UK Motorways 100% Complete

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UK Motorways 100% Complete

Etienne Cherdlu
Folks
I'm pleased to announce that the main carriageways of all mainland UK
motorways have been completed.  Over 3,000 km of roadway.

This does not include motorways in Northern Ireland nor does it
include motorway sections of A roads, so there is still plenty of work
to do.

Etienne

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Tom Carden
On 1/7/06, Etienne Cherdlu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Folks
> I'm pleased to announce that the main carriageways of all mainland UK
> motorways have been completed.  Over 3,000 km of roadway.
>
> This does not include motorways in Northern Ireland nor does it
> include motorway sections of A roads, so there is still plenty of work
> to do.
>

Blogged - http://www.openstreetmap.org/news/?p=27

Tom.

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Mikel Maron
In reply to this post by Etienne Cherdlu

Wow, Super!

I'm interested in generating some imagery of just the motorways..

Are the motorways identified in any way, within the key/value tags (such as type=motorway)?
Or a consistent naming scheme (M*)?

-Mikel

----- Original Message ----
From: Etienne Cherdlu <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:45:05 AM
Subject: [Openstreetmap] UK Motorways 100% Complete

Folks
I'm pleased to announce that the main carriageways of all mainland UK
motorways have been completed.  Over 3,000 km of roadway.

This does not include motorways in Northern Ireland nor does it
include motorway sections of A roads, so there is still plenty of work
to do.

Etienne

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Nick Whitelegg-2
In reply to this post by Etienne Cherdlu




Mikel Maron <[hidden email]>
07/01/2006 12:52

Please respond to Mikel Maron <[hidden email]>

Sent by:    [hidden email]


To:    [hidden email], Etienne Cherdlu
       <[hidden email]>


>Are the motorways identified in any way, within the key/value tags (such
as type=motorway)?
>Or a consistent naming scheme (M*)?

Most (except the M271 outside Southampton) do not show up as a thick black
line in Freemap so I'm guessing not, unless another key/value system has
been used....

For them to show up on Freemap they would need to be annotated as:

class=motorway; car=yes

Nick



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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Simon Hewison
Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> Most (except the M271 outside Southampton) do not show up as a thick black
> line in Freemap so I'm guessing not, unless another key/value system has
> been used....
>
> For them to show up on Freemap they would need to be annotated as:
>
> class=motorway; car=yes

Which is wonderful in theory, except for the fact that most people
editing openstreetmap probably still use the applet, which doesn't know
how to set, or make sensible use of, any tags other than "name".

Is there a reason you chose thick black to represent a motorway? Almost
every (european) map I've seen uses a thick mid-blue with a black
outline to represent a motorway carriageway. This colour corresponds
with the standard colour of motorway signs, which in HTML speak is
COLOR="#007BC6".

(Though Australia, USA and a few others use green for their motorway signs)

--
Simon Hewison

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Lars Aronsson
In reply to this post by Etienne Cherdlu
Etienne Cherdlu wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce that the main carriageways of all mainland UK
> motorways have been completed.  Over 3,000 km of roadway.

According to Wikipedia, the U.K. (including Northern Ireland, I
suppose) has 3610 km of motorways.  I was surprised to find that
it wasn't more.  Spain has 9910 km, France has 10220 km, and the
tiny Netherlands has 2520 km.

Do you also aim to cover all motorway exits?  I found that driving
Linköping-Stockholm (200 km of motorway) took 3 hours instead of
the usual 2 hours when I was trying to exit and reenter at every
motorway exit.  :-)  Sweden has 1589 km of motorway and I guess
OSM has covered less than one third of that.  That number also
happens to be the length of the country from north to south, an
observation that led me to the following reflexion:

Dividing a country's area with the length of its motorways will
give a distance (sq.km / km = km) between equally spaced motorways
laid out as stripes over the surface.  In such a landscape, you
would have to walk more than twice as long in Britain before you
stumble across a motorway than in Germany, five times longer in
Poland than in the Czech Republic, and eight times longer in
Norway than in Sweden:

                     Area     Motorways    Spacing
                     sq.km      km           km
    Czech Republic    78866      558        141
    Denmark           43094     1010         43
    Finland          338145      650        520
    France           547030    10220         54
    Germany          356974    12040         30
    Netherlands       41526     2520         16
    Norway           385199      170       2265
    Poland           312685      400        781
    Spain            504782     9910         51
    Sweden           449964     1589        283
    U.K.             244101     3610         68

If you divide motorway kilometres by population, you will find
very low numbers for Norway and Poland.  In Norway's case this can
be explained by the mountainous geography, but in Poland it seems
to be a national policy to build other kinds of roads.  The
smaller, less populated, more mountainous and equally ex-Eastern
block Czech Republic has more motorways than Poland.

