Trailhead tagging

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Re: Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson
Well, trailheads as defined in this basic proposition have been mapped, and continue to be mapped all over the world. I guess there must be people who think it useful, and others who think not. 

Very OSM. 

Op vr 11 jan. 2019 om 18:16 schreef Andy Townsend <[hidden email]>:
On 11/01/2019 17:05, Peter Elderson wrote:
>  The Trans-Pennine Trail trailhead is a trailhead

No - it really isn't.  That was my entire point.  I'm willing to bet a
small round of beer in the pub up the road that almost no-one walking
past that info board will say "oh look - that's a trailhead for the TPT".

The problem with trying to shoe-horn other features into a particular
definition is that it dilutes the value of the features with that tag
that have already been mapped - in this case trailheads where "everyone"
will agree that they are trailheads.

That's not to say that the features that you're trying to record aren't
very important - I'm sure that they are, and it would make total sense
for a Dutch-focused transport, cycling or wanderroute-oriented map to
show them.

Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: Trailhead tagging

Tobias Wrede
In reply to this post by Kevin Kenny-3
Am 11.01.2019 um 15:45 schrieb Kevin Kenny:
>
> Despite your repeated denials, you're continuing to try to invent a
> set of definitions that, at least in NL, will encompass all TOPs and
> nothing else. If that's your aim, then invent a tag for TOP and use it,

That's a good summary I can second. Peter, there are probably a lot of
TOPs that are trailheads or where a trailhead is part of them. But there
are other TOPs that are not trailheads in the spirit of the original
proposal (to my understanding) nor the consensus that has been come up
in this discussion. I pointed out a couple of the latter earlier (I did
not search for those explicitly they were the first ones that I randomly
selected from an overpass turbo query).

I also still stand by my earlier suggestion: Mark the trailheads as such
(preferably as a point on a path/track/etc.) with hw=trailhead. Mark the
TOPs with a separate node or in some cases better even area and a new
key/value pair designating it as such. Several suggestions have been
made in this thread (tourism=, leisure=, designation=, ...). If you
must, use the same node for hw=trailhead and whatever=TOPorWhatNot but I
would advise against that.



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Re: Trailhead tagging

Tobias Wrede
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend
Am 11.01.2019 um 18:15 schrieb Andy Townsend:
> On 11/01/2019 17:05, Peter Elderson wrote:
>>  The Trans-Pennine Trail trailhead is a trailhead
>
> No - it really isn't.  That was my entire point.  I'm willing to bet a
> small round of beer in the pub up the road that almost no-one walking
> past that info board will say "oh look - that's a trailhead for the TPT".
>
I wouldn't agree here. Even if your pub patrons wouldn't call it a
trailhead it is one. The TPT purposely makes  a detour to the South to
meet Chesterfield station.
(https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=1u1vrqls0lVh49X3ZpT7Bh2728Q8&ll=53.244018099803014%2C-1.4135915937870323&z=15 
Isn't the trail mapped in OSM?) It might not have a big signpost "here
be trails" but it meets the consensus definition of a trailhead, namely
giving easy access to a trail. On top it even has an information board,
parking, rail station, toilets in the station, pub up the road, ... It's
quite a posh trailhead actually ( :-) to use some other participant's
words here).

The position of the new board you mapped is not the trailhead, though.
I'm with you that far.

> The problem with trying to shoe-horn other features into a particular
> definition is that it dilutes the value of the features with that tag
> that have already been mapped - in this case trailheads where
> "everyone" will agree that they are trailheads.
>
+1

> That's not to say that the features that you're trying to record
> aren't very important - I'm sure that they are, and it would make
> total sense for a Dutch-focused transport, cycling or
> wanderroute-oriented map to show them.
Absolutely.

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Re: Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson
In reply to this post by Tobias Wrede
What Kevin said was not my aim, I have said that before. I agreed with the general description Kenny came up with. Those places can be (and have been) tagged highway=trailhead, whether these are also TOPs or not, that is the idea.

You can disagree whether particular places now marked as trailheads match this description, but the issue here is: tagging the places that do match it. If there is consensus, then we (mappers) can evaluate  individual nodes.

I agree some of the TOPs will probably not qualify, but most of them will. Not because they are TOPs, but because they are places visibly designed to start hiking or riding on one or more routes.

Let’s talk additional and localised tagging after this basic step. Did I hear you menton “consensus”?

