Tourist bus stop

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Tourist bus stop

Francesco Ansanelli
Dear list,

please find the proposal for the tag in subject:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:highway%3Dtourist_bus_stop

the idea was born during a discussion on Talk-it and it is my first tagging attempt, be kind... :)

Cheers
Francesco


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Re: Tourist bus stop

Joseph Eisenberg
Thank you for making a proposal, Francesco.

A tourist bus stop is a stop reserved to tourist buses.”

The main issue is describing the term “tourist bus” clearly.

The related wiki page Key:tourist_bus says:

The key tourist_bus=* is used to tag legal access restrictions on roads for buses that are not acting as public transport vehicle (for the latter see bus=*).”

This tag originated from a literal translation of the Italian word Autobus turistici[1], which can be understood to be synonymous to a coach.”


So is “tourist_bus=yes” identical to “coach=yes”? 

Does this include “minibuses” and large “vans” used as vehicles for hire?

I assume it excludes intercity buses or buses to national parks, if they run on a regular schedule and sell tickets to the general public?

- Joseph

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:09 AM Francesco Ansanelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear list,

please find the proposal for the tag in subject:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:highway%3Dtourist_bus_stop

the idea was born during a discussion on Talk-it and it is my first tagging attempt, be kind... :)

Cheers
Francesco

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Re: Tourist bus stop

Leif Rasmussen
My main concern is that some bus stops could be both for tourist buses and for public buses. Using ptv2 instead, with public_transport=platform + coach=designated or tourist_bus=designated would be easier.  
Leif Rasmussen

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 8:35 PM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you for making a proposal, Francesco.

A tourist bus stop is a stop reserved to tourist buses.”

The main issue is describing the term “tourist bus” clearly.

The related wiki page Key:tourist_bus says:

The key tourist_bus=* is used to tag legal access restrictions on roads for buses that are not acting as public transport vehicle (for the latter see bus=*).”

This tag originated from a literal translation of the Italian word Autobus turistici[1], which can be understood to be synonymous to a coach.”


So is “tourist_bus=yes” identical to “coach=yes”? 

Does this include “minibuses” and large “vans” used as vehicles for hire?

I assume it excludes intercity buses or buses to national parks, if they run on a regular schedule and sell tickets to the general public?

- Joseph

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:09 AM Francesco Ansanelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear list,

please find the proposal for the tag in subject:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:highway%3Dtourist_bus_stop

the idea was born during a discussion on Talk-it and it is my first tagging attempt, be kind... :)

Cheers
Francesco

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Re: Tourist bus stop

Francesco Ansanelli
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


Il mer 11 set 2019, 02:35 Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
Thank you for making a proposal, Francesco.

A tourist bus stop is a stop reserved to tourist buses.”

The main issue is describing the term “tourist bus” clearly.

The related wiki page Key:tourist_bus says:

The key tourist_bus=* is used to tag legal access restrictions on roads for buses that are not acting as public transport vehicle (for the latter see bus=*).”

This tag originated from a literal translation of the Italian word Autobus turistici[1], which can be understood to be synonymous to a coach.”


So is “tourist_bus=yes” identical to “coach=yes”? 
I think so... But for consistency I would keep the term "tourist_bus"

Does this include “minibuses” and large “vans” used as vehicles for hire?
Probably yes

I assume it excludes intercity buses or buses to national parks, if they run on a regular schedule and sell tickets to the general public?
In my town, the Flixbus buses stop at Central station, this is supposed to be a one-shot stop

- Joseph

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:09 AM Francesco Ansanelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear list,

please find the proposal for the tag in subject:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:highway%3Dtourist_bus_stop

the idea was born during a discussion on Talk-it and it is my first tagging attempt, be kind... :)

Cheers
Francesco

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Re: Tourist bus stop

Francesco Ansanelli
In reply to this post by Leif Rasmussen


Il mer 11 set 2019, 04:39 Leif Rasmussen <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
My main concern is that some bus stops could be both for tourist buses and for public buses. Using ptv2 instead, with public_transport=platform + coach=designated or tourist_bus=designated would be easier.  
Leif Rasmussen

Sure. That cases can be addressed with existing tags...
But a non-public transport option is missing


On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 8:35 PM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you for making a proposal, Francesco.

A tourist bus stop is a stop reserved to tourist buses.”

The main issue is describing the term “tourist bus” clearly.

