UDIG3D alpha version release!!

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Re: UDIG3D alpha version release!!

Jody Garnett-2

I would advise talking to FSF europe (or similar) as speculation on license compatibilities (or even searching the web - which amounts to the same thing) is a great way to get worked up and upset.  Do keep in mind when discussing these matters that no matter what your opinion you will be offending/scaring someone who is depending on the opposite viewpoint in order to protect their livelihood :-)

You will find that the OSGeo foundation has been very helpful in reviewing these sorts of matters for GeoTools. You may also in this case talk to Refractions Research about a commercial license for uDig (one of the reasons we ask them to hold copyright even though most of us do not work there).

Cheers,s
Jody

On 16/10/2009, at 1:14 AM, Riccardo Rigon wrote:

Then the whole gvSIG project is in trouble. GPLv2 upon EPL. Isn't it ?

riccardo


On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Craig Taverner wrote:

Hi all,

There is actually a more serious problem, and that is that uDIG is an eclipse application, and includes a large number of org.eclipse.* plugins, which are all EPL licensed. EPL is incompatible with GPL, so you cannot release the complete product as GPL. This also means you cannot use a GPL library in the product, because that forces you to release as GPL, which you cannot. Catch-22.

So there are two solutions:
  • Do not use any GPL libraries, only LGPL libraries, in which case you have choice of the license to release your product under, LGPL or EPL, or other, but not GPL.
  • Release the product without the GPL component, making it an optional module the end users can download and install. The license incompatibility between GPL and EPL apparently only affects your ability to distribute the combination.
This license spat between the eclipse foundation and the FSF has hurt us. We needed to negotiate a *commercial* license from the vendor of our GPL component in order to distribute our product. This is not a good thing.

But in your case, you could still provide your GPL component as an optional module to uDIG, as long as you did not actually distribute it combined with any EPL components. That is my understanding.

Regards, Craig

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:47 PM, andrea antonello <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...]
> Yes I thought that there wasn't problem, but a comment on the blog
> points to some conflicts on the license
> (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility).

Can you point me to the comment?
From the comments I see that you can have a GPL project and use mix it
with LGPL, as long as you rerelease it under GPL:
"LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense the code under GPLv3. In
these cases, you can combine the code if you convert the LGPLed code
to GPLv3."

> Of course I know our plugin must be GPL, but if anyone uses uDIG +
> 3DPlugin then it cannot be LGPL.. only GPL (I think), so no closed
> developments could be done with 3D plugin. So the really question here
> if is there any conclict between the two licenses. From gvSIG they
> told us that is a problem.

Should not be any conflict. We can't release udig with the plugin
under LGPL, that would be a problem.
But you can make your own release of udig that you define to be GPL,
since, as the comment states: LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense
the code under GPLv3.
And then you are good. You are doing it right now. Just define in the
license of your 3d release that the whole thing is gpl.
I have the same issues with dxf and dwg code from jump and gvsig. I
willl have to release those plugins as gpl. No real problem.

Don't give up that good work!
Ciao
Andrea





>> Jody
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Jody et all,
>>>
>>> We regret to inform all of you that due to a license incompatibility
>>> we cannot continue the development of the UDIG3D extension and we have
>>> retired the previously uploaded alpha releases and we have closed down
>>> the subversion repository
>>>
>>> OSGVirtualPlanets(osgVP) is a GPLv2 framework developed in the AI2 and
>>> supported by gvSIG, so the GPL license is a must here.
>>>
>>> We really apologize for the trouble we have caused to everyone,
>>> Rafa.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Mauricio Pazos <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday 08 October 2009 08:03:19 am Rafa Gaitan wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jody,
>>>>>
>>>>> >> It is an independent plugin, we didn't make changes to the core of
>>>>> >> udig, but we had lots of problems because some parts where not fully
>>>>> >> extendable, so we replicate some code in there.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > That is where we need your conversation and input on the udig-devel
>>>>> > list here :-) I would really recommend including time to bust out new
>>>>> > extension points and so on in your future plans.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I need to recall and make a review to the Eline code and I will
>>>>> post here again. If I remember Eline commented in the mail-list some
>>>>> of the problems she had.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetz,
>>>>> Rafa.
>>>> He Rafa: my congratulations. If your team identify new extension points for
>>>> uDig framework it will be an important step.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>> --
>>>> Mauricio Pazos
>>>> www.axios.es
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rafael Gaitán Linares
>>> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
>>> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>>> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>>> http://udig.refractions.net
>>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rafael Gaitán Linares
> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel

_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel

________________________________________________________________        
Universita` di Trento         Dipartimento di Ingegneria Civile  e  Ambientale/CUDAM
Via Mesiano, 77, 38050  Trento      (ITALIA)                        
E-mail[hidden email]  
Ph: +390461882614-10    Fax:+390461882672
Publications according to ISI: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-5395-2008
JGrass (Open Source GIS): http://www.jgrass.org/
GEOtop (Open Source distributed hydrological model):  http://www.geotop.org/
_______________________________________________________________                                                      




_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel


_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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Re: UDIG3D alpha version release!!

Jody Garnett-2
In reply to this post by Riccardo Rigon
I just noticed my reply was not clear; gvSIG has entered the OSGeo incubation process and I trust any questions will be resolved. The foundation has been great and was able to help GeoTools out a lot during the incubation process.

Jody

On 16/10/2009, at 1:14 AM, Riccardo Rigon wrote:

Then the whole gvSIG project is in trouble. GPLv2 upon EPL. Isn't it ?

riccardo


On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Craig Taverner wrote:

Hi all,

There is actually a more serious problem, and that is that uDIG is an eclipse application, and includes a large number of org.eclipse.* plugins, which are all EPL licensed. EPL is incompatible with GPL, so you cannot release the complete product as GPL. This also means you cannot use a GPL library in the product, because that forces you to release as GPL, which you cannot. Catch-22.

So there are two solutions:
  • Do not use any GPL libraries, only LGPL libraries, in which case you have choice of the license to release your product under, LGPL or EPL, or other, but not GPL.
  • Release the product without the GPL component, making it an optional module the end users can download and install. The license incompatibility between GPL and EPL apparently only affects your ability to distribute the combination.
This license spat between the eclipse foundation and the FSF has hurt us. We needed to negotiate a *commercial* license from the vendor of our GPL component in order to distribute our product. This is not a good thing.

But in your case, you could still provide your GPL component as an optional module to uDIG, as long as you did not actually distribute it combined with any EPL components. That is my understanding.

Regards, Craig

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:47 PM, andrea antonello <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...]
> Yes I thought that there wasn't problem, but a comment on the blog
> points to some conflicts on the license
> (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility).

Can you point me to the comment?
From the comments I see that you can have a GPL project and use mix it
with LGPL, as long as you rerelease it under GPL:
"LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense the code under GPLv3. In
these cases, you can combine the code if you convert the LGPLed code
to GPLv3."

> Of course I know our plugin must be GPL, but if anyone uses uDIG +
> 3DPlugin then it cannot be LGPL.. only GPL (I think), so no closed
> developments could be done with 3D plugin. So the really question here
> if is there any conclict between the two licenses. From gvSIG they
> told us that is a problem.

Should not be any conflict. We can't release udig with the plugin
under LGPL, that would be a problem.
But you can make your own release of udig that you define to be GPL,
since, as the comment states: LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense
the code under GPLv3.
And then you are good. You are doing it right now. Just define in the
license of your 3d release that the whole thing is gpl.
I have the same issues with dxf and dwg code from jump and gvsig. I
willl have to release those plugins as gpl. No real problem.

