We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

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We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

sk53.osm
* A message on the forum points out that the roads immediately to the east of Junction 36 have been substantially altered: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=65350


Aerial imagery, GPS traces, and ImproveOSM do not seem to offer any help. There are however traces on the Strava layers, but these are no longer suitable for making edits directly.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been picked up the Amazon Logistics editors as I would have thought this would be relevant to them.

Jerry



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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Brian Prangle-2
Hi Jerry

You've spotted a major omission!  You can see  the road layout in Sentinel-2  Satellite Imagery ( if you've got good eyes - resolution is pretty poor). But you've raised a much wider question. I've always felt that we kind o f owe it to people who have bothered to alert us to errors via notes to fix them as quickly as we can ( and encourage them to enter more notes). However notes are undifferentiated as to what is major what is old etc which makes "patrolling" notes irksome. and so we fail to respond adequately I feel we need something a little more organised and the UK chapter has had a plan for a notes application to help with this but just doesn't have the resources in terms of time to complete it. Any help appreciated from teh UK community. Other ideas might be to have a future Quarterly Project deveoted to clearing up notes, and to have designated  "patrol" areas where OSMers check for major errors and we have a an alert mechanism.
I'll contact  Amazon Logistics offlist to see if they can resolve this

Regards

Brian

On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 at 10:41, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
* A message on the forum points out that the roads immediately to the east of Junction 36 have been substantially altered: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=65350


Aerial imagery, GPS traces, and ImproveOSM do not seem to offer any help. There are however traces on the Strava layers, but these are no longer suitable for making edits directly.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been picked up the Amazon Logistics editors as I would have thought this would be relevant to them.

Jerry


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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Michael Booth
You can get an RSS feed to keep an eye on the in your area at https://tyrasd.github.io/osm-qa-feeds/

There's also one for the UK: http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=United%20Kingdom

I think a quarterly project on notes would be good for the summer, while people are more likely to be out and about to survey issues raised by the notes.

Not sure of the need for an app, as the OSM website is good enough for finding notes near you or wherever you are visiting. At least they are more accessible than the fixme tag - a lot of which could be moved into notes so they are visible to more people.

On 10/02/2019 12:11, Brian Prangle wrote:
Hi Jerry

You've spotted a major omission!  You can see  the road layout in Sentinel-2  Satellite Imagery ( if you've got good eyes - resolution is pretty poor). But you've raised a much wider question. I've always felt that we kind o f owe it to people who have bothered to alert us to errors via notes to fix them as quickly as we can ( and encourage them to enter more notes). However notes are undifferentiated as to what is major what is old etc which makes "patrolling" notes irksome. and so we fail to respond adequately I feel we need something a little more organised and the UK chapter has had a plan for a notes application to help with this but just doesn't have the resources in terms of time to complete it. Any help appreciated from teh UK community. Other ideas might be to have a future Quarterly Project deveoted to clearing up notes, and to have designated  "patrol" areas where OSMers check for major errors and we have a an alert mechanism.
I'll contact  Amazon Logistics offlist to see if they can resolve this

Regards

Brian

On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 at 10:41, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
* A message on the forum points out that the roads immediately to the east of Junction 36 have been substantially altered: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=65350


Aerial imagery, GPS traces, and ImproveOSM do not seem to offer any help. There are however traces on the Strava layers, but these are no longer suitable for making edits directly.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been picked up the Amazon Logistics editors as I would have thought this would be relevant to them.

Jerry


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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Paul Berry
In reply to this post by sk53.osm
I'm very aware of this junction (it's in my neck of the woods) but given there's no aerial imagery the only option, currently, is a ground survey. However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence of four major roads on foot.

What have others done in similar circumstances?

Regards,
Paul

On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 at 10:41, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
* A message on the forum points out that the roads immediately to the east of Junction 36 have been substantially altered: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=65350


Aerial imagery, GPS traces, and ImproveOSM do not seem to offer any help. There are however traces on the Strava layers, but these are no longer suitable for making edits directly.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been picked up the Amazon Logistics editors as I would have thought this would be relevant to them.

Jerry


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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

John Aldridge-2
On 11-Feb-19 09:37, Paul Berry wrote:
> However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence
> of four major roads on foot.
>
> What have others done in similar circumstances?
Driving round the roads with a GPSr in the car should get good enough
data to be going on with.