The related wiki page Key:tourist_bus says:

The key tourist_bus=* is used to tag legal access restrictions on roads for buses that are not acting as public transport vehicle (for the latter see bus=*).”

This tag originated from a literal translation of the Italian word Autobus turistici[1], which can be understood to be synonymous to a coach.”


So is “tourist_bus=yes” identical to “coach=yes”? 

Does this include “minibuses” and large “vans” used as vehicles for hire?

I assume it excludes intercity buses or buses to national parks, if they run on a regular schedule and sell tickets to the general public?

- Joseph

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:09 AM Francesco Ansanelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear list,

please find the proposal for the tag in subject:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:highway%3Dtourist_bus_stop

the idea was born during a discussion on Talk-it and it is my first tagging attempt, be kind... :)

Cheers
Francesco

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Re: Tourist bus stop

Mateusz Konieczny-3
In reply to this post by Francesco Ansanelli
what about bus stops used both by
normal busses and tourism busses?

I would expect highway=bus_stop as
more important feature


10 Sep 2019, 21:07 by [hidden email]:
Dear list,

please find the proposal for the tag in subject:



the idea was born during a discussion on Talk-it and it is my first tagging attempt, be kind... :)

Cheers
Francesco


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Re: Tourist bus stop

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg
Am Mi., 11. Sept. 2019 um 02:35 Uhr schrieb Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]>:
Thank you for making a proposal, Francesco.

A tourist bus stop is a stop reserved to tourist buses.”

The main issue is describing the term “tourist bus” clearly.

The related wiki page Key:tourist_bus says:

The key tourist_bus=* is used to tag legal access restrictions on roads for buses that are not acting as public transport vehicle (for the latter see bus=*).”

This tag originated from a literal translation of the Italian word Autobus turistici[1], which can be understood to be synonymous to a coach.”


So is “tourist_bus=yes” identical to “coach=yes”? 

Does this include “minibuses” and large “vans” used as vehicles for hire?



the details may depend on the legislation in the country. Technically, in many countries a bus is a vehicle where more than 8 people can be transported. According to the access definition of tourist bus it would depend on this. (By the way: when the tourist bus tag was invented it should have become "motor_bus" instead, would have been more consistent and understandable).

For the boarding area that is proposed here, I am not sure whether vehicles smaller as coaches, which are used for the same purpose, are allowed to stop there, but the idea is to have a boarding area which is not the same as for the regular transport, so if minibusses and vans are part of the regular (even informal) transport of your area, and they can only stop at designated bus stops (or minibus stops), then this tag might exclude them (maybe, what would you suggest? In Italy there is no such network of vans and minibusses, and while I have used these in other countries, I didn't completely understand how they were organized and what their legal status was).

 
I assume it excludes intercity buses or buses to national parks, if they run on a regular schedule and sell tickets to the general public?


it may be up to the local conditions/customs. Think about theses places as an area where the bus can only stop to board or unboard people, they may not stay longer, and where public transport does not stop.

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Tourist bus stop

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Leif Rasmussen


Am Mi., 11. Sept. 2019 um 04:39 Uhr schrieb Leif Rasmussen <[hidden email]>:
My main concern is that some bus stops could be both for tourist buses and for public buses. Using ptv2 instead, with public_transport=platform + coach=designated or tourist_bus=designated would be easier.


if both can stop, it is not a tourist bus stop but a regular bus stop where coaches can stop. I have difficulties imagining it, but I would not exclude the possibility. Usually these tourist bus stops are set up in areas with a lot of traffic and few parking space, in these settings you would not want tourist busses to block pt bus stops, the setting where it would be imaginable are low density places where it doesn't matter anyway where you stop (no problem, next bus in 4 hours). For these cases, it could be a property for highway=bus_stop (e.g. tourist_bus=yes / boarding(?))

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Tourist bus stop

Paul Allen
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 10:43, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Am Mi., 11. Sept. 2019 um 04:39 Uhr schrieb Leif Rasmussen <[hidden email]>:

if both can stop, it is not a tourist bus stop but a regular bus stop where coaches can stop. I have difficulties imagining it, but I would not exclude the possibility.

I'm glad you wouldn't exclude the possibility.  There is a bus stop like that in my town.  Occasionally
tourist buses stop there to allow passengers to board so they can go on holiday.  As it happens,
the same company that runs the public buses around here also has a tourist operation which
takes people in the area on holidays, tours, etc.
 