Don't give up that good work!
Ciao
Andrea





>> Jody
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Jody et all,
>>>
>>> We regret to inform all of you that due to a license incompatibility
>>> we cannot continue the development of the UDIG3D extension and we have
>>> retired the previously uploaded alpha releases and we have closed down
>>> the subversion repository
>>>
>>> OSGVirtualPlanets(osgVP) is a GPLv2 framework developed in the AI2 and
>>> supported by gvSIG, so the GPL license is a must here.
>>>
>>> We really apologize for the trouble we have caused to everyone,
>>> Rafa.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Mauricio Pazos <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday 08 October 2009 08:03:19 am Rafa Gaitan wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jody,
>>>>>
>>>>> >> It is an independent plugin, we didn't make changes to the core of
>>>>> >> udig, but we had lots of problems because some parts where not fully
>>>>> >> extendable, so we replicate some code in there.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > That is where we need your conversation and input on the udig-devel
>>>>> > list here :-) I would really recommend including time to bust out new
>>>>> > extension points and so on in your future plans.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I need to recall and make a review to the Eline code and I will
>>>>> post here again. If I remember Eline commented in the mail-list some
>>>>> of the problems she had.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetz,
>>>>> Rafa.
>>>> He Rafa: my congratulations. If your team identify new extension points for
>>>> uDig framework it will be an important step.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>> --
>>>> Mauricio Pazos
>>>> www.axios.es
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rafael Gaitán Linares
>>> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
>>> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>>> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>>> http://udig.refractions.net
>>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rafael Gaitán Linares
> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel

_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel

________________________________________________________________        
Universita` di Trento         Dipartimento di Ingegneria Civile  e  Ambientale/CUDAM
Via Mesiano, 77, 38050  Trento      (ITALIA)                        
E-mail[hidden email]  
Ph: +390461882614-10    Fax:+390461882672
Publications according to ISI: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-5395-2008
JGrass (Open Source GIS): http://www.jgrass.org/
GEOtop (Open Source distributed hydrological model):  http://www.geotop.org/
_______________________________________________________________                                                      




_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel


_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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|

Re: UDIG3D alpha version release!!

Craig Taverner-2
In reply to this post by Jody Garnett-2
But in your case, you could still provide your GPL component as an optional module to uDIG, as long as you did not actually distribute it combined with any EPL components. That is my understanding.

So make use of an update site; or offer two downloads?

I believe satisfying the FSF requires that they see that the component without the GPL is distributed independently of the GPL component. So by their definition the combination is not seen as a 'derivative product' of the GPL part. We were advised to get our customers to download the GPL part directly from the original vendor, not from us.

So I wonder how they would feel about an update site? Would they object to an application that cound be updated by adding in a GPL module? Hard to say. Personally I think that an update site is simply a mechanism for obtaining the part, but the decision to include it is still the customers', not the product vendors', which I believe is the key point.



_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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Re: UDIG3D alpha version release!!

Rafa Gaitan
In reply to this post by Jody Garnett-2
Wow!

This thread is getting big!.

Ok, So If I understood correctly if we deploy our GPL plugin
independently from uDIG, and users download it, then is possible to
use it without licensce conflict, isn't it?

By now.. and until we get confirmation I prefer to wait. I hope all of
you understand our position and I'm really sorry for the noise!