Mvg Peter Elderson

> Op 14 jan. 2019 om 17:24 heeft Tobias Wrede <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
>> Am 11.01.2019 um 15:45 schrieb Kevin Kenny:
>>
>> Despite your repeated denials, you're continuing to try to invent a set of definitions that, at least in NL, will encompass all TOPs and nothing else. If that's your aim, then invent a tag for TOP and use it,
>
> That's a good summary I can second. Peter, there are probably a lot of TOPs that are trailheads or where a trailhead is part of them. But there are other TOPs that are not trailheads in the spirit of the original proposal (to my understanding) nor the consensus that has been come up in this discussion. I pointed out a couple of the latter earlier (I did not search for those explicitly they were the first ones that I randomly selected from an overpass turbo query).
>
> I also still stand by my earlier suggestion: Mark the trailheads as such (preferably as a point on a path/track/etc.) with hw=trailhead. Mark the TOPs with a separate node or in some cases better even area and a new key/value pair designating it as such. Several suggestions have been made in this thread (tourism=, leisure=, designation=, ...). If you must, use the same node for hw=trailhead and whatever=TOPorWhatNot but I would advise against that.
>
>
>
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Re: Trailhead tagging

Kevin Kenny-3
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 12:16 PM Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
> No - it really isn't.  That was my entire point.  I'm willing to bet a
> small round of beer in the pub up the road that almost no-one walking
> past that info board will say "oh look - that's a trailhead for the TPT".

On the other hand, I'll bet you a beer in Lake Placid that at least
half the people in the bar at the Adirondack Hotel in Long Lake
village would recognize that this sign
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/14920080943/ - which simply stands
on the roadside at a path going into the woods, with no other
facilities right there - marks a trailhead for the Northville-Placid
Trail. (When I say 'no other facilities right there,' what I mean is
that there's a town about 4-5 km down the highway, and it's an easy
walk on the shoulder(verge) or an equally easy hitch.)

It's an important trailhead. Shattuck Clearing on the sign is the site
of a FORMER ranger station that burnt in the 1960's. Since its road
hasn't been maintained since then, it's grown to trees and entirely
impassable to anything on wheels, so while it serves as a landmark,
it's not an opportunity to get help or leave the trail. If you hike in
at that trailhead, except for a handful of spots on a lake where it
would be possible to land a canoe or water-taxi a float plane, there's
no other way out closer than Lake Placid. It's 58.6 km to the next
highway, about 63 km if you're walking to the town - or to turn around
back the way you came. "The last chance to leave the trail for the
next two or three days" is kind of important to map!

I'm therefore going to stick with 'designated or customary place to
begin or end a trip on a trail.'

As long as Peter is agreed that not all trailheads are anything
resembling TOP's and not all TOP's are trailheads, I think we're in
rough agreement. Where I get a bit prickly is at sweeping assertions
like "a trailhead must be something more than where a path crosses a
road."  When you're on a trail where it's 60 km between roads (the NPT
crosses four paved roads in 222 km), you're damned right that anywhere
that the trail crosses a road is a trailhead!

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Re: Trailhead tagging

Graeme Fitzpatrick
What's the key dangling there for, Kev?

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 08:05, Kevin Kenny <[hidden email]> wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/14920080943/

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Re: Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson
In reply to this post by Kevin Kenny-3
I agree. I never meant to exclude any significant path to a trail, even if it’s ‘ just’ a path, it can of course be significant because it’s the only access point in miles, even if it has no official name, and that’s precisely why I keep saying it’s up to the mappers.

Mvg Peter Elderson

> Op 14 jan. 2019 om 23:04 heeft Kevin Kenny <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 12:16 PM Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> No - it really isn't.  That was my entire point.  I'm willing to bet a
>> small round of beer in the pub up the road that almost no-one walking
>> past that info board will say "oh look - that's a trailhead for the TPT".
>
> On the other hand, I'll bet you a beer in Lake Placid that at least
> half the people in the bar at the Adirondack Hotel in Long Lake
> village would recognize that this sign
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/14920080943/ - which simply stands
> on the roadside at a path going into the woods, with no other
> facilities right there - marks a trailhead for the Northville-Placid
> Trail. (When I say 'no other facilities right there,' what I mean is
> that there's a town about 4-5 km down the highway, and it's an easy
> walk on the shoulder(verge) or an equally easy hitch.)
>
> It's an important trailhead. Shattuck Clearing on the sign is the site
> of a FORMER ranger station that burnt in the 1960's. Since its road
> hasn't been maintained since then, it's grown to trees and entirely
> impassable to anything on wheels, so while it serves as a landmark,
> it's not an opportunity to get help or leave the trail. If you hike in
> at that trailhead, except for a handful of spots on a lake where it
> would be possible to land a canoe or water-taxi a float plane, there's
> no other way out closer than Lake Placid. It's 58.6 km to the next
> highway, about 63 km if you're walking to the town - or to turn around
> back the way you came. "The last chance to leave the trail for the
> next two or three days" is kind of important to map!
>
> I'm therefore going to stick with 'designated or customary place to
> begin or end a trip on a trail.'
>
> As long as Peter is agreed that not all trailheads are anything
> resembling TOP's and not all TOP's are trailheads, I think we're in
> rough agreement. Where I get a bit prickly is at sweeping assertions
> like "a trailhead must be something more than where a path crosses a
> road."  When you're on a trail where it's 60 km between roads (the NPT
> crosses four paved roads in 222 km), you're damned right that anywhere
> that the trail crosses a road is a trailhead!
>
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Re: Trailhead tagging

Kevin Kenny-3
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 5:50 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> What's the key dangling there for, Kev?

Absolutely no idea! I left it as I found it.

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Re: Trailhead tagging

Tod Fitch

> On Jan 14, 2019, at 2:51 PM, Kevin Kenny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 5:50 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> What's the key dangling there for, Kev?
>
> Absolutely no idea! I left it as I found it.
>

Guess: Someone found it on the trail and figured it would be easier for the person missing it to find it hanging from the sign than some place along miles of trail.
Source: I’ve seen that done elsewhere.


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Re: Trailhead tagging

Graeme Fitzpatrick

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:04, Tod Fitch <[hidden email]> wrote:

Guess: Someone found it on the trail and figured it would be easier for the person missing it to find it hanging from the sign than some place along miles of trail.

Bit of a problem when you've got to walk back the 65 klm looking for it!

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Trailhead tagging

AlaskaDave
Kevin said:
I'm therefore going to stick with 'designated or customary place to
begin or end a trip on a trail.'

Me too. I've mapped many such trailheads in Alaska and almost everybody I know would recognize the term trailhead as meaning a point of access to a path or trail. It's fine to add other details, like parking, toilets, registration facilities, etc. separately. I haven't followed this thread carefully, so can't speak to the TOP situation fully but I do know a trailhead when I see it on a map or otherwise.

Dave

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 6:16 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:04, Tod Fitch <[hidden email]> wrote:

Guess: Someone found it on the trail and figured it would be easier for the person missing it to find it hanging from the sign than some place along miles of trail.

Bit of a problem when you've got to walk back the 65 klm looking for it!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: Trailhead tagging

Kevin Kenny-3
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 6:16 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:04, Tod Fitch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Guess: Someone found it on the trail and figured it would be easier for the person missing it to find it hanging from the sign than some place along miles of trail.
> Bit of a problem when you've got to walk back the 65 klm looking for it!

Yeah, but usually when someone finds stuff on the trail and does
something like that, they'll also leave notes in the registers, and I
didn't see any.

The other thing that people sometimes do is odd car shuttles - it's
not unheard of for people with multiple cars available to have
complicated shuttles getting them to trailheads. This key could have
been from an arrangement like: hiker leaves car with shuttler in
Northville.  Shuttler and partner drive in two cars to Lake Placid,
park the hiker's car there. Shuttler and partner ride in the
shuttler's car to Long Lake, leave the key for the hiker to find, and
then return home. Hiker gets his key when he passes Long Lake and his
car is waiting in Lake Placid. (The key is much less useful to a thief
when it's 65 km from the car!) Although for those arrangements,
they'll usually choose a loss obvious cache for the key, or leave it
in trust with a shopkeeper or postmaster for the hiker to claim. I've
even seen parties going in opposite directions arrange to exchange
their keys at the midpoint, and then each picks up the other's car at
the end and drives to a common meeting point. Long-distance hikers are
a creative lot.

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Re: Trailhead tagging

Graeme Fitzpatrick

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:51, Kevin Kenny <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've even seen parties going in opposite directions arrange to exchange
their keys at the midpoint, and then each picks up the other's car at
the end and drives to a common meeting point. Long-distance hikers are
a creative lot.

Yep, seen that one around here, where there's a very popular 25k walk between two lodges, but which are ~80k drive apart! 

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson
In reply to this post by AlaskaDave
I think it fits the outcome of this discussion. If not, feel free to comment. 

I don't want to change the earlier proposal, it is a step further than my concept tagging page which just documents existing practice. 


Vr gr Peter Elderson


Op di 15 jan. 2019 om 00:41 schreef Dave Swarthout <[hidden email]>:
Kevin said:
I'm therefore going to stick with 'designated or customary place to
begin or end a trip on a trail.'

Me too. I've mapped many such trailheads in Alaska and almost everybody I know would recognize the term trailhead as meaning a point of access to a path or trail. It's fine to add other details, like parking, toilets, registration facilities, etc. separately. I haven't followed this thread carefully, so can't speak to the TOP situation fully but I do know a trailhead when I see it on a map or otherwise.

Dave

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 6:16 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:04, Tod Fitch <[hidden email]> wrote:

Guess: Someone found it on the trail and figured it would be easier for the person missing it to find it hanging from the sign than some place along miles of trail.

Bit of a problem when you've got to walk back the 65 klm looking for it!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: Trailhead tagging

AlaskaDave
Your proposal looks good. I would vote "yes" on it.

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 4:28 PM Peter Elderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think it fits the outcome of this discussion. If not, feel free to comment. 

I don't want to change the earlier proposal, it is a step further than my concept tagging page which just documents existing practice. 


Vr gr Peter Elderson


Op di 15 jan. 2019 om 00:41 schreef Dave Swarthout <[hidden email]>:
Kevin said:
I'm therefore going to stick with 'designated or customary place to
begin or end a trip on a trail.'

Me too. I've mapped many such trailheads in Alaska and almost everybody I know would recognize the term trailhead as meaning a point of access to a path or trail. It's fine to add other details, like parking, toilets, registration facilities, etc. separately. I haven't followed this thread carefully, so can't speak to the TOP situation fully but I do know a trailhead when I see it on a map or otherwise.

Dave

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 6:16 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:04, Tod Fitch <[hidden email]> wrote:

Guess: Someone found it on the trail and figured it would be easier for the person missing it to find it hanging from the sign than some place along miles of trail.

Bit of a problem when you've got to walk back the 65 klm looking for it!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: Trailhead tagging

EthnicFood IsGreat
In reply to this post by Peter Elderson

> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:04:23 +0700
> From: Dave Swarthout <[hidden email]>
> To: Peter Elderson <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Trailhead tagging
>
>
> Your proposal looks good. I would vote "yes" on it.
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 4:28 PM Peter Elderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I made a concept wiki page:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:trailhead
>> I think it fits the outcome of this discussion. If not, feel free to
>> comment.
>>
>> I don't want to change the earlier proposal, it is a step further than my
>> concept tagging page which just documents existing practice.
>>
>>
>> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>>
>>
>> Op di 15 jan. 2019 om 00:41 schreef Dave Swarthout <
>> [hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Kevin said:
>>> I'm therefore going to stick with 'designated or customary place to
>>> begin or end a trip on a trail.'
>>>
>>> Me too. I've mapped many such trailheads in Alaska and almost everybody I
>>> know would recognize the term trailhead as meaning a point of access to a
>>> path or trail. It's fine to add other details, like parking, toilets,
>>> registration facilities, etc. separately. I haven't followed this thread
>>> carefully, so can't speak to the TOP situation fully but I do know a
>>> trailhead when I see it on a map or otherwise.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 6:16 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:04, Tod Fitch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Guess: Someone found it on the trail and figured it would be easier for
>>>>> the person missing it to find it hanging from the sign than some place
>>>>> along miles of trail.
>>>>>
>>>> Bit of a problem when you've got to walk back the 65 klm looking for it!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Graeme
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tagging mailing list
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Swarthout
>>> Homer, Alaska
>>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com


A lot of the trailheads I've mapped contain none of the identifiers you
mentioned in the first paragraph (shelter, pole, special design, flag,
etc.), all they have is a designated parking lot for your vehicle.  I
would like your wiki page better if you included a designated parking
area in the list of possible identifiers.

Mark


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Re: Trailhead tagging

Andy Townsend

On 1/16/19 5:56 PM, EthnicFood IsGreat wrote:
> A lot of the trailheads I've mapped contain none of the identifiers
> you mentioned in the first paragraph (shelter, pole, special design,
> flag, etc.), all they have is a designated parking lot for your
> vehicle.  I would like your wiki page better if you included a
> designated parking area in the list of possible identifiers.
>
>
I'd agree with that.

Currently the wiki page is describing something that doesn't really
correspond to the word "trailhead" in English.  There are plenty of
other examples of that sort of thing in OSM ("city" is an obvious one);
but I'd suggest trying to avoid creating more to avoid future confusion.

To be clear - as I've said before, and based on my experience of them,
I'm sure that the sites in NL that are driving this are _really
important_ and _really worth mapping_ but I don't think that they are
trailheads, in a similar way to Chesterfield's TPT notice board outside
the station isn't (as also mentioned previously).

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: Trailhead tagging

Jmapb
In reply to this post by EthnicFood IsGreat
On 1/16/2019 12:56 PM, EthnicFood IsGreat wrote:

>
>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 4:28 PM Peter Elderson <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I made a concept wiki page:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:trailhead
>>> I think it fits the outcome of this discussion. If not, feel free to
>>> comment.
>>>
>
> A lot of the trailheads I've mapped contain none of the identifiers
> you mentioned in the first paragraph (shelter, pole, special design,
> flag, etc.), all they have is a designated parking lot for your
> vehicle.  I would like your wiki page better if you included a
> designated parking area in the list of possible identifiers.
>
> Mark

I agree that a parking area belongs in that list. I also wonder about
the text that specifies that the highway=trailhead nodes should be
positioned "off the road." I think the wording here could be clearer.
The word "road" isn't mentioned anywhere else on the page, so I'm not
sure if this refers to the trail (or the route to the trail) or if it
implies a nearby vehicular road. I would guess the latter, and if so, is
this a required part of the definition? Offhand I can conceive of a
trailhead inside a park with no vehicular road nearby. Here's an example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2896479066

Jason


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Re: Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson
In reply to this post by Andy Townsend
I have added parking space, not as a requirement but as something that will usually be available. The only requirement is that the place is visibly designated or customary to hop on a trail. 

The description does not mention, favour nor exclude any local variants, I think. Most of the photos show trailheads explicitly named Trailhead, so I assumed that these are called trailheads in at least one flavour of the English language. None of those are Dutch. I plan to add one Dutch example, as soon as I find out how to add a photo to the gallery.

Vr gr Peter Elderson


Op wo 16 jan. 2019 om 19:06 schreef Andy Townsend <[hidden email]>:

On 1/16/19 5:56 PM, EthnicFood IsGreat wrote:
> A lot of the trailheads I've mapped contain none of the identifiers
> you mentioned in the first paragraph (shelter, pole, special design,
> flag, etc.), all they have is a designated parking lot for your
> vehicle.  I would like your wiki page better if you included a
> designated parking area in the list of possible identifiers.
>
>
I'd agree with that.

Currently the wiki page is describing something that doesn't really
correspond to the word "trailhead" in English.  There are plenty of
other examples of that sort of thing in OSM ("city" is an obvious one);
but I'd suggest trying to avoid creating more to avoid future confusion.

To be clear - as I've said before, and based on my experience of them,
I'm sure that the sites in NL that are driving this are _really
important_ and _really worth mapping_ but I don't think that they are
trailheads, in a similar way to Chesterfield's TPT notice board outside
the station isn't (as also mentioned previously).

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson
In reply to this post by Jmapb
I copied the page from the highway=bus_stop page, because the thing resembles a bus stop. 

This off the road bit can go. The idea, as discussed earlier, is not to include the node in the route or routes. The node allows people to hop on one or more routes, but is not part of these routes. 

Local mappers / communities can discuss where to put the node. For Nederland, current tagging is to put the node exactly where the landmark  pole or stele is. Mappers / communities may decide to use the location of an infoboard or banner, or a parking place or rest facility nearby the trail.

Worldwide at this moment, I see no basis for recommended further tagging, just the one basic node. 

Vr gr Peter Elderson


Op wo 16 jan. 2019 om 20:25 schreef Jmapb <[hidden email]>:
On 1/16/2019 12:56 PM, EthnicFood IsGreat wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 4:28 PM Peter Elderson <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I made a concept wiki page:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:trailhead
>>> I think it fits the outcome of this discussion. If not, feel free to
>>> comment.
>>>
>
> A lot of the trailheads I've mapped contain none of the identifiers
> you mentioned in the first paragraph (shelter, pole, special design,
> flag, etc.), all they have is a designated parking lot for your
> vehicle.  I would like your wiki page better if you included a
> designated parking area in the list of possible identifiers.
>
> Mark

I agree that a parking area belongs in that list. I also wonder about
the text that specifies that the highway=trailhead nodes should be
positioned "off the road." I think the wording here could be clearer.
The word "road" isn't mentioned anywhere else on the page, so I'm not
sure if this refers to the trail (or the route to the trail) or if it
implies a nearby vehicular road. I would guess the latter, and if so, is
this a required part of the definition? Offhand I can conceive of a
trailhead inside a park with no vehicular road nearby. Here's an example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2896479066

Jason


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