Usually these tourist bus stops are set up in areas with a lot of traffic and few parking space, in these settings you would not want tourist busses to block pt bus stops, the setting where it would be imaginable are low density places where it doesn't matter anyway where you stop (no problem, next bus in 4 hours).

Ummm, the one here is on what is effectively the high street (and used to be named that
many, many years ago).  Several different hourly services stop there.  It's actually a long
"platform," long enough that two buses can stop there at once, which sometimes happens if one
is running a little late.  So there's enough room for an ordinary bus and a tourist bus.

The other place tourist buses stop is a public car park.  Fortunately the annual fair (with
mobile fairground rides) that takes over the car park a few days a year does so in November
when there aren't as many people wanting to travel.

In other places I've lived, tourist and long-distance buses shared a bus station with ordinary
buses.

--
Paul


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Re: Tourist bus stop

dieterdreist
Am Mi., 11. Sept. 2019 um 15:12 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 10:43, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Usually these tourist bus stops are set up in areas with a lot of traffic and few parking space, in these settings you would not want tourist busses to block pt bus stops, the setting where it would be imaginable are low density places where it doesn't matter anyway where you stop (no problem, next bus in 4 hours).

Ummm, the one here is on what is effectively the high street (and used to be named that
many, many years ago).  Several different hourly services stop there.  It's actually a long
"platform," long enough that two buses can stop there at once, which sometimes happens if one
is running a little late.  So there's enough room for an ordinary bus and a tourist bus.


I was a bit exaggerating to make the point, but I guess you would agree that tourist busses stopping at bus stops in central London would not be appreciated. Around here (Rome), many bus stops have room for 2 busses, but with busses approaching every few minutes it would not work having coaches use them as well. In smaller towns it can be possible, but it isn't usual.

 

In other places I've lived, tourist and long-distance buses shared a bus station with ordinary
buses.



this is probably common (also close to or combined with a train station or a subway station)

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Tourist bus stop

Philip Barnes
In reply to this post by Paul Allen


On Wednesday, 11 September 2019, Paul Allen wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 10:43, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Am Mi., 11. Sept. 2019 um 04:39 Uhr schrieb Leif Rasmussen <
> > [hidden email]>:
> >
> > if both can stop, it is not a tourist bus stop but a regular bus stop
> > where coaches can stop. I have difficulties imagining it, but I would not
> > exclude the possibility.
> >
>
> I'm glad you wouldn't exclude the possibility.  There is a bus stop like
> that in my town.  Occasionally
> tourist buses stop there to allow passengers to board so they can go on
> holiday.  As it happens,
> the same company that runs the public buses around here also has a tourist
> operation which
> takes people in the area on holidays, tours, etc.
>
>
> > Usually these tourist bus stops are set up in areas with a lot of traffic
> > and few parking space, in these settings you would not want tourist busses
> > to block pt bus stops, the setting where it would be imaginable are low
> > density places where it doesn't matter anyway where you stop (no problem,
> > next bus in 4 hours).
> >
>
> Ummm, the one here is on what is effectively the high street (and used to
> be named that
> many, many years ago).  Several different hourly services stop there.  It's
> actually a long
> "platform," long enough that two buses can stop there at once, which
> sometimes happens if one
> is running a little late.  So there's enough room for an ordinary bus and a
> tourist bus.
>
> The other place tourist buses stop is a public car park.  Fortunately the
> annual fair (with
> mobile fairground rides) that takes over the car park a few days a year
> does so in November
> when there aren't as many people wanting to travel.
>
> In other places I've lived, tourist and long-distance buses shared a bus
> station with ordinary
> buses.
>
Am still not 100% clear what was originally meant by Tourist bus.

The  description here describes coaches, which are more comfortable than buses and are used for long distances. In French for example this would be the difference between Autocar and Autobus.

I would have considered a tourist bus, to be the buses that travel around Central London giving a guided commentary where tourists can get on and off a certain dedicated bus stops close to tourist attractions.

Phil (trigpoint)

--
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Re: Tourist bus stop

Paul Allen
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 14:31, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

The  description here describes coaches, which are more comfortable than buses and are used for long distances. In French for example this would be the difference between Autocar and Autobus.

That's one end of the spectrum.  I'm not sure I'd call it a tourist bus (English usage).  It's
a long-distance, comfortable bus.  It's just for getting from A to B, not what you do at B
or requiring you to also return.

