The OSM UK map

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The OSM UK map

Bob Hawkins
I wish to add my own pennies’ worth from a walker’s and mapper’s perspective on three matters:
1. The portrayal of barriers: we know kissing gates are not rendered in OSM but are rendered in Andy Townsend’s map.  In neither case, though, do barriers stand out strongly enough, in my opinion.  I created coloured images of a gate, kissing gate and stile for use with my Garmin eTrex Legend many years ago for this reason.  I continue to use them now in Locus Map on my smartphone.  I wish more attention would be applied; to place an appropriate image within a square, even, so that they are more visible.
2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; Andy's cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have experience with.”  Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a permissive footpath and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map (https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15&lat=53.11419&lon=-1.31171): the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the bridleway is shown as others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as permissive paths are concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse riders a tremendous service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW route would have to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, which we can enjoy so much now.
3. Writing of beautiful views, my final item concerns scenic paths:  I have commented elsewhere that I wish paths with scenic views could be treated like the road atlases I remember where a green ribbon was placed alongside such roads.  I have been unaware that “description” tags have been used in OSM in the same way.  I wonder, though, what purpose such a tag achieves, or could achieve?

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Re: The OSM UK map

Andy Townsend

On 10/31/17 19:04, Bob Hawkins wrote:

1. The portrayal of barriers: we know kissing gates are not rendered in OSM but are rendered in Andy Townsend’s map.  In neither case, though, do barriers stand out strongly enough, in my opinion.  I created coloured images of a gate, kissing gate and stile for use with my Garmin eTrex Legend many years ago for this reason.  I continue to use them now in Locus Map on my smartphone.  I wish more attention would be applied; to place an appropriate image within a square, even, so that they are more visible.

My use of "the smallest icons I could get away with" for barriers was a deliberate style decision; by all means try differently coloured or larger ones.  There's a "soup to nuts" set of instructions at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SomeoneElse/Ubuntu_1604_tileserver_load and once you've done that you can play around with icons and see how they work with everything else.

2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; Andy's cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have experience with.”  Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a permissive footpath and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map (https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15&lat=53.11419&lon=-1.31171):

That's a different area - unfortunately you need to click "permalink" at the top right to get the URL to update (arguably that's a bug - if anyone knows of an "automatic permalink" plugin for leaflet I'll fix it).

the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the bridleway is shown as others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as permissive paths are concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse riders a tremendous service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW route would have to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, which we can enjoy so much now.

I think the "permissive paths" comment meant that I don't have a specific rendering for any "permissive" designation (which is correct - they'll just appear as grey).  There's certainly an argument to be had about displaying these but I'm not sure what signifier you'd want to use (OS and Nick's fork use dash length for "type of path"; my original uses colour, and there aren't that many colours left).

3. Writing of beautiful views, my final item concerns scenic paths:  I have commented elsewhere that I wish paths with scenic views could be treated like the road atlases I remember where a green ribbon was placed alongside such roads.  I have been unaware that “description” tags have been used in OSM in the same way.  I wonder, though, what purpose such a tag achieves, or could achieve?

Can you give some examples of how such things are tagged?  It might be possible to work something out, but parsing something based on the description would be difficult.

Best Regards,
Andy


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Re: The OSM UK map

Nick Whitelegg-2
In reply to this post by Bob Hawkins

>2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; Andy's >cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have experience with.”  >Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a permissive footpath >and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map >(https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15&lat=53.11419&>lon=-1.31171): the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the >bridleway is shown as others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as >permissive paths are concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse >riders a tremendous service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW >route would have to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, >which we can enjoy so much now.


By this I mean permissive paths are shown (Andy, correct me if I'm wrong) with the default black dashed lines rather than their own colour scheme, e.g


https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15&lat=50.97926&lon=-0.9845


If you look at Butser Hill (the area round the 270m summit) there are various paths rendered in black dashed lines; all these are tagged as permissive.



Nick



From: Bob Hawkins <[hidden email]>
Sent: 31 October 2017 19:04:55
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Talk-GB] The OSM UK map
 
I wish to add my own pennies’ worth from a walker’s and mapper’s perspective on three matters:
1. The portrayal of barriers: we know kissing gates are not rendered in OSM but are rendered in Andy Townsend’s map.  In neither case, though, do barriers stand out strongly enough, in my opinion.  I created coloured images of a gate, kissing gate and stile for use with my Garmin eTrex Legend many years ago for this reason.  I continue to use them now in Locus Map on my smartphone.  I wish more attention would be applied; to place an appropriate image within a square, even, so that they are more visible.
2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; Andy's cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have experience with.”  Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a permissive footpath and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map (https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15&lat=53.11419&lon=-1.31171): the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the bridleway is shown as others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as permissive paths are concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse riders a tremendous service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW route would have to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, which we can enjoy so much now.
3. Writing of beautiful views, my final item concerns scenic paths:  I have commented elsewhere that I wish paths with scenic views could be treated like the road atlases I remember where a green ribbon was placed alongside such roads.  I have been unaware that “description” tags have been used in OSM in the same way.  I wonder, though, what purpose such a tag achieves, or could achieve?