Rafa.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I just noticed my reply was not clear; gvSIG has entered the OSGeo
> incubation process and I trust any questions will be resolved. The
> foundation has been great and was able to help GeoTools out a lot during the
> incubation process.
> Jody
> On 16/10/2009, at 1:14 AM, Riccardo Rigon wrote:
>
> Then the whole gvSIG project is in trouble. GPLv2 upon EPL. Isn't it ?
> riccardo
>
> On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Craig Taverner wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is actually a more serious problem, and that is that uDIG is an
> eclipse application, and includes a large number of org.eclipse.* plugins,
> which are all EPL licensed. EPL is incompatible with GPL, so you cannot
> release the complete product as GPL. This also means you cannot use a GPL
> library in the product, because that forces you to release as GPL, which you
> cannot. Catch-22.
>
> So there are two solutions:
>
> Do not use any GPL libraries, only LGPL libraries, in which case you have
> choice of the license to release your product under, LGPL or EPL, or other,
> but not GPL.
> Release the product without the GPL component, making it an optional module
> the end users can download and install. The license incompatibility between
> GPL and EPL apparently only affects your ability to distribute the
> combination.
>
> This license spat between the eclipse foundation and the FSF has hurt us. We
> needed to negotiate a *commercial* license from the vendor of our GPL
> component in order to distribute our product. This is not a good thing.
>
> But in your case, you could still provide your GPL component as an optional
> module to uDIG, as long as you did not actually distribute it combined with
> any EPL components. That is my understanding.
>
> Regards, Craig
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:47 PM, andrea antonello
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> > Yes I thought that there wasn't problem, but a comment on the blog
>> > points to some conflicts on the license
>> > (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility).
>>
>> Can you point me to the comment?
>> From the comments I see that you can have a GPL project and use mix it
>> with LGPL, as long as you rerelease it under GPL:
>> "LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense the code under GPLv3. In
>> these cases, you can combine the code if you convert the LGPLed code
>> to GPLv3."
>>
>> > Of course I know our plugin must be GPL, but if anyone uses uDIG +
>> > 3DPlugin then it cannot be LGPL.. only GPL (I think), so no closed
>> > developments could be done with 3D plugin. So the really question here
>> > if is there any conclict between the two licenses. From gvSIG they
>> > told us that is a problem.
>>
>> Should not be any conflict. We can't release udig with the plugin
>> under LGPL, that would be a problem.
>> But you can make your own release of udig that you define to be GPL,
>> since, as the comment states: LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense
>> the code under GPLv3.
>> And then you are good. You are doing it right now. Just define in the
>> license of your 3d release that the whole thing is gpl.
>> I have the same issues with dxf and dwg code from jump and gvsig. I
>> willl have to release those plugins as gpl. No real problem.
>>
>> Don't give up that good work!
>> Ciao
>> Andrea
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Jody
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Hi Jody et all,
>> >>>
>> >>> We regret to inform all of you that due to a license incompatibility
>> >>> we cannot continue the development of the UDIG3D extension and we have
>> >>> retired the previously uploaded alpha releases and we have closed down
>> >>> the subversion repository
>> >>>
>> >>> OSGVirtualPlanets(osgVP) is a GPLv2 framework developed in the AI2 and
>> >>> supported by gvSIG, so the GPL license is a must here.
>> >>>
>> >>> We really apologize for the trouble we have caused to everyone,
>> >>> Rafa.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Mauricio Pazos
>> >>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>> On Thursday 08 October 2009 08:03:19 am Rafa Gaitan wrote:
>> >>>>> Hi Jody,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> >> It is an independent plugin, we didn't make changes to the core
>> >>>>> >> of
>> >>>>> >> udig, but we had lots of problems because some parts where not
>> >>>>> >> fully
>> >>>>> >> extendable, so we replicate some code in there.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > That is where we need your conversation and input on the
>> >>>>> > udig-devel
>> >>>>> > list here :-) I would really recommend including time to bust out
>> >>>>> > new
>> >>>>> > extension points and so on in your future plans.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yes, I need to recall and make a review to the Eline code and I will
>> >>>>> post here again. If I remember Eline commented in the mail-list some
>> >>>>> of the problems she had.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Greetz,
>> >>>>> Rafa.
>> >>>> He Rafa: my congratulations. If your team identify new extension
>> >>>> points for
>> >>>> uDig framework it will be an important step.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> cheers
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Mauricio Pazos
>> >>>> www.axios.es
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Rafael Gaitán Linares
>> >>> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial
>> >>>  http://www.ai2.upv.es
>> >>> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>> >>> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> >>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> >>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> >> http://udig.refractions.net
>> >> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Rafael Gaitán Linares
>> > Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
>> > Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>> > Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> > http://udig.refractions.net
>> > http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Universita` di Trento         Dipartimento di Ingegneria Civile  e
> Ambientale/CUDAM
> Via Mesiano, 77, 38050  Trento      (ITALIA)
> E-mail:  [hidden email]
> Ph: +390461882614-10    Fax:+390461882672
> Web page: http://www.ing.unitn.it/dica/hp/?user=rigon
> Publications according to ISI: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-5395-2008
> JGrass (Open Source GIS): http://www.jgrass.org/
> GEOtop (Open Source distributed hydrological model):  http://www.geotop.org/
> _______________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>



--
Rafael Gaitán Linares
Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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Re: UDIG3D alpha version release!!

Jody Garnett-2
Do not worry. The point is to help each other and sort our ways to  
collaborate (since there is so much cool stuff to do).