I would have considered a tourist bus, to be the buses that travel around Central London giving a guided commentary where tourists can get on and off a certain dedicated bus stops close to tourist attractions.

That's the other end of the spectrum.  Tourists turn up in London (somehow) and get one of
those things for a guided tour.

Another point on the spectrum is day tours from town A to town B or event C, such as
https://www.richardsbros.co.uk/day-tours/  They're not daily, or regularly scheduled, and you
need to book, so not public buses.

Elsewhere on the spectrum is coach holidays, from town A to town B, with a tour of town
B (similar to the kind offered by London tourist buses), such as

Both of those examples are from my local bus operator, who runs public buses in my

--
Paul


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Re: Tourist bus stop

Johnparis
I believe that tourism is a characteristic of the line, not the stop. PTv2 handles this (as it does so many cases) quite easily.

Here's an example in central Paris of a stop that is served by a "public" bus line and a "tourist" bus line:


The tagging for the stop is fairly straightforward:
bus=yes
highway=bus_stop
public_transport=platform
ref:FR:Open_Tour=17
route_ref=69;OpenTour

Line 69 is operated by the RATP, the regional transit agency. Open Tour is a tourist line.

By the way, your proposed tag highway=tourist_bus_stop will not render in OSM Carto, the main map people see when they visit openstreetmap.org. As a result, many (if not all) potential mappers will be scared away. <rant>This has been a problem for years since PTv2 was introduced; apparently one person (as I understand it) in the OSM Carto world doesn't like PTv2, and so has blocked its implementation there. After many years, the main editors (iD and JOSM) have finally implemented presets for PTv2, so that's no longer a problem. (Thanks, Polyglot et al.) But the presets unfortunately must include the legacy tags, because OSM Carto won't render PTv2 without them. (Despite comments I sometimes see to the contrary, PTv2 has been wildly successful in terms of usage.)</rant>

I frankly don't see the difference, either, between a "tourist" line and a "public" line. Tourist buses are open to the public and charge a fee, just as public buses do, and in fact "public" bus lines are often privately owned. If you look at the tagging for the Open Tour line (relation, not the individual stop) you will see this:

description=bus touristique
name=Open Tour : Ligne Bleue
network=Open Tour
operator=Open Tour
public_transport:version=2
ref=Bleue
route=bus
type=route

That "description" tag is the only one to differentiate this route from a "public" route. If you really feel such a tag is needed, perhaps simplest would be to add a tag like this to the route:
tourist=only
...or some such

Finally, it would be a good idea to also send a notice of your proposal to the talk-transit list, where others might have good suggestions.

Cheers,

John





On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:48 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 14:31, Philip Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

The  description here describes coaches, which are more comfortable than buses and are used for long distances. In French for example this would be the difference between Autocar and Autobus.

That's one end of the spectrum.  I'm not sure I'd call it a tourist bus (English usage).  It's
a long-distance, comfortable bus.  It's just for getting from A to B, not what you do at B
or requiring you to also return.

I would have considered a tourist bus, to be the buses that travel around Central London giving a guided commentary where tourists can get on and off a certain dedicated bus stops close to tourist attractions.

That's the other end of the spectrum.  Tourists turn up in London (somehow) and get one of
those things for a guided tour.

Another point on the spectrum is day tours from town A to town B or event C, such as
https://www.richardsbros.co.uk/day-tours/  They're not daily, or regularly scheduled, and you
need to book, so not public buses.

Elsewhere on the spectrum is coach holidays, from town A to town B, with a tour of town
B (similar to the kind offered by London tourist buses), such as

Both of those examples are from my local bus operator, who runs public buses in my

--
Paul

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Re: Tourist bus stop

dieterdreist
FWIW, there is in many jurisdictions a vehicle class for busses which is currently covered by the value: "tourist_bus" defined as bus not acting as a public service vehicle.

As I have stated before, "motorbus" would have been a better (more consistent hence self-explaining) choice for the key name of the generic bus vehicle class (but with currently almost 8000 uses of tourist_bus, it seems hard to rename this).

Additionally, for the context of the tourist bus stop, according to what is intended, this definition might not encompass every kind of vehicle that is intended by "tourist bus stop" (e.g. if you want to allow usage for vehicles used for the transportation of tourists, not included in public transport, but also not "buses" by definition).

