Thank you from MSF!

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
18 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Thank you from MSF!

Ralf Bernhardt
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

FransS1945
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway
tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own
experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a
highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the
highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to
decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different
ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as
secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to
tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag
is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on
these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as
they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to
each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:

> Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.
>
> There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
> boundarys and place names.
>
> I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
> guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
> highway=path in OSM.
>
> But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
> there a reason for that or will you change them later?
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

--
Frans Schutz


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

john whelan-2
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Ralf Bernhardt

My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Phil Wyatt

Hi Folks,

 

I am not a mapper for HOT or MSF but undertake mapping in emergencies for other organisations. In this case I would suspect that MSF obtains data layers from many sources, OSM, local agencies, on ground knowledge/organisations. The map examples will be made up of all these layers, not just OSM.

 

Designations such as Moto, Car and foot may have been applied to OSM data downloads and may well just apply in the current emergency situation and not reflect the general use of such areas. Likewise, boundaries names etc may just be local designations and not ‘approved names’.

 

It would be great to have locals with an interest in OSM and I am sure everyone encourages updates to the OSM basemap where possible, however it does take a concerted effort to onboard good mappers and keep them interested in improving the maps, plus easy access to the technology may be limited. Ironically, post disasters is often when people start to show an interest as they have first- hand knowledge on how the maps are used. During the emergency, the staff will have their hands full recording other data and may not have the time or resources to make updates in OSM.

 

Cheers – Phil

http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?tastrax

 

From: Ralf Bernhardt [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, 7 April 2019 1:33 AM
To: John Whelan; Frans Schutz
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [HOT] Thank you from MSF!

 

My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:

There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:

Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:

Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

 

 

--

Sent from Postbox


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
In reply to this post by Ralf Bernhardt
Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week, and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting, and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up to speed.

"Road Classification" is an important topic for roads agencies, it helps define the funding and prioritisation for development and maintenance of the road network in a country.

With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example, the highway tag:


uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District", "Local" etc.

What this means is that the road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping.

As part of my work, I am trying to encourage Roads Agencies to review OSM mapping, to compare with their official definitions, and to update OSM based on their own records. However, the differences in the classification terminologies are a barrier to this. Every country potentially has a different classification system. We have been discussing internally that an extra "layer" on top of OSM might be a way forward, but that is an overhead and requires extra cost and administration.

Would be grateful for anyone's views on this.

Regards, Kevin McPherson




On Saturday, April 6, 2019, 3:34:19 PM GMT+1, Ralf Bernhardt <[hidden email]> wrote:


My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Walker Kosmidou-Bradley
Dear Kevin,

In many countries, the country designations are mapped to the OSM conventions and then the Main, District, or Local to which you allude could be a part of the ref/number.  Afghanistan has a pretty simple process to go from from OSM to national data (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Afghanistan) please note that this highway tag list was adapted from the fine work done for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa.

In Afghanistan, the government knows that OSM secondary roads are “district roads” and the ref number reflects that, e.g. D320781 (Secondary) and NH1010 (Trunk), Afghanistan doesn’t use the motorway designation from OSM.  If they need to change the tag after downloading, a simple if/than script can make the adjustment in a couple minutes.

I’m happy to learn more how other folks have tackled this issue.

Best,

Walker

On Apr 7, 2019, at 21:30, Kevin McPherson via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

[External]
Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week, and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting, and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up to speed.

"Road Classification" is an important topic for roads agencies, it helps define the funding and prioritisation for development and maintenance of the road network in a country.

With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example, the highway tag:


uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District", "Local" etc.

What this means is that the road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping.

As part of my work, I am trying to encourage Roads Agencies to review OSM mapping, to compare with their official definitions, and to update OSM based on their own records. However, the differences in the classification terminologies are a barrier to this. Every country potentially has a different classification system. We have been discussing internally that an extra "layer" on top of OSM might be a way forward, but that is an overhead and requires extra cost and administration.

Would be grateful for anyone's views on this.

Regards, Kevin McPherson




On Saturday, April 6, 2019, 3:34:19 PM GMT+1, Ralf Bernhardt <[hidden email]> wrote:


My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Jean-Marc Liotier
In reply to this post by Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
On 4/7/19 6:59 PM, Kevin McPherson via HOT wrote:
road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping. [..]

Though Openstreetmap strives for global definitions, local variations also exist. For example, in French Openstreetmap "trunk" must be a dual-carriage way - that rule does not exist in the rest of the Openstreetmap world. But divergence carries the cost of increased complexity - tread lightly there: not all Openstreetmap communities have sufficient power to deal with it.