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Re: The OSM UK map

Paul Berry
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend
Can you give some examples of how such things are tagged?  It might be possible to work something out, but parsing something based on the description would be difficult.

scenic=yes but such tagging is rather subjective by its nature and extremely scarce in the UK: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/scenic#overview


Regards,
Paul

On 2 November 2017 at 07:49, Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 10/31/17 19:04, Bob Hawkins wrote:

1. The portrayal of barriers: we know kissing gates are not rendered in OSM but are rendered in Andy Townsend’s map.  In neither case, though, do barriers stand out strongly enough, in my opinion.  I created coloured images of a gate, kissing gate and stile for use with my Garmin eTrex Legend many years ago for this reason.  I continue to use them now in Locus Map on my smartphone.  I wish more attention would be applied; to place an appropriate image within a square, even, so that they are more visible.

My use of "the smallest icons I could get away with" for barriers was a deliberate style decision; by all means try differently coloured or larger ones.  There's a "soup to nuts" set of instructions at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SomeoneElse/Ubuntu_1604_tileserver_load and once you've done that you can play around with icons and see how they work with everything else.

2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “permissive paths need showing; Andy's cartography does not yet do this but again this is something I have experience with.”  Woodhouse Farm in Ipsden, South Oxfordshire has provided a permissive footpath and permissive bridleways.  Both are shown on Andy’s map (https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=15&lat=53.11419&lon=-1.31171):

That's a different area - unfortunately you need to click "permalink" at the top right to get the URL to update (arguably that's a bug - if anyone knows of an "automatic permalink" plugin for leaflet I'll fix it).

the footpath is overlaid with a pink dashed line and the bridleway is shown as others, simply.  I wonder what is the intention so far as permissive paths are concerned?  Woodhouse Farm has done walkers and horse riders a tremendous service by making these paths available.  The alternative PRoW route would have to be through woodland, obscuring otherwise beautiful views, which we can enjoy so much now.

I think the "permissive paths" comment meant that I don't have a specific rendering for any "permissive" designation (which is correct - they'll just appear as grey).  There's certainly an argument to be had about displaying these but I'm not sure what signifier you'd want to use (OS and Nick's fork use dash length for "type of path"; my original uses colour, and there aren't that many colours left).

3. Writing of beautiful views, my final item concerns scenic paths:  I have commented elsewhere that I wish paths with scenic views could be treated like the road atlases I remember where a green ribbon was placed alongside such roads.  I have been unaware that “description” tags have been used in OSM in the same way.  I wonder, though, what purpose such a tag achieves, or could achieve?

Can you give some examples of how such things are tagged?  It might be possible to work something out, but parsing something based on the description would be difficult.

Best Regards,
Andy


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Re: The OSM UK map

David Woolley
In reply to this post by Bob Hawkins
On 31/10/17 19:04, Bob Hawkins wrote:
> 2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “/permissive paths need showing/

I hope this means distinguishing from public ones, rather than that they
are currently not rendered!

Almost every path in a council or Royal park is a permissive path, even
if very few of them are correctly tagged as such.


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Re: The OSM UK map

Andy Townsend


On 11/02/17 10:32, David Woolley wrote:
> On 31/10/17 19:04, Bob Hawkins wrote:
>> 2. Permissive paths: I do not understand “/permissive paths need
>> showing/
>
> I hope this means distinguishing from public ones, rather than that
> they are currently not rendered!
>

They'll currently appear like the top "undesignated" row at:

http://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16&lat=-24.99242&lon=135.08868

(that legend's at
https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style-legend BTW - it's
just some data pretending to be in the middle of Australia).

I'd encourage anyone who wants to see how things look to just have a go
with changing the rendering (colours, dashes instead of dots or
whatever) and seeing what works and what doesn't.   Nick's changed the
rendering of bridleways in the OSM UK rendering to be closer to the OS's
dashed rendering, but obviously that has knock-on effects elsewhere, and
it's often easier to show a screenshot of the effect of a change rather
than try to describe it.

Best Regards,

Andy


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