Can we add kilometres of roadway (sum of length of line segments)
to the Stats page on the wiki?  This would count motorways twice
(both carriageways), but I could live with that.


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Rev Simon Rumble
This one time, at band camp, Lars Aronsson wrote:

> According to Wikipedia, the U.K. (including Northern Ireland, I
> suppose) has 3610 km of motorways.  I was surprised to find that
> it wasn't more.  Spain has 9910 km, France has 10220 km, and the
> tiny Netherlands has 2520 km.

The tabloids howl bloody murder in the UK whenever anyone suggests cost
recovery for motorists (or, for that matter, enforcement of the law).  
That means the motorways are all free (excepting one newly-opened
stretch near Birmingham).  The tabloids seem to prefer that the road
freight industry (who also don't pay VAT) be subsidised by the ordinary
taxpayer.

I suspect the lack of an income stream has something to do with the lack
of motorways, though I would say that the network is pretty good and
mostly free-flowing outside the cities.

--
Rev Simon Rumble <[hidden email]>
www.rumble.net

The Tourist Engineer
Geeks need vacations too.
http://engineer.openguides.org/

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all
 other countries because you were born in it."
 - George Bernard Shaw

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Nick Whitelegg-2
In reply to this post by Etienne Cherdlu




>> For them to show up on Freemap they would need to be annotated as:
>
>> class=motorway; car=yes

>Which is wonderful in theory, except for the fact that most people
>editing openstreetmap probably still use the applet, which doesn't know
>how to set, or make sensible use of, any tags other than "name".

So what I guess you're saying is that the applet should be able to set
tags?

>Is there a reason you chose thick black to represent a motorway? Almost
>every (european) map I've seen uses a thick mid-blue with a black
>outline to represent a motorway carriageway. This colour corresponds
>with the standard colour of motorway signs, which in HTML speak is
>COLOR="#007BC6".

I was intending on using blue for rivers, and using blue for motorways as
well might confuse things - even if they are a different shade of blue.

Nick



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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Nick Whitelegg-2
In reply to this post by Etienne Cherdlu



>>
>> For them to show up on Freemap they would need to be annotated as:
>>
>> class=motorway; car=yes

>Which is wonderful in theory, except for the fact that most people
>editing openstreetmap probably still use the applet, which doesn't know
>how to set, or make sensible use of, any tags other than "name".

Just to clarify - motorways (and, in fact, *all* openstreetmap segments) do
show up on Freemap, but if they're not tagged, they just show up as a
default grey line.

Nick



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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

frank mohr
In reply to this post by Simon Hewison
Simon Hewison wrote:
>
> Is there a reason you chose thick black to represent a motorway? Almost
> every (european) map I've seen uses a thick mid-blue with a black
> outline to represent a motorway carriageway. This colour corresponds
> with the standard colour of motorway signs, which in HTML speak is
> COLOR="#007BC6".
>
> (Though Australia, USA and a few others use green for their motorway signs)
>

there are a lot of other different color representations

thin black/orange/yellow/orange/thin black  -- Germany and France
thin orange/yellow/thin orange              -- Germany small scale
red/white/red                               -- ICAO Aironautical
thin black/orange/thick black/orange/thin black -- NATO maps
red brown double solid thin lines           -- MIL 89045
         (you could download the symbol set from nima.mil some
          time ago, but i didn't find any prg. that handled
          "CGM Version 4" on linux)
thick black/white/thin black/white/thick black  -- topo maps,
                                            Switzerland 1:25000

thick black/yellow/thin black/yellow/thick black

                                            -- Switzerland

       

       
               
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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Jo Walsh
In reply to this post by Rev Simon Rumble
On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 02:44:14PM +0000, Rev Simon Rumble wrote:
> The tabloids howl bloody murder in the UK whenever anyone suggests cost
> recovery for motorists (or, for that matter, enforcement of the law).  
> That means the motorways are all free (excepting one newly-opened
> stretch near Birmingham).  The tabloids seem to prefer that the road
> freight industry (who also don't pay VAT) be subsidised by the ordinary
> taxpayer.