On 16/10/2009, at 6:14 PM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wow!
>
> This thread is getting big!.
>
> Ok, So If I understood correctly if we deploy our GPL plugin
> independently from uDIG, and users download it, then is possible to
> use it without licensce conflict, isn't it?
>
> By now.. and until we get confirmation I prefer to wait. I hope all of
> you understand our position and I'm really sorry for the noise!
>
> Rafa.
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Jody Garnett  
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I just noticed my reply was not clear; gvSIG has entered the OSGeo
>> incubation process and I trust any questions will be resolved. The
>> foundation has been great and was able to help GeoTools out a lot  
>> during the
>> incubation process.
>> Jody
>> On 16/10/2009, at 1:14 AM, Riccardo Rigon wrote:
>>
>> Then the whole gvSIG project is in trouble. GPLv2 upon EPL. Isn't  
>> it ?
>> riccardo
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Craig Taverner wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> There is actually a more serious problem, and that is that uDIG is an
>> eclipse application, and includes a large number of org.eclipse.*  
>> plugins,
>> which are all EPL licensed. EPL is incompatible with GPL, so you  
>> cannot
>> release the complete product as GPL. This also means you cannot use  
>> a GPL
>> library in the product, because that forces you to release as GPL,  
>> which you
>> cannot. Catch-22.
>>
>> So there are two solutions:
>>
>> Do not use any GPL libraries, only LGPL libraries, in which case  
>> you have
>> choice of the license to release your product under, LGPL or EPL,  
>> or other,
>> but not GPL.
>> Release the product without the GPL component, making it an  
>> optional module
>> the end users can download and install. The license incompatibility  
>> between
>> GPL and EPL apparently only affects your ability to distribute the
>> combination.
>>
>> This license spat between the eclipse foundation and the FSF has  
>> hurt us. We
>> needed to negotiate a *commercial* license from the vendor of our GPL
>> component in order to distribute our product. This is not a good  
>> thing.
>>
>> But in your case, you could still provide your GPL component as an  
>> optional
>> module to uDIG, as long as you did not actually distribute it  
>> combined with
>> any EPL components. That is my understanding.
>>
>> Regards, Craig
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:47 PM, andrea antonello
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> Yes I thought that there wasn't problem, but a comment on the blog
>>>> points to some conflicts on the license
>>>> (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility).
>>>
>>> Can you point me to the comment?
>>> From the comments I see that you can have a GPL project and use  
>>> mix it
>>> with LGPL, as long as you rerelease it under GPL:
>>> "LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense the code under GPLv3. In
>>> these cases, you can combine the code if you convert the LGPLed code
>>> to GPLv3."
>>>
>>>> Of course I know our plugin must be GPL, but if anyone uses uDIG +
>>>> 3DPlugin then it cannot be LGPL.. only GPL (I think), so no closed
>>>> developments could be done with 3D plugin. So the really question  
>>>> here
>>>> if is there any conclict between the two licenses. From gvSIG they
>>>> told us that is a problem.
>>>
>>> Should not be any conflict. We can't release udig with the plugin
>>> under LGPL, that would be a problem.
>>> But you can make your own release of udig that you define to be GPL,
>>> since, as the comment states: LGPLv3 gives you permission to  
>>> relicense
>>> the code under GPLv3.
>>> And then you are good. You are doing it right now. Just define in  
>>> the
>>> license of your 3d release that the whole thing is gpl.
>>> I have the same issues with dxf and dwg code from jump and gvsig. I
>>> willl have to release those plugins as gpl. No real problem.