The ref=* tag might help you: the national highway numbering schemes reflect the national classification - so it might be a good source of "official" truth to carry the national road agency's vision regardless of what the way actually is.


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

john whelan-2
In reply to this post by Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
Generally speaking HOT mappers are armchair mappers so what they map is what they see on a satellite image.  Most instructions these days say tag highways between settlements as unclassified.  There are some old mappings that show highway=track for these although over time these are being retagged.

Look through the African highway wiki and see if you can align what you'd like with what is there.  Now think it terms of a database.  What is in the database is not directly viewable.  However renders such as maperitive for example has rules so that if it says Tertiary in the database it can be displayed as district.

Generally speaking highway tags above unclassified are left alone so if you retag to the tag you think aligns then it will probably stay tagged that way.  I've probably retagged more highways in Africa than anyone retagging highway=road etc.

Cheerio John

On Sun, 7 Apr 2019 at 12:59, Kevin McPherson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week, and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting, and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up to speed.

"Road Classification" is an important topic for roads agencies, it helps define the funding and prioritisation for development and maintenance of the road network in a country.

With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example, the highway tag:


uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District", "Local" etc.

What this means is that the road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping.

As part of my work, I am trying to encourage Roads Agencies to review OSM mapping, to compare with their official definitions, and to update OSM based on their own records. However, the differences in the classification terminologies are a barrier to this. Every country potentially has a different classification system. We have been discussing internally that an extra "layer" on top of OSM might be a way forward, but that is an overhead and requires extra cost and administration.

Would be grateful for anyone's views on this.

Regards, Kevin McPherson




On Saturday, April 6, 2019, 3:34:19 PM GMT+1, Ralf Bernhardt <[hidden email]> wrote:


My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
In reply to this post by Walker Kosmidou-Bradley
Walker, thank you for that. It's an interesting approach, and in fact I've just had someone else suggest use of "ref". Would be interesting to see how many others have used this approach, will keep you posted.

Best regards, Kevin


On Sunday, April 7, 2019, 6:11:16 PM GMT+1, Walker Kosmidou-Bradley <[hidden email]> wrote:


Dear Kevin,

In many countries, the country designations are mapped to the OSM conventions and then the Main, District, or Local to which you allude could be a part of the ref/number.  Afghanistan has a pretty simple process to go from from OSM to national data (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Afghanistan) please note that this highway tag list was adapted from the fine work done for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa.

In Afghanistan, the government knows that OSM secondary roads are “district roads” and the ref number reflects that, e.g. D320781 (Secondary) and NH1010 (Trunk), Afghanistan doesn’t use the motorway designation from OSM.  If they need to change the tag after downloading, a simple if/than script can make the adjustment in a couple minutes.

I’m happy to learn more how other folks have tackled this issue.

Best,

Walker

On Apr 7, 2019, at 21:30, Kevin McPherson via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

[External]
Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week, and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting, and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up to speed.

"Road Classification" is an important topic for roads agencies, it helps define the funding and prioritisation for development and maintenance of the road network in a country.

With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example, the highway tag:


uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District", "Local" etc.

What this means is that the road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping.

As part of my work, I am trying to encourage Roads Agencies to review OSM mapping, to compare with their official definitions, and to update OSM based on their own records. However, the differences in the classification terminologies are a barrier to this. Every country potentially has a different classification system. We have been discussing internally that an extra "layer" on top of OSM might be a way forward, but that is an overhead and requires extra cost and administration.

Would be grateful for anyone's views on this.

Regards, Kevin McPherson




On Saturday, April 6, 2019, 3:34:19 PM GMT+1, Ralf Bernhardt <[hidden email]> wrote:


My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Michael Heißmeier-2
In reply to this post by Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
Hello Kevin,

the wiki is always a good resource. There are project pages for many countries which contain tagging guidelines inluding a translation from official classification to OSM classification, e.g.:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_India  =>  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India:Tags/Highway

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_South_Africa  =>  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/South_African_Tagging_Guidelines

For many countries covered by HOT projects such pages do not exist which led to the creation of a few guidelines by HOT already mentioned in this thread:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Any modifications should best be discussed (and finally documented) on these pages.

 
Michael
(osm:michael63)
Chairman of the HOT Training Working Group



Kevin McPherson via HOT, 07.04.19 18:59:
Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week, and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting, and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up to speed.