"galileo road pricing" throws up some interesting web search results.
it looks like the biggest justification for "now we have invested in a
GPS system alternative, what are we going to do with it?"

i guess it has particular appeal in the political economy of the UK
where motorways are "free at the point of access" and all car drivers
pay a flat rate tax regardless of whether or how much they use them.

i read a wonderful, slim 1960's book this summer called i think
"transportation, economics and town planning" which talked up road
pricing as the only really equitable way to get car users to pay the
true social and economic costs of their activity. but if they had to
do that, i doubt they would spend so much time on motorways.

the book was sad in some ways, very "milton keynes is the ideal future".
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Keynes )
but it got me thinking a lot, if mushily, about how congestion works.
in congestion, each person/car/entity imposes the same 'cost' on each
of its near neighbours as it receives 'cost' of delay. i dreamt up a
scheme by which one could reflect this directly in a p2p community currency
system that would never need to know where each vehicle/person/entity
actually *is*, only how congested it is. i am not sure how, if indeed
if, one could extract and convert the value from a system like this:
http://frot.org/bus/wiki.cgi?TheMachineJams
it wouldn't help to pay for building more roads. but who is to say
that would be a bad thing? ;)

i find it hard to imagine that "the public" would really swallow the
idea of a GPS-powered road usage metering system. there would be so
many loopholes. and it's such a security/privacy mess.

i want to become a transportation ecologist.


-jo


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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Rev Simon Rumble
This one time, at band camp, Jo Walsh wrote:

> i find it hard to imagine that "the public" would really swallow the
> idea of a GPS-powered road usage metering system. there would be so
> many loopholes. and it's such a security/privacy mess.

The public needs to realise that we're ALL subsidising the road freight
industry.  When engineers calculate the wear a vehicle places on the
road, they use a formula that goes weight X axle.  So a 1 tonne family
car with 2 axles goes to 2 tonnes wear.  A 25 tonne lorry with 6 axles,
as you can imagine, causes significantly more wear.

Lorries do not pay 72.5 times the road or fuel taxes, and they tend to
be on the road a hell of a lot more than the average family car.

It gets worse: rail freight, which is generally thought to be better
environmentally and socially, must charge VAT.  Road freight doesn't.  
Ignoring all the other distorting subsidies on both forms of freight,
there's a 12.5% subsidy right there.

These road freight subsidies are why Tesco has only a few warehouses
around the country, with everything being trucked dwn to them and then
trucked out to the stores.  If they were paying anything near their
actual costs, I suspect they might end up having store rooms in their
supermarkets again.

--
Rev Simon Rumble <[hidden email]>
www.rumble.net

The Tourist Engineer
Nerds need vacations too.
http://engineer.openguides.org/

See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a penis,
and only enough blood to run one at a time.

- Robin Williams

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Andy Armstrong
On 7 Jan 2006, at 16:59, Rev Simon Rumble wrote:
> The public needs to realise that we're ALL subsidising the road  
> freight
> industry.  When engineers calculate the wear a vehicle places on the
> road, they use a formula that goes weight X axle.  So a 1 tonne family
> car with 2 axles goes to 2 tonnes wear.  A 25 tonne lorry with 6  
> axles,
> as you can imagine, causes significantly more wear.

Sorry - you've got that a bit wrong. As far as I'm aware this is a  
pretty fair analysis of the situation:
  http://www.ratio.se/upload/roadwear.pdf

--
Andy Armstrong, hexten.net


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RE: UK Motorways 100% Complete

ANDY ROBINSON-2
In reply to this post by Etienne Cherdlu
Pat on the back to all those who have worked on the UK to date.

Just to point out that although all the motorways in the UK are "completed"
they are by no way complete and we still need people to have their gps
logging running when travelling on them or over them. Many of the recent
motorway edits use a mixture of the Landsat background and sparse GPS data,
often on only one carriageway, so we still need to lay down more points to
provide better map accuracy.

The other point is the junctions. We have a large number still to map. Which
brings me to another suggestion:

Although it might look odd to other road users, may I suggest that whenever
anyone logs dual carriageway and other major road junctions at motorways
(equally applicable elsewhere), drive around each roundabout/rotary at least
one full revolution (more if logging interval is less frequent) so that we
can see a good trace. It then makes it much easier to place the road
slips/exits, even if they haven't been travelled.

