just say "we can't do
anything anyway so why bother" and Facebook certainly tries to
cultivate a nimbus of being all-powerful and untouchable but that is
definitely not the case.

> This negotiation belongs to the OSMF.

If there is one thing the OSMF definitely must not do it is to negotiate
with corporations like Facebook about to what extent they must follow
the license.

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Clifford Snow
In reply to this post by Nuno Caldeira
Nuno - On a Facebook Android app I checked [1] they also use the "i" symbol with a link to our attribution. I agree that they could do better, when the map is opened up there is space for proper attribution but they only give a very dim "i" symbol, but it is attributed. On the website, the map is actually very small.

I am located in the US and this isn't my Facebook App since I no longer have a FB account. 





On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:45 PM Nuno Caldeira <[hidden email]> wrote:

They do not.

Examples: https://twitter.com/iamnunocaldeira/status/1131190612529688577

https://www.facebook.com/recommendations those map previews contains OSM data and there's no attribution.

It gets worst if you use their apps (iOS, Android or Windows app)

And as i mentioned this is not about how they attribute, that's a whole different thing. It's them not complying with the license. Point me a facebook page where they have ODbL database notice as requested on 4.2 c).


--
@osm_washington
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Jean-Marc Liotier
10 Jun 2019, 01:10 by [hidden email]:
This negotiation belongs to the OSMF.
Negotiation? Rather DMCA takedown notice[1]. There is
no reason at all for negotiation.

[1] Or something more powerful if available.

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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Clifford Snow
It is still violation of ODBL to include barely visible "attribution" that will be missed by
a typical person.

"notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make
any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise
exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the Database,
Derivative Database, or the Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it
is available under this License."


10 Jun 2019, 02:23 by [hidden email]:
Nuno - On a Facebook Android app I checked [1] they also use the "i" symbol with a link to our attribution. I agree that they could do better, when the map is opened up there is space for proper attribution but they only give a very dim "i" symbol, but it is attributed. On the website, the map is actually very small.

I am located in the US and this isn't my Facebook App since I no longer have a FB account. 





On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:45 PM Nuno Caldeira <[hidden email]> wrote:

They do not.

Examples: https://twitter.com/iamnunocaldeira/status/1131190612529688577

https://www.facebook.com/recommendations those map previews contains OSM data and there's no attribution.

It gets worst if you use their apps (iOS, Android or Windows app)

And as i mentioned this is not about how they attribute, that's a whole different thing. It's them not complying with the license. Point me a facebook page where they have ODbL database notice as requested on 4.2 c).


--
@osm_washington
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch


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Re: Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Christoph Hormann-2
10 Jun 2019, 01:38 by [hidden email]:
As already said it would be a bad mistake to underestimate the influence
the OSM community has in principle. It is certainly much larger than
that of the OSMF. It might be convenient to just say "we can't do
anything anyway so why bother" and Facebook certainly tries to
cultivate a nimbus of being all-powerful and untouchable but that is
definitely not the case.
Can you propose anything specific that for  example I can do,?

I though about DMCA takedown notices for event pages that display
maps where I substantially contributed, but I am not sure whatever
I am allowed to do this.


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