"Road Classification" is an important topic for roads agencies, it helps define the funding and prioritisation for development and maintenance of the road network in a country.

With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example, the highway tag:


uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District", "Local" etc.

What this means is that the road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping.

As part of my work, I am trying to encourage Roads Agencies to review OSM mapping, to compare with their official definitions, and to update OSM based on their own records. However, the differences in the classification terminologies are a barrier to this. Every country potentially has a different classification system. We have been discussing internally that an extra "layer" on top of OSM might be a way forward, but that is an overhead and requires extra cost and administration.

Would be grateful for anyone's views on this.

Regards, Kevin McPherson




On Saturday, April 6, 2019, 3:34:19 PM GMT+1, Ralf Bernhardt [hidden email] wrote:


My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot



_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
In reply to this post by Jean-Marc Liotier
Many thanks,I've had other communications suggesting this too, interested in seeing how other countries are doing this, and whether there is any consistency.

On Sunday, April 7, 2019, 6:18:52 PM GMT+1, Jean-Marc Liotier <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 4/7/19 6:59 PM, Kevin McPherson via HOT wrote:
road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping. [..]

Though Openstreetmap strives for global definitions, local variations also exist. For example, in French Openstreetmap "trunk" must be a dual-carriage way - that rule does not exist in the rest of the Openstreetmap world. But divergence carries the cost of increased complexity - tread lightly there: not all Openstreetmap communities have sufficient power to deal with it.

The ref=* tag might help you: the national highway numbering schemes reflect the national classification - so it might be a good source of "official" truth to carry the national road agency's vision regardless of what the way actually is.


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Thank you from MSF!

Ralf Bernhardt
In reply to this post by Walker Kosmidou-Bradley

Some countries in Africa have their own tagging Standards

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Namibian_Tagging_Standards

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/South_African_Tagging_Guidelines

I think we should  encourage all local communities to develop their own guidelines

For national  road reference systems we would either need odbl compatible open data or help from people with local knowledge.

Hot related projects  are following (they try to) most of the time the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa guidelines

Ralf


On 07.04.19 19:11, Walker Kosmidou-Bradley wrote:
Dear Kevin,

In many countries, the country designations are mapped to the OSM conventions and then the Main, District, or Local to which you allude could be a part of the ref/number.  Afghanistan has a pretty simple process to go from from OSM to national data (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Afghanistan) please note that this highway tag list was adapted from the fine work done for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa.

In Afghanistan, the government knows that OSM secondary roads are “district roads” and the ref number reflects that, e.g. D320781 (Secondary) and NH1010 (Trunk), Afghanistan doesn’t use the motorway designation from OSM.  If they need to change the tag after downloading, a simple if/than script can make the adjustment in a couple minutes.

I’m happy to learn more how other folks have tackled this issue.

Best,

Walker

On Apr 7, 2019, at 21:30, Kevin McPherson via HOT <[hidden email]> wrote:

[External]
Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week, and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting, and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up to speed.

"Road Classification" is an important topic for roads agencies, it helps define the funding and prioritisation for development and maintenance of the road network in a country.

With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example, the highway tag:


uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District", "Local" etc.

What this means is that the road network classification in OSM is never quite the same as that used by the Roads Agency, and there are discrepancies between the "official" data of the roads agency, and the OSM definition. This causes confusion to anyone who wants accurate mapping.

As part of my work, I am trying to encourage Roads Agencies to review OSM mapping, to compare with their official definitions, and to update OSM based on their own records. However, the differences in the classification terminologies are a barrier to this. Every country potentially has a different classification system. We have been discussing internally that an extra "layer" on top of OSM might be a way forward, but that is an overhead and requires extra cost and administration.

Would be grateful for anyone's views on this.

Regards, Kevin McPherson




On Saturday, April 6, 2019, 3:34:19 PM GMT+1, Ralf Bernhardt <[hidden email]> wrote:


My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:
There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:
Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:
Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Sent from Postbox
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Regional highway tag values | Re: Thank you from MSF!

ebel
In reply to this post by Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
On 07/04/2019 18:59, Kevin McPherson via HOT wrote:
> Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week,
> and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting,
> and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up
> to speed.

Welcome to OSM!

> With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never
> quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example,
> the highway tag:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway
>
> uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national
> roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District",
> "Local" etc.

