Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

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Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Ewen Hill
Hi,
   The people of the Goolarabooloo and Jabirr Jabirr countries around Broome
developed a 90km walking trail to showcase their country. This was done 30
years ago and uses roads, beach, rock escarpments and overgrown trails. You
are welcome to use  the trail yourself but the country organises guided
walks which are infrequent (3 or 4 a year of parts of the walk).

   I have sent the Goolarabooloo people a basic email offering assistance to
them drawing the route themselves or offering to provide a waiver later
however a few questions piqued my interest

1. Has anyone dealt with Aborignal elders to obtain knowledge before and was
it successful?
2. Is a walk copyright-able or where does OSM sit when it comes to elders
use of knowledge of country to construct a walk relatively recently where
parts of the walk will be arbitrary depending on tide and season.
3. Can someone assist with the location of the current waiver form and
process



   



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Re: Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Phil Wyatt
HI Ewen,

I can answer some of your queries

3 - Re the waiver - try this page - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission 

2 - I am not sure a track could be copyright-able unless it was solely on private/indigenous land. I have been involved in track management in Tasmania for years and whilst we have generally agreed that 'tracks' should be on maps we have also ensured that more remote 'pads and routes' were not on maps to maintain the recreational opportunity spectrum (track classifications from Wheelchair accessible to remote off track experiences).

In this instance you will likely face a couple of issues - the changing location of the track depending on season etc and secondly, does it exist on the ground in any formal way (ie markers etc). If it does exist on the ground, on public land then I would say it could be traced into OSM (or from gps plots) on the general alignment.

3 - If it's on indigenous lands then I would certainly speak to the traditional owners to determine the level of invitation that they would like on their land. They may also have other ideas on what should be depicted as far as points of interest. A joint project with them would be ideal to determine all the correct tags on the track ways.

I am assuming that you are talking about the Lurujarri Heritage Trail - http://www.goolarabooloo.org.au/where-is-it.html 

Cheers - Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Ewen Hill [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2018 12:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [talk-au] Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Hi,
   The people of the Goolarabooloo and Jabirr Jabirr countries around Broome
developed a 90km walking trail to showcase their country. This was done 30
years ago and uses roads, beach, rock escarpments and overgrown trails. You
are welcome to use  the trail yourself but the country organises guided
walks which are infrequent (3 or 4 a year of parts of the walk).

   I have sent the Goolarabooloo people a basic email offering assistance to
them drawing the route themselves or offering to provide a waiver later
however a few questions piqued my interest

1. Has anyone dealt with Aborignal elders to obtain knowledge before and was
it successful?
2. Is a walk copyright-able or where does OSM sit when it comes to elders
use of knowledge of country to construct a walk relatively recently where
parts of the walk will be arbitrary depending on tide and season.
3. Can someone assist with the location of the current waiver form and
process



   



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Re: Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Ewen Hill
Phil,
   Thank you for the reply and insight into some of the difficulties. I
dealt with a community during an emergency recently and their knowledge of
what was sacred and historic was immense and appeared spot on.

The trail is the Lurujarri Heritage Trail as you suspected. I have just had
an email back to say the elders do not want the trail mapped at this time
and I have thanked them for their consideration and have offered to assist
them with any naming they wanted changed or added otherwise.

It's an interesting conundrum that perhaps going forward we need to flag how
we deal with sacred areas and knowledge that should be respected by not
being mapped.

Ewen
   



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Re: Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Warin
On 23/08/18 20:37, Ewen Hill wrote:
> It's an interesting conundrum that perhaps going forward we need to flag how
> we deal with sacred areas and knowledge that should be respected by not
> being mapped.
>

Some of the problem is that in signifying and area as 'not to be mapped' it may draw attention to it.. and that is the last thing that is wanted.

Catch 22.

I have seen maps with that kind of detail .. mainly to tell construction crews where to stay out of.
Or where to be particularly accurate as to where the road goes .. either side is 'sacred' so they have to thread the needle.
But they are restricted maps .. not publicly available.
That kind of information is not be something I'd put into OSM. Sorry.


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Re: Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Ewen Hill



On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 at 20:38, Ewen Hill <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's an interesting conundrum that perhaps going forward we need to flag how
we deal with sacred areas and knowledge that should be respected by not
being mapped.

But the Trail itself is open for anybody to walk along, isn't it?

So there's nothing stopping an enthusiastic OSM'er from walking it with their GPS, then innocently mapping it, without knowing that that is against the wishes of the local community.

Maybe we need some sort of "Do not map" protection for sensitive areas so we can draw a box over the length of the Trail & "10" (?) km either side, so that nothing can be inserted in there? Could be set-up either as a visible greyed out area on the map, or as an area that you just can't edit - feasible?

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Luke Picciau-2
Intentionally not mapping a path in public space seems unsafe. What if someone gets lost on this trail and needs to find the way back?


On 24 August 2018 6:48:18 am ACST, Graeme Fitzpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 at 20:38, Ewen Hill <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's an interesting conundrum that perhaps going forward we need to flag how
we deal with sacred areas and knowledge that should be respected by not
being mapped.

But the Trail itself is open for anybody to walk along, isn't it?

So there's nothing stopping an enthusiastic OSM'er from walking it with their GPS, then innocently mapping it, without knowing that that is against the wishes of the local community.

Maybe we need some sort of "Do not map" protection for sensitive areas so we can draw a box over the length of the Trail & "10" (?) km either side, so that nothing can be inserted in there? Could be set-up either as a visible greyed out area on the map, or as an area that you just can't edit - feasible?

Thanks

Graeme



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Re: Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

Phil Wyatt
In reply to this post by Graeme Fitzpatrick

I had a quick check of the area and I reckon the trail ‘follows’ many of the roads/4wd tracks in the area and then deviates to places of interests so it’s not a rigidly defined track/walk. One each guided walk there may well be different places visited depending on the season or the conditions on the day. I would have no hesitation adding the roads/4wd tracks that proliferate in the area but that is as far as I would go without support of the indigenous locals.

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2018 7:18 AM
Cc: OSM-Au
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Using data from traditional owners of the land / Current waiver form

 


On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 at 20:38, Ewen Hill <[hidden email]> wrote:


It's an interesting conundrum that perhaps going forward we need to flag how
we deal with sacred areas and knowledge that should be respected by not
being mapped.

 

But the Trail itself is open for anybody to walk along, isn't it?

 

So there's nothing stopping an enthusiastic OSM'er from walking it with their GPS, then innocently mapping it, without knowing that that is against the wishes of the local community.

 

Maybe we need some sort of "Do not map" protection for sensitive areas so we can draw a box over the length of the Trail & "10" (?) km either side, so that nothing can be inserted in there? Could be set-up either as a visible greyed out area on the map, or as an area that you just can't edit - feasible?

 

Thanks

 

Graeme


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