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: Tourist bus stop

Joseph Eisenberg
The Key:bus has this definition currently
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bus):

"A bus is a large motor vehicle used for public transport of passengers.

"In most countries a bus is a larger public service vehicle or public
transport vehicle used to transport passengers, with more than 9 or 12
seating positions, but the specific definition may vary by location.
Long-distance and inter-city bus and coach=* vehicles may or may not
be included. Trolleybuses are usually included.

"There are two uses of this tag: 1) to specify legal access
restrictions for buses. 2) to specify the type of passenger public
transport vehicle that uses a stop or station.

"Also see the more common access tag psv=* which includes public
transport buses as well as other public service vehicles."

So if "tourist_bus=*" is for all buses which are not a "psv=*", then
it probably should include minibuses and vans, depending on the local
definition of "bus".

For example, I would think there here in Indonesia the minibuses would
be included (which are no larger than an American "minivan", but have
much higher capacity due to lack of seatbelts and use of bench seats).

Most of these are "PSVs" (public service vehicles / public transit)
but some are "for hire" like an Italian tourist bus or an English
hired motorcoach.

I agree that "[motor]coach=" might have been clearer, but I'm ok with
keeping "tourist_bus=*" since it may actually be easier to translate
into most languages, and "coach=*" can also be ambiguous, since it
used to refer to horse-drawn vehicles and passenger railway cars, so
"motorcoach" would have been needed. Also, some definitions of
"coach=" seem to be limited to larger inter-city style buses, with
seatbelts, individual seats instead of benches, etc.

See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:coach

On 9/12/19, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> FWIW, there is in many jurisdictions a vehicle class for busses which is
> currently covered by the value: "tourist_bus" defined as bus not acting as
> a public service vehicle.
>
> As I have stated before, "motorbus" would have been a better (more
> consistent hence self-explaining) choice for the key name of the generic
> bus vehicle class (but with currently almost 8000 uses of tourist_bus, it
> seems hard to rename this).
>
> Additionally, for the context of the tourist bus stop, according to what is
> intended, this definition might not encompass every kind of vehicle that is
> intended by "tourist bus stop" (e.g. if you want to allow usage for
> vehicles used for the transportation of tourists, not included in public
> transport, but also not "buses" by definition).
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>

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Re: Tourist bus stop

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

On 12. Sep 2019, at 02:44, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

The Key:bus has this definition currently
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bus):

"A bus is a large motor vehicle used for public transport of passengers....


that’s a brand new page you have created by copying content from the bus=yes page. 

The long-standing definition as an access class is “
  • Sinnbild Kraftomnibus.svg bus=* (a heavy bus acting as a public service vehicle)”



and can be found on the access page. The bus key page used to redirect to it.

Cheers Martin 

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Re: Tourist bus stop

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg


sent from a phone

> On 12. Sep 2019, at 02:44, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree that "[motor]coach=" might have been clearer, but I'm ok with
> keeping "tourist_bus=*" since it may actually be easier to translate
> into most languages, and "coach=*" can also be ambiguous, since it
> used to refer to horse-drawn vehicles and passenger railway cars, so
> "motorcoach" would have been needed. Also, some definitions of
> "coach=" seem to be limited to larger inter-city style buses, with
> seatbelts, individual seats instead of benches, etc.
>
> See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:coach


I would use “motorbus” for the bus class, motorcar and motorcycle indicate there’s a system. The coach word seems more complicated and maybe only referring to some kind of buses. The term “Coach” should be avoided unless there are specific provisions for coaches (couldn’t find anything so far).

For access restrictions for public transport buses, “public_bus” would have been clearer than just “bus”, but I don’t think osm is going to change this...

For tourist_bus there might be a realistic (?) possibility to rename it to motorbus.  

Cheers Martin


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Re: Tourist bus stop

Jo-2
What about long_distance_bus, if you don't like coach? motorbus doesn't really convey much information. All buses we are talking about have a motor. The only exception I can think of is this Italian pedibus, which isn't really a bus at all. (Accompanied children who take the same itinerary on a daily basis on their way to school).

When I saw the initial conversation in Italian, I thought the person asking was asking about coach buses that were transporting tourists on an on demand, or on group reservation basis. For such buses there are dedicated areas where they can load / unload people, but that's more like parking.