That is certainly something that can be confusing at first. Although OSM
tags/keys/values are written in English ("highway"), it's better to not
"read" them and pretend they are just opaque computer codes, which you
'translate' into your own local language, or region specific thing.
Rather than reading highway=trunk, pretend it says uvtujnl=gehax. In the
USA "highway" means something different, so it can be confusing, but if
you just think "What does uvtujnl mean in my country/region?", A British
person translates it as "highway", an American "street", a German
"Straße" etc. Then, rather than seeing "trunk", see "gehax", and ask
what that means in your language/place.

The OSM wiki has a big list of how to translate each highway value into
regional equivalents:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence

In Ireland, we have highway=trunk for "National Primary",
highway=primary for "National Secondary", highway=secondary "Regional",
highway=tertiary "(low numbered) Local", and highway=unclassified for
the rest.

The local community for each country should decide on such a
"translation", and then use that. Write that in the wiki and talk to
OSMers to tell them. (I wonder if iD's regional specific translations
might be useful here (e.g. to translate "highway=trunk" in en_IE to
"National Primary"... 🤔)

I hope that helps.

Rory


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Roads, driving & Wiki | Re: Thank you from MSF!

ebel
In reply to this post by Ralf Bernhardt
On 05/04/2019 20:10, Ralf Bernhardt wrote:
> There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
> boundarys and place names.

These can, and are, added to OSM. 🙂

> I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I
> would guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto
> should be highway=path in OSM.

Wikipedia's goal is a "Neutral Point of View", OSM's is "No
Point of View", to only store objective things, to never store
subjective things. "This road is not passable by a car" depends a lot on
the type of car! A 4x4 Land Rover can drive on roads a Porsche sports
car can't. We tag _legal_ restrictions on roads ("Cars are not
legally permitted to drive here"), since everyone agrees on that.

There is a `tracktype` key (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype ) with 5 values for
how smooth/wellmaintained the road/track is. You can also map the
`surface` and `width` of roads. There are some less popular tags that
might be useful to you like `4wd_only=yes/no`, `sac_scale` or `mtb:scale`.

> Is there a reason for that or will you change them later?

OSM is a map made by everyone, including you (if you want). 🙂 Don't be
afraid to correct mistakes in OSM, don't be afraid to make OSM better if
you see something that should be improved. It's wiki, open to everyone.
🙂 Please feel free to change it yourself. 🙂

Rory


_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Regional highway tag values | Re: Thank you from MSF!

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list
In reply to this post by ebel

Thanks Rory

There are some generic guidelines on how to do tagging, e.g.

Highway Tag - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag Africa - OpenStreetMap Wiki

and additionally there may be some more country-specific guidelines (I’ve found the following so far, some as a result of replies from contributors over the past week or so):

Highway Tag Afghanistan - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag East Africa Tagging - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag Ghana Road Network - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag India:- OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag Malawi - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag Namibia - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag Nepal/Roads - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag Philippines Guidelines - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Highway Tag South Africa - OpenStreetMap Wiki

The following list contains an additional 30 or so countries (some of which are included above, but not all), so there doesn’t seem to be a definitive list of how countries tag their own classifications:

                              https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging

They’re all similar, but can be subtly different.

In any event, I haven’t found a single, definitive page of how countries tag their highways yet, but am consolidating one!


On Friday, April 12, 2019, 1:41:24 PM GMT+1, Rory McCann <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 07/04/2019 18:59, Kevin McPherson via HOT wrote:
> Dear all, I am new to this HOT interface on OSM, but joined last week,
> and interested in road classification in OSM. This is my first posting,
> and first time I have engaged with anyone on OSM, so am still getting up
> to speed.

Welcome to OSM!

> With regards to OSM, one issue is that the <highway> tag in OSM is never
> quite the same as the official definition of the country. For example,
> the highway tag:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway
>
> uses "Motorway", "Trunk", "Primary", "Secondary" etc. while a national
> roads agency might use other terminology such as "Main", "District",
> "Local" etc.

That is certainly something that can be confusing at first. Although OSM
tags/keys/values are written in English ("highway"), it's better to not
"read" them and pretend they are just opaque computer codes, which you
'translate' into your own local language, or region specific thing.
Rather than reading highway=trunk, pretend it says uvtujnl=gehax. In the
USA "highway" means something different, so it can be confusing, but if
you just think "What does uvtujnl mean in my country/region?", A British
person translates it as "highway", an American "street", a German
"Straße" etc. Then, rather than seeing "trunk", see "gehax", and ask
what that means in your language/place.