>>>
>>> Don't give up that good work!
>>> Ciao
>>> Andrea
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Jody
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]
>>>>> >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Jody et all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We regret to inform all of you that due to a license  
>>>>>> incompatibility
>>>>>> we cannot continue the development of the UDIG3D extension and  
>>>>>> we have
>>>>>> retired the previously uploaded alpha releases and we have  
>>>>>> closed down
>>>>>> the subversion repository
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OSGVirtualPlanets(osgVP) is a GPLv2 framework developed in the  
>>>>>> AI2 and
>>>>>> supported by gvSIG, so the GPL license is a must here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We really apologize for the trouble we have caused to everyone,
>>>>>> Rafa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Mauricio Pazos
>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday 08 October 2009 08:03:19 am Rafa Gaitan wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Jody,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is an independent plugin, we didn't make changes to the  
>>>>>>>>>> core
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> udig, but we had lots of problems because some parts where  
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>>> extendable, so we replicate some code in there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is where we need your conversation and input on the
>>>>>>>>> udig-devel
>>>>>>>>> list here :-) I would really recommend including time to  
>>>>>>>>> bust out
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> extension points and so on in your future plans.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I need to recall and make a review to the Eline code and  
>>>>>>>> I will
>>>>>>>> post here again. If I remember Eline commented in the mail-
>>>>>>>> list some
>>>>>>>> of the problems she had.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greetz,
>>>>>>>> Rafa.
>>>>>>> He Rafa: my congratulations. If your team identify new extension
>>>>>>> points for
>>>>>>> uDig framework it will be an important step.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mauricio Pazos
>>>>>>> www.axios.es
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Rafael Gaitán Linares
>>>>>> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial
>>>>>>  http://www.ai2.upv.es
>>>>>> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>>>>>> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>>>>>> http://udig.refractions.net
>>>>>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>>>>> http://udig.refractions.net
>>>>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rafael Gaitán Linares
>>>> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.
>>>> es
>>>> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>>>> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>>>> http://udig.refractions.net
>>>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>>> http://udig.refractions.net
>>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Universita` di Trento         Dipartimento di Ingegneria Civile  e
>> Ambientale/CUDAM
>> Via Mesiano, 77, 38050  Trento      (ITALIA)
>> E-mail:  [hidden email]
>> Ph: +390461882614-10    Fax:+390461882672
>> Web page: http://www.ing.unitn.it/dica/hp/?user=rigon
>> Publications according to ISI: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-5395-2008
>> JGrass (Open Source GIS): http://www.jgrass.org/
>> GEOtop (Open Source distributed hydrological model):  http://www.geotop.org/
>> _______________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rafael Gaitán Linares
> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv 
> .es
> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
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Re: UDIG3D alpha version release!!

Craig Taverner-2
In reply to this post by Rafa Gaitan
Regarding geting confirmation, I recommend you contact the eclipse foundation and FSF. We found both more than willing to answer any questions on this point, by phone and email.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wow!

This thread is getting big!.

Ok, So If I understood correctly if we deploy our GPL plugin
independently from uDIG, and users download it, then is possible to
use it without licensce conflict, isn't it?

By now.. and until we get confirmation I prefer to wait. I hope all of
you understand our position and I'm really sorry for the noise!

Rafa.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I just noticed my reply was not clear; gvSIG has entered the OSGeo
> incubation process and I trust any questions will be resolved. The
> foundation has been great and was able to help GeoTools out a lot during the
> incubation process.
> Jody
> On 16/10/2009, at 1:14 AM, Riccardo Rigon wrote:
>
> Then the whole gvSIG project is in trouble. GPLv2 upon EPL. Isn't it ?
> riccardo
>
> On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Craig Taverner wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is actually a more serious problem, and that is that uDIG is an
> eclipse application, and includes a large number of org.eclipse.* plugins,
> which are all EPL licensed. EPL is incompatible with GPL, so you cannot
> release the complete product as GPL. This also means you cannot use a GPL
> library in the product, because that forces you to release as GPL, which you
> cannot. Catch-22.
>
> So there are two solutions:
>
> Do not use any GPL libraries, only LGPL libraries, in which case you have
> choice of the license to release your product under, LGPL or EPL, or other,
> but not GPL.
> Release the product without the GPL component, making it an optional module
> the end users can download and install. The license incompatibility between
> GPL and EPL apparently only affects your ability to distribute the
> combination.
>
> This license spat between the eclipse foundation and the FSF has hurt us. We
> needed to negotiate a *commercial* license from the vendor of our GPL
> component in order to distribute our product. This is not a good thing.
>
> But in your case, you could still provide your GPL component as an optional
> module to uDIG, as long as you did not actually distribute it combined with
> any EPL components. That is my understanding.
>
> Regards, Craig
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:47 PM, andrea antonello
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> > Yes I thought that there wasn't problem, but a comment on the blog
>> > points to some conflicts on the license
>> > (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility).
>>
>> Can you point me to the comment?
>> From the comments I see that you can have a GPL project and use mix it
>> with LGPL, as long as you rerelease it under GPL:
>> "LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense the code under GPLv3. In
>> these cases, you can combine the code if you convert the LGPLed code
>> to GPLv3."
>>
>> > Of course I know our plugin must be GPL, but if anyone uses uDIG +
>> > 3DPlugin then it cannot be LGPL.. only GPL (I think), so no closed
>> > developments could be done with 3D plugin. So the really question here
>> > if is there any conclict between the two licenses. From gvSIG they
>> > told us that is a problem.
>>
>> Should not be any conflict. We can't release udig with the plugin
>> under LGPL, that would be a problem.
>> But you can make your own release of udig that you define to be GPL,
>> since, as the comment states: LGPLv3 gives you permission to relicense
>> the code under GPLv3.
>> And then you are good. You are doing it right now. Just define in the
>> license of your 3d release that the whole thing is gpl.
>> I have the same issues with dxf and dwg code from jump and gvsig. I
>> willl have to release those plugins as gpl. No real problem.
>>
>> Don't give up that good work!
>> Ciao
>> Andrea
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Jody
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Rafa Gaitan <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Hi Jody et all,
>> >>>
>> >>> We regret to inform all of you that due to a license incompatibility
>> >>> we cannot continue the development of the UDIG3D extension and we have
>> >>> retired the previously uploaded alpha releases and we have closed down
>> >>> the subversion repository
>> >>>
>> >>> OSGVirtualPlanets(osgVP) is a GPLv2 framework developed in the AI2 and
>> >>> supported by gvSIG, so the GPL license is a must here.
>> >>>
>> >>> We really apologize for the trouble we have caused to everyone,
>> >>> Rafa.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Mauricio Pazos
>> >>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>> On Thursday 08 October 2009 08:03:19 am Rafa Gaitan wrote:
>> >>>>> Hi Jody,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> >> It is an independent plugin, we didn't make changes to the core
>> >>>>> >> of
>> >>>>> >> udig, but we had lots of problems because some parts where not
>> >>>>> >> fully
>> >>>>> >> extendable, so we replicate some code in there.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > That is where we need your conversation and input on the
>> >>>>> > udig-devel
>> >>>>> > list here :-) I would really recommend including time to bust out
>> >>>>> > new
>> >>>>> > extension points and so on in your future plans.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yes, I need to recall and make a review to the Eline code and I will
>> >>>>> post here again. If I remember Eline commented in the mail-list some
>> >>>>> of the problems she had.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Greetz,
>> >>>>> Rafa.
>> >>>> He Rafa: my congratulations. If your team identify new extension
>> >>>> points for
>> >>>> uDig framework it will be an important step.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> cheers
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Mauricio Pazos
>> >>>> www.axios.es
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Rafael Gaitán Linares
>> >>> Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial
>> >>>  http://www.ai2.upv.es
>> >>> Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>> >>> Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> >>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> >>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> >> http://udig.refractions.net
>> >> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Rafael Gaitán Linares
>> > Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
>> > Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
>> > Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> > http://udig.refractions.net
>> > http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
>> http://udig.refractions.net
>> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Universita` di Trento         Dipartimento di Ingegneria Civile  e
> Ambientale/CUDAM
> Via Mesiano, 77, 38050  Trento      (ITALIA)
> E-mail:  [hidden email]
> Ph: +390461882614-10    Fax:+390461882672
> Web page: http://www.ing.unitn.it/dica/hp/?user=rigon
> Publications according to ISI: http://www.researcherid.com/rid/B-5395-2008
> JGrass (Open Source GIS): http://www.jgrass.org/
> GEOtop (Open Source distributed hydrological model):  http://www.geotop.org/
> _______________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
> http://udig.refractions.net
> http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
>
>



--
Rafael Gaitán Linares
Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
Universidad Politécnica de Valencia
_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel


_______________________________________________
User-friendly Desktop Internet GIS (uDig)
http://udig.refractions.net
http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/udig-devel
12