Cheers,

Andy Robinson
(Blackadder)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email] [mailto:openstreetmap-
>[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Etienne Cherdlu
>Sent: 07 January 2006 10:45
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [Openstreetmap] UK Motorways 100% Complete
>
>Folks
>I'm pleased to announce that the main carriageways of all mainland UK
>motorways have been completed.  Over 3,000 km of roadway.
>
>This does not include motorways in Northern Ireland nor does it
>include motorway sections of A roads, so there is still plenty of work
>to do.
>
>Etienne
>
>_______________________________________________
>Openstreetmap mailing list
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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

David Cantrell (at home)
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2
On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 02:48:39PM +0000, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

> I was intending on using blue for rivers, and using blue for motorways as
> well might confuse things - even if they are a different shade of blue.

It seems to work OK on printed maps.  The shapes that motorways and
rivers make are completely different - motorways like going straight, or
with gentle curves, and remain the same width, whereas rivers waggle all
over the place, change width, have very different junctions, ...

Canals are less perverse in their routes etc than rivers are, but even
they don't really cause confusion.

Also, dual carriageways (and hence motorways) are often shown with a black
line up the middle to seperate the carriageways.  You never see that on
a river.

So really, using different shades of blue for motorways and rivers
shouldn't cause you any problems.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Lars Aronsson
In reply to this post by Nick Whitelegg-2
Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> So what I guess you're saying is that the applet should be able to set
> tags?

It could easily do this, not by providing a confusing "set tag"
tool, but by providing tools for drawing typed line segments, e.g.
"draw motorway carriageway line segment", "draw railroad line
segment", "draw canal line segment", etc.  These would be rendered
in the right color and thickness, so the result immediately looks
like a real road map.

In the last decade, many normal country roads in Sweden have been
converted to a new type by raising a steel wire barrier in the
middle, effectively prohibiting cars from crossing over into
oncoming traffic.  These roads are built with 1 lane in one
direction and 2 in the other, switching every few kilometres, and
they are called "2+1 roads".  Do these exist in other countries?
These are a lot safer than normal country roads, but a lot cheaper
to build than motorways. There is a picture at the bottom of
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajerr%C3%A4cke  There is an English
description at http://www.trm.dk/sw9212.asp


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Christian van den Bosch
Lars Aronsson wrote:

> they are called "2+1 roads".  Do these exist in other countries?

A few of of these have sprung up in Ireland in the last couple of years,
heavily signposted with "experimental road layout". No doubt there will
be more if the experiment proves a success.

Christian / cjb

http://www.cjb.ie/

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Lars Aronsson
In reply to this post by Rev Simon Rumble
Rev Simon Rumble wrote:

> The public needs to realise that we're ALL subsidising the road
> freight industry.

I don't know which countries you all live in, but in Sweden there
is a tax on gasoline that makes up some three quarters of the
price (currently 11 SEK/litre).  As far as I know, the state
income from this tax is sufficient to pay for road construction,
maintenance, health care related to traffic accidents, and more.  
Road traffic is a source of income for the state, not a cost.  
Tax money is used for subsidizing railroads, but a train ticket to
Stockholm is more expensive than driving there alone in my car.


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Lars Aronsson
In reply to this post by Christian van den Bosch
Christian van den Bosch wrote:
> > they are called "2+1 roads".  Do these exist in other countries?
>
> A few of of these have sprung up in Ireland in the last couple of years,
> heavily signposted with "experimental road layout". No doubt there will be
> more if the experiment proves a success.

I just created a stub http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2+1_road


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: UK Motorways 100% Complete

Raphael Jacquot-2
In reply to this post by Lars Aronsson
Lars Aronsson wrote:

> In the last decade, many normal country roads in Sweden have been
> converted to a new type by raising a steel wire barrier in the
> middle, effectively prohibiting cars from crossing over into
> oncoming traffic.  These roads are built with 1 lane in one
> direction and 2 in the other, switching every few kilometres, and
> they are called "2+1 roads".  Do these exist in other countries?
> These are a lot safer than normal country roads, but a lot cheaper
> to build than motorways.

I saw those, and think they're in fact a temporary step to full motorway
status.
I found the metal posts and steel wire rather aggressive, and I'm not
sure those things make the roads in question any safer for bikers (the
sliced to death problem arises...)

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