The OSM wiki has a big list of how to translate each highway value into
regional equivalents:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence

In Ireland, we have highway=trunk for "National Primary",
highway=primary for "National Secondary", highway=secondary "Regional",
highway=tertiary "(low numbered) Local", and highway=unclassified for
the rest.

The local community for each country should decide on such a
"translation", and then use that. Write that in the wiki and talk to
OSMers to tell them. (I wonder if iD's regional specific translations
might be useful here (e.g. to translate "highway=trunk" in en_IE to
"National Primary"... 🤔)

I hope that helps.

Rory



_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Roads, driving & Wiki | Re: Thank you from MSF!

Ralf Bernhardt
In reply to this post by ebel
I change these things from time to time. :)

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rab/history

But my question is still why the organizations that pretend to use OSM
data don't help with troubleshooting.

Ralf

On 12.04.19 15:01, Rory McCann wrote:

> On 05/04/2019 20:10, Ralf Bernhardt wrote:
>> There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
>> boundarys and place names.
>
> These can, and are, added to OSM. 🙂
>
>> I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I
>> would guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto
>> should be highway=path in OSM.
>
> Wikipedia's goal is a "Neutral Point of View", OSM's is "No
> Point of View", to only store objective things, to never store
> subjective things. "This road is not passable by a car" depends a lot on
> the type of car! A 4x4 Land Rover can drive on roads a Porsche sports
> car can't. We tag _legal_ restrictions on roads ("Cars are not
> legally permitted to drive here"), since everyone agrees on that.
>
> There is a `tracktype` key (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype ) with 5 values for
> how smooth/wellmaintained the road/track is. You can also map the
> `surface` and `width` of roads. There are some less popular tags that
> might be useful to you like `4wd_only=yes/no`, `sac_scale` or
> `mtb:scale`.
>
>> Is there a reason for that or will you change them later?
>
> OSM is a map made by everyone, including you (if you want). 🙂 Don't be
> afraid to correct mistakes in OSM, don't be afraid to make OSM better if
> you see something that should be improved. It's wiki, open to
> everyone. 🙂 Please feel free to change it yourself. 🙂
>
> Rory
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Roads, driving & Wiki | Re: Thank you from MSF!

Jorieke Vyncke
Hi all,
We are doing already our best in collecting data directly in OSM and feeding back data into OSM. Not only remote mapping is part of Missing Maps! ;) 
But indeed, not all points that are in our MSF database are currently in OSM.
However, we would like to move from an ad hoc way of working to making this as our standard. So we started working on this! It contains work around governance and data sharing, and technical knowledge. On that latest front we are currently having questions like: how do we make our own database interact with OSM? And OSM with our own internal database? How do we create a full feedback loop?
So if there are people having practical experience with doing this within their own organisation/company/....?  I would be great to have a chat with you! If you would have insights for us, please email me on my msf email adress in cc here.
Thanks a lot!
Jorieke

Op vr 12 apr. 2019 om 17:59 schreef Ralf Bernhardt <[hidden email]>:
I change these things from time to time. :)

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rab/history

But my question is still why the organizations that pretend to use OSM
data don't help with troubleshooting.

Ralf

On 12.04.19 15:01, Rory McCann wrote:
> On 05/04/2019 20:10, Ralf Bernhardt wrote:
>> There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
>> boundarys and place names.
>
> These can, and are, added to OSM. 🙂
>
>> I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I
>> would guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto
>> should be highway=path in OSM.
>
> Wikipedia's goal is a "Neutral Point of View", OSM's is "No
> Point of View", to only store objective things, to never store
> subjective things. "This road is not passable by a car" depends a lot on
> the type of car! A 4x4 Land Rover can drive on roads a Porsche sports
> car can't. We tag _legal_ restrictions on roads ("Cars are not
> legally permitted to drive here"), since everyone agrees on that.
>
> There is a `tracktype` key (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype ) with 5 values for
> how smooth/wellmaintained the road/track is. You can also map the
> `surface` and `width` of roads. There are some less popular tags that
> might be useful to you like `4wd_only=yes/no`, `sac_scale` or
> `mtb:scale`.
>
>> Is there a reason for that or will you change them later?
>
> OSM is a map made by everyone, including you (if you want). 🙂 Don't be
> afraid to correct mistakes in OSM, don't be afraid to make OSM better if
> you see something that should be improved. It's wiki, open to
> everyone. 🙂 Please feel free to change it yourself. 🙂
>
> Rory
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot