Updating info for an old Tiger road

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Updating info for an old Tiger road

Doug Hembry
I'm sure this must be good answers to these questions, since old Tiger
data has been fixed up by community members for years - but I'm a
newbie, and I can't find clear answers in the wiki, or in the forum.

Q1: "Old" Tiger imported roads have various Tiger tags: tiger:cfcc,
tiger:name_base, tiger:county, tiger:source, tiger:tlid, etc, as well as
tiger:reviewed=no. Once the road has been reviewed and adjusted
(carefully - how is not the issue here), which of these tags can be
removed as no longer needed? I assume tiger:reviewed=no can be deleted,
but what about the others? Should a new source= tag be added to reflect
the review, alongside the tiger:source= tag?

Q2: A special case of Q1: Some old roads in this part of the US
(California, SF Bay Area) have been absorbed into "Open Space" lands (a
sort of Bay Area green belt). The map still has old Tiger data giving
them a name, all the tags mentioned in Q1, and often designating them as
highway=residential. But on the ground today, the roads have
deteriorated into tracks, maintained as fire roads and for recreation.
The road name has fallen out of use (no road signs, and trail names
often different from their old road names). How to handle this? Do all
the old Tiger tags go? Does the name= tag go? It seems a pity to discard
the old information about what these tracks/roads once were - they are
pertinent to understanding the historical record of the region, even if
the renderers don't use such information. Is there some way to modify
the old tags as no longer current, but leave them in place?

Q3: A special case of Q2: In some cases, these old Tiger roads have
disappeared completely - overgrown and no longer in use, leaving perhaps
only the outline of a road bed  and an absence of large trees. Should
all the information about such roads be deleted from OSM? Same concern
applies as for Q2.

What's the consensus on best practices for such situations?
Thanks!


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Re: Updating info for an old Tiger road

Mike N.
On 8/30/2014 8:15 PM, Doug Hembry wrote:
> removed as no longer needed? I assume tiger:reviewed=no can be deleted,
> but what about the others? Should a new source= tag be added to reflect
> the review, alongside the tiger:source= tag?

   You may remove reviewed=no after you are confident that the road
information is now accurate.  Editors will automatically remove unneeded
tags.  source= should be added to the changeset when possible - that way
it applies to your edits, and the next editor may not notice or update a
source= on the way.

>
> highway=residential. But on the ground today, the roads have
> deteriorated into tracks, maintained as fire roads and for recreation.
> The road name has fallen out of use (no road signs, and trail names
> often different from their old road names). How to handle this? Do all
> the old Tiger tags go? Does the name= tag go? It seems a pity to discard
> the old information about what these tracks/roads once were - they are
> pertinent to understanding the historical record of the region, even if
> the renderers don't use such information. Is there some way to modify
> the old tags as no longer current, but leave them in place?

   Update the way information to reflect its current state.  Tiger tags
are not important for that case: they may all be deleted.  OpenstreetMap
retains the history of the way, so the current information will not be
completely discarded in any case.

> Q3: A special case of Q2: In some cases, these old Tiger roads have
> disappeared completely - overgrown and no longer in use, leaving perhaps
> only the outline of a road bed  and an absence of large trees. Should
> all the information about such roads be deleted from OSM? Same concern
> applies as for Q2.

   It will be best to just delete the road - it will be in the history
record for that region.



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Re: Updating info for an old Tiger road

Todd D. Taft
On 8/30/14, 8:27 PM, Mike N wrote:

> On 8/30/2014 8:15 PM, Doug Hembry wrote:
>> highway=residential. But on the ground today, the roads have
>> deteriorated into tracks, maintained as fire roads and for recreation.
>> The road name has fallen out of use (no road signs, and trail names
>> often different from their old road names). How to handle this? Do all
>> the old Tiger tags go? Does the name= tag go? It seems a pity to discard
>> the old information about what these tracks/roads once were - they are
>> pertinent to understanding the historical record of the region, even if
>> the renderers don't use such information. Is there some way to modify
>> the old tags as no longer current, but leave them in place?
>
>   Update the way information to reflect its current state.  Tiger tags
> are not important for that case: they may all be deleted.
> OpenstreetMap retains the history of the way, so the current
> information will not be completely discarded in any case.
>
While you are technically correct that information about deleted tags or
even entirely deleted ways remains in the database, it's somewhat
difficult to access this data in many rendering engines. Unless the
change has a good change note, it's often hard to know why something got
changed.  Did the old values reflect a reality that existed at some
point in the past, but conditions have changed such that properties need
to be updated, or were the old values wrong in the initial database and
thus never actually reflected reality?

There are some tags that I'll list below that could be used to maintain
information about the former state of these roads in such a way that
indicate that conditions have changed.  In (the default configuration
of) most rendering engines, these tags would not affect how the way
appears in map view, but they would still appear if someone selected the
way and viewed the tags.

I would agree that the primary tags should be updated to reflect the
current status of these former roads.

The old_name tag ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:old_name )
would be a way to preserve the former names of these roads if they now
have different names.

I would suggest that you look at the disused and abandoned name spaces
to describe the former roads, especially in the cases where the former
roadway still exists in some other form (e.g. path).  See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:disused and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:abandoned for a more complete
description.

If no trace of a former object exists, I have usually seen the node or
way deleted; however, there are some other potential ways of dealing
with these situations.  See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:end_date or
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM for more information.  
Note that there are many unresolved issues and some controversy
regarding keeping objects that no longer exist in OSM.

--
Todd D. Taft
[hidden email]


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