The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

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The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

Andy Mabbett
Some of you will remember, around five years ago, a debate about
whether or not we should add Wikidata IDs to OSM.

We did, and so here's "EqualStreetNames.Brussels", an example of what
is now possible:

   https://equalstreetnames.brussels/en/index.html

It shows streets in Brussels named after men and women, visualized
with data from OpenStreetMap and Wikidata.

Does anyone have other good examples?

--
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@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

Rodrigo Rodríguez
GeoChicas has a similar project: https://geochicasosm.github.io/lascallesdelasmujeres/

El 3 de marzo de 2020 10:17:02 GMT-06:00, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> escribió:
Some of you will remember, around five years ago, a debate about
whether or not we should add Wikidata IDs to OSM.

We did, and so here's "EqualStreetNames.Brussels", an example of what
is now possible:

https://equalstreetnames.brussels/en/index.html

It shows streets in Brussels named after men and women, visualized
with data from OpenStreetMap and Wikidata.

Does anyone have other good examples?

--
Enviado desde mi dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Por favor, disculpa mi brevedad.
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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

Oleksiy Muzalyev
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett
On 03-Mar-20 17:17, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> Some of you will remember, around five years ago, a debate about
> whether or not we should add Wikidata IDs to OSM.
>
> We did, and so here's "EqualStreetNames.Brussels", an example of what
> is now possible:
>
>     https://equalstreetnames.brussels/en/index.html
>
> It shows streets in Brussels named after men and women, visualized
> with data from OpenStreetMap and Wikidata.
>
> Does anyone have other good examples?
>
I wrote a simple tool, which allows to view the Wikidata items, which
have the coordinates in the items themselves, on the OSM map:

http://ausleuchtung.ch/geo_wiki/?lat=46.66761954912767&lng=6.472320556640626&zm=13&lang=en&ds=wkd&rd=3

It is done via the MediaWikiAPI (in areas with large concentration of
Wikidata items reduce the radius from 10 to 2 or even to 1 km).

It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map, but also
to add (or verify) the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items
themselves, so that they could be viewed on the OSM map via this and
other similar tools.

Another thing, - quite often a Wikidata item may happen not to have a
title, i.e. its label in English was not created yet (in this case, this
tool shows "en title is absent"  on the geo-marker text). However, it is
relatively easy to add the label's translation in English and also in
other languages for a Wikidata item. In other words, some Wikidata items
themselves may benefit from attention.



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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list



Mar 4, 2020, 16:42 by [hidden email]:
It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map, but also to add (or verify)
the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items themselves,
Using OSM data?

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list
Yes, it is possible. The Wikipedia Foundation and its community must allow that and need to get in dialogue with us (us=OSM Community (speaking code)) or we with them.

Cheers

Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata
From: Mateusz Konieczny via talk
To:
CC: OSM talk mailing list





Mar 4, 2020, 16:42 by [hidden email]:
It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map, but also to add (or verify)
the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items themselves,
Using OSM data?

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

Oleksiy Muzalyev
In reply to this post by General Discussion mailing list
On 3/4/20 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:



Mar 4, 2020, 16:42 by [hidden email]:
It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map, but also to add (or verify)
the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items themselves,
Using OSM data?


    

I would rather say using the ground truth. Preferably by visiting an object, verifying its location by GPS device, by direct observation, taking some photos for its Wikimedia category, recording a GPS trace, talking to locals, etc.

And updating both, the OSM data and the Wikidata item.


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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

Harald Schwarz
In reply to this post by Oleksiy Muzalyev
Hello,

since I am interested in streetnames and the historical background of the names of streets
I did myself an investigation on gender in streetnames of Düsseldorf, capital of Northrhine-Westfalia.

This is what I found out:

Some statistics on Düsseldorf Streetnames (german - english):
Statistik der Düsseldorfer Straßennamen

2916 = Anzahl aller Straßennamen - number of all streets
221 = noch nicht zugeordnet - unknown status, perhaps person
720 = nach Personen benannt - named after person
680 = nach männlichen Personen benannt - named after male person
94.444444 = Prozent männliche Bennennung - percentage of male names
42 = nach weiblichen Personen benannt - named afer female person
5.833333 = Prozent weibliche Bennennung - percentage of female names
68 = nach anonymen männlichen Personen benannt - anonymous male names, for example firstnames only
43 = nach anonymen weiblichen Personen benannt - annonymous femal names
13 = nach fiktiven männlichen Personen benannt - fictional male names
8 = nach fiktiven weiblichen Personen benannt - fictional femal names

As OSM lacks the concept of "STREET" I didn't know where to store my information in OpenStreetMap.
Streets in OSM are puzzeled into many piece, depending on surface, speedlimits or light conditions.
Even the associatedStreet-Relations in Germany were removed some months ago.

Actually I think that it should be enough to put information about the naming background to just one
single part of the street in OSM. Applications can then use this info for the whole street.

My way to generate a map showing the gender of the name givers in Düsseldorf streets was to use
overpass-turbo and hardcoding the names and gender in the CSS-Style.

I tried to add my overpass-turbo-query to this mail. Hope this is accepted.
[NO, this failed. Mail To big and hold back If interresed, contact me directly.)

I think it is much better to store the information in OSM, wikidata and wikipedia, so that everybody can use this
information.

So in future I will try to put infos about the naming background of Düsseldorf streets to OSM, WikiData and Wikipedia.


Greetings from Ratingen
Harald Schwarz
black_bike



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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list
In reply to this post by General Discussion mailing list



Mar 4, 2020, 18:58 by [hidden email]:
Mar 4, 2020, 16:42 by [hidden email]:
It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map, but also to add (or verify)
the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items themselves,
Using OSM data?
Yes, it is possible.
No, it is not. Wikidata is CC0 licenced, OSM is ODBL licenced.


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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list
Did I say "dialogue"? This is a matter of communication.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Re:[OSM-talk] The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata
From: Mateusz Konieczny
To: Sören Reinecke
CC: OSM talk mailing list





Mar 4, 2020, 18:58 by [hidden email]:
Mar 4, 2020, 16:42 by [hidden email]:
It is possible not only to add the Wikidata IDs to the OSM map, but also to add (or verify)
the geographical coordinates in the Wikidata items themselves,
Using OSM data?
Yes, it is possible.
No, it is not. Wikidata is CC0 licenced, OSM is ODBL licenced.


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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

dieterdreist


Am Mi., 4. März 2020 um 20:56 Uhr schrieb Sören Reinecke via talk <[hidden email]>:
Did I say "dialogue"? This is a matter of communication.


What should be agreed on? Wikidata moving to ODbL? We moving to CC0? What other options do you see?

Cheers
Martin

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list
No. Exceptions for both organisations on both site to use/lisence certain data differently than normal. Both organisations Wikipedia Foundation and OpenStreetMap Foundation would need to sign an aggreement.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata
From: Martin Koppenhoefer
To: Sören Reinecke
CC: Mateusz Konieczny ,OSM talk mailing list




Am Mi., 4. März 2020 um 20:56 Uhr schrieb Sören Reinecke via talk <[hidden email]>:
Did I say "dialogue"? This is a matter of communication.


What should be agreed on? Wikidata moving to ODbL? We moving to CC0? What other options do you see?

Cheers
Martin

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

joost
In reply to this post by Andy Mabbett
Hi Andy,

Nice to see the project picked up here. It was a fun one to be involved in.

Note that it works based on a mix. The core of the program is "take the streets, find the etymology tag, query wikidata for the person, then their gender". But we do have a csv with the streetnames and their associated gender.
The gender in the CSV was assigned by humans, based on websearching. Automatic approaches don't always work, since several streets just have a last name but are in fact named after a single person, not a family.
In the long run, it would be awesome if all these humans get their wiki page. We didn't have the time to make that happen in this project. Se we only added wikidata tags to OpenStreetMap in cases where the q-number was already available.
Note that we didn't need to use any OSM data for improving Wikidata in this project.

Some cool things this project entails:
- I've seen a prototype that works without the CSV. So it works around the globe; the only thing needed to make it work is adding the wikidata tags in OSM
- this approach can be first step to making all sorts of nifty maps, like colouring the streets named after people in a certain profession, or from a certain century. Or make a map where neighborhoods show up where the streets are named after flowers or birds.

(Issues welcome of course)
We had a few contacts with GeoChicas, but Jonathan decided to build from scratch. Exactly because of the focus on the wikidata approach - the list of names is a fallback only. I hope we can do some more exchange of experience soon.

Joost
Note: I only helped to convince the people involved to use OpenStreetMap, and supported the project here and there

Op di 3 mrt. 2020 om 17:21 schreef Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]>:
Some of you will remember, around five years ago, a debate about
whether or not we should add Wikidata IDs to OSM.

We did, and so here's "EqualStreetNames.Brussels", an example of what
is now possible:

   https://equalstreetnames.brussels/en/index.html

It shows streets in Brussels named after men and women, visualized
with data from OpenStreetMap and Wikidata.

Does anyone have other good examples?

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by General Discussion mailing list


Am Do., 5. März 2020 um 14:36 Uhr schrieb Sören Reinecke <[hidden email]>:
No. Exceptions for both organisations on both site to use/lisence certain data differently than normal. Both organisations Wikipedia Foundation and OpenStreetMap Foundation would need to sign an aggreement.


From my understanding of the OSM contributor terms, the OSMF does not have the faculty to grant exceptions from the license, which the majority of active contributors have chosen (currently ODbL), i.e. such an agreement would require to make a voting amongst all active contributors on the OSM side. No idea about wikidata terms, likely they would not need to change anything, wikidata is already very permissive.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list
couldn't we do a vote about that? Would it be possible for the OSMF to maintain and coordinate such a voting.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata
From: Martin Koppenhoefer
To: Sören Reinecke
CC: Mateusz Konieczny ,OSM talk mailing list




Am Do., 5. März 2020 um 14:36 Uhr schrieb Sören Reinecke <[hidden email]>:
No. Exceptions for both organisations on both site to use/lisence certain data differently than normal. Both organisations Wikipedia Foundation and OpenStreetMap Foundation would need to sign an aggreement.


From my understanding of the OSM contributor terms, the OSMF does not have the faculty to grant exceptions from the license, which the majority of active contributors have chosen (currently ODbL), i.e. such an agreement would require to make a voting amongst all active contributors on the OSM side. No idea about wikidata terms, likely they would not need to change anything, wikidata is already very permissive.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

Frederik Ramm
Hi,

On 05.03.20 15:25, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
> couldn't we do a vote about that? Would it be possible for the OSMF to
> maintain and coordinate such a voting.

No. The OSMF is not at liberty to grant *anyone* exceptions from the ODbL.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

ebel
In reply to this post by General Discussion mailing list
On 05/03/2020 15:25, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
 > couldn't we do a vote about that? Would it be possible for the OSMF to
 > maintain and coordinate such a voting.

Yes, we _could_.

It would require a 2/3 majority of “active [OSM] contributors”, which is
(intentionally) a large number (about 250,000 at the time of writing).
I'm sorry, but a licence change to remove the share alike part of the
OSM licence has microscopic chance of passing... You'll just have to
accept it.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Terms

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

Maarten Deen
On 2020-03-05 15:39, Rory McCann wrote:
> On 05/03/2020 15:25, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
>> couldn't we do a vote about that? Would it be possible for the OSMF to
>> maintain and coordinate such a voting.
>
> Yes, we _could_.
>
> It would require a 2/3 majority of “active [OSM] contributors”,

"and responds to a request to vote within 3 weeks"

> is (intentionally) a large number (about 250,000 at the time of
> writing).

Which will limit that number of 250.000 substantially, and will in fact
limit that number to the number of votes you receive.
If 4 people respond and 3 vote in favor, than that counts as a 2/3
majority as put forward in item 3 of the license.

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list
In reply to this post by ebel



Mar 5, 2020, 15:39 by [hidden email]:
On 05/03/2020 15:25, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
couldn't we do a vote about that? Would it be possible for the OSMF to
maintain and coordinate such a voting.

Yes, we _could_.

It would require a 2/3 majority of “active [OSM] contributors”, which is (intentionally) a large number (about 250,000 at the time of writing). I'm sorry, but a licence change to remove the share alike part of the OSM licence has microscopic chance of passing... You'll just have to accept it.

And I am pretty sure that migrating Wikidata to ODBL is even less likely.

Sadly, you run into a conflict between strategies of this projects.

To make it even more irritating - imports from Wikidata into OSM are also
impossible in general due to licensing issues.


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Re: The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

General Discussion mailing list
In reply to this post by Maarten Deen
Right. Since the definition of "active contributor" includes "has maintained a valid email address in their registration profile and responds to a request to vote within 3 weeks", then people who do not vote do not count as active.
A 2/3 majority voting in favor is not an easy threshold by any means, but I don't think it would be any more difficult for OSMF to *conduct* the vote than it is to conduct the board election.


On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 7:01 AM Maarten Deen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2020-03-05 15:39, Rory McCann wrote:
> On 05/03/2020 15:25, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
>> couldn't we do a vote about that? Would it be possible for the OSMF to
>> maintain and coordinate such a voting.
>
> Yes, we _could_.
>
> It would require a 2/3 majority of “active [OSM] contributors”,

"and responds to a request to vote within 3 weeks"

> is (intentionally) a large number (about 250,000 at the time of
> writing).

Which will limit that number of 250.000 substantially, and will in fact
limit that number to the number of votes you receive.
If 4 people respond and 3 vote in favor, than that counts as a 2/3
majority as put forward in item 3 of the license.

Regards,
Maarten

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