In fact, if we're talking about Flixbus, Eurolines, Greyhound, etc. I think highway=bus_stop is just fine. Add a tag for operator or network and it's obvious and clear those are not bus stops for the local bus lines.

Polyglot

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 11:47 PM Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:


sent from a phone

> On 12. Sep 2019, at 02:44, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree that "[motor]coach=" might have been clearer, but I'm ok with
> keeping "tourist_bus=*" since it may actually be easier to translate
> into most languages, and "coach=*" can also be ambiguous, since it
> used to refer to horse-drawn vehicles and passenger railway cars, so
> "motorcoach" would have been needed. Also, some definitions of
> "coach=" seem to be limited to larger inter-city style buses, with
> seatbelts, individual seats instead of benches, etc.
>
> See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:coach


I would use “motorbus” for the bus class, motorcar and motorcycle indicate there’s a system. The coach word seems more complicated and maybe only referring to some kind of buses. The term “Coach” should be avoided unless there are specific provisions for coaches (couldn’t find anything so far).

For access restrictions for public transport buses, “public_bus” would have been clearer than just “bus”, but I don’t think osm is going to change this...

For tourist_bus there might be a realistic (?) possibility to rename it to motorbus. 

Cheers Martin


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Re: Tourist bus stop

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> On 16. Sep 2019, at 08:07, Jo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What about long_distance_bus, if you don't like coach? motorbus doesn't really convey much information. All buses we are talking about have a motor.


Sorry, it may not have been clear, “motorbus” would be used as a generic term for the bus class as required for access restrictions, e.g. this sign:


it wasn’t specifically for the tourist bus stop.

The difference between the boarding stop for non-public buses and a parking for such buses is the time you can stay, on the bus stop you may not park the vehicle.


Cheers Martin
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Re: Tourist bus stop

Paul Allen
In reply to this post by Jo-2
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 07:13, Jo <[hidden email]> wrote:
What about long_distance_bus, if you don't like coach? motorbus doesn't really convey much information. All buses we are talking about have a motor.

Indeed.  Also, it's not a term I've encountered very often (if at all) in British English.
 
When I saw the initial conversation in Italian, I thought the person asking was asking about coach buses that were transporting tourists on an on demand, or on group reservation basis. For such buses there are dedicated areas where they can load / unload people, but that's more like parking.

Having had some time to think about it, and seeing the increasingly-diverging opinions here,
it's time to give my current thinking on this.

For me (an Englishman), a coach, in the context of buses, means a comfortable, long-distance
bus with the capability of transporting luggage.  Coaches are used on long-distance (several
hours of travel time) routes and for transporting people on touring holidays ("It's Tuesday, so this
must be Rome.")  This accords with Wiktionary's definition 3 (British English) of a coach:

For me, a tourist bus is (usually) an open-topped, double-decker bus carrying tourists
around a single town/city (and possibly a few nearby locations).  How they get to that
town/city is (usually) a different mode of transport.  There is somebody (either the
driver or a guide) giving a running commentary.

Obviously, there are overlaps in that coaches taking people on holiday or to events
are carrying tourists.  A coach driver may make an occasional announcement, and
there may even be a guide making announcements.  But coaches are about
long-distance travel (usually with luggage) whilst tourist buses cover short distances
and have no special provision for stowing luggage.  Tourist buses are ordinary (not very
comfortable) buses, usually with the top cut off.  Coaches are comfortable.  Holiday coaches
usually require you to book a ticket in advance; long-distance coaches permit (and sometimes
require) reservations and often require you to buy a ticket from an office rather than on the bus.
Tourist buses can sometimes be booked in advance but may permit you to simply board at
one of their stops.

In fact, if we're talking about Flixbus, Eurolines, Greyhound, etc. I think highway=bus_stop is just fine. Add a tag for operator or network and it's obvious and clear those are not bus stops for the local bus lines.

Those would be long-distance coaches running to a timetable, not coaches carrying
people on holiday to a destination or event.  For OSM purposes it's probably OK to treat
them as buses, even though they may have only two stops (the two termini).

are not buses in the above sense.  Booking is required.  Luggage is carried.  The
pick-up point is fixed, the drop-off point(s) varies depending on the specific
destination.  The pick-up point may or may not be an ordinary bus stop, but usually
isn't for most operators.  These day tours https://www.richardsbros.co.uk/day-tours/
fall into the same broad category as the coach holidays.

These are tourist buses https://edinburghtour.com/

--
Paul


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