--
Cheers,
John

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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Paul Berry
OK, I'll give that a try this week and see how the GPS traces come out.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 10:31, John Aldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11-Feb-19 09:37, Paul Berry wrote:
> However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence
> of four major roads on foot.
>
> What have others done in similar circumstances?
Driving round the roads with a GPSr in the car should get good enough
data to be going on with.

--
Cheers,
John

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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

sk53.osm
Must say I feel a bit of a twit now; and perhaps I've saved Paul a journey.

OS Local Open Data, of course, has at least some of these roads, I have added the link from near Cross Keys Lane to the Rockingham Roundabout using the version I downloaded in October.

I'm obviously not the only person who forgets about these sources of open data. I suspect that because they are not visible in the same way as OS StreetView & Locator  that they get neglected. We could really do with an imagery layer based on OS OpenData Local.

HTH,

Jerry

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 11:07, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
OK, I'll give that a try this week and see how the GPS traces come out.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 10:31, John Aldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11-Feb-19 09:37, Paul Berry wrote:
> However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence
> of four major roads on foot.
>
> What have others done in similar circumstances?
Driving round the roads with a GPSr in the car should get good enough
data to be going on with.

--
Cheers,
John

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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Paul Berry
On 11/02/2019 11:06, Paul Berry wrote:
> OK, I'll give that a try this week and see how the GPS traces come out.

Drive around it a few times, if possible. GPS isn't the most accurate
when taking tight bends/roundabouts. Having multiple traces provides a
more accurate average.

Do you have a camera & mount? Always useful for recording road signs etc.

Cheers
DaveF


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Re: Notes (Was: We're missing changes...)

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Brian Prangle-2
I think we should be encouraging those who add notes to contribute directly to the do-ocracy that is OSM. Quite a few notes take longer to type than actually editing the problem they are highlighting.

If anybody (even anonymously) can add notes then users should be able to delete notes to discourage irrelevant notes such as 'The party's here!' (if a user resolves the note the URL still remains current).

A time base filtering of notes would be useful.

Cheers
DaveF

On 10/02/2019 12:11, Brian Prangle wrote:
Hi Jerry

You've spotted a major omission!  You can see  the road layout in Sentinel-2  Satellite Imagery ( if you've got good eyes - resolution is pretty poor). But you've raised a much wider question. I've always felt that we kind o f owe it to people who have bothered to alert us to errors via notes to fix them as quickly as we can ( and encourage them to enter more notes). However notes are undifferentiated as to what is major what is old etc which makes "patrolling" notes irksome. and so we fail to respond adequately I feel we need something a little more organised and the UK chapter has had a plan for a notes application to help with this but just doesn't have the resources in terms of time to complete it. Any help appreciated from teh UK community. Other ideas might be to have a future Quarterly Project deveoted to clearing up notes, and to have designated  "patrol" areas where OSMers check for major errors and we have a an alert mechanism.
I'll contact  Amazon Logistics offlist to see if they can resolve this

Regards

Brian

On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 at 10:41, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
* A message on the forum points out that the roads immediately to the east of Junction 36 have been substantially altered: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=65350


Aerial imagery, GPS traces, and ImproveOSM do not seem to offer any help. There are however traces on the Strava layers, but these are no longer suitable for making edits directly.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been picked up the Amazon Logistics editors as I would have thought this would be relevant to them.

Jerry


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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Paul Berry
In reply to this post by sk53.osm
Jerry,

No worries. I think I'll still pop down for a survey anyway because I now want to try the GPS + car trick and see how it turns out. We'll compare changesets later :)

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 13:45, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Must say I feel a bit of a twit now; and perhaps I've saved Paul a journey.

OS Local Open Data, of course, has at least some of these roads, I have added the link from near Cross Keys Lane to the Rockingham Roundabout using the version I downloaded in October.

I'm obviously not the only person who forgets about these sources of open data. I suspect that because they are not visible in the same way as OS StreetView & Locator  that they get neglected. We could really do with an imagery layer based on OS OpenData Local.

HTH,

Jerry

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 11:07, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
OK, I'll give that a try this week and see how the GPS traces come out.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 10:31, John Aldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11-Feb-19 09:37, Paul Berry wrote:
> However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence
> of four major roads on foot.
>
> What have others done in similar circumstances?
Driving round the roads with a GPSr in the car should get good enough
data to be going on with.

--
Cheers,
John

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Re: Notes (Was: We're missing changes...)

Great Britain mailing list
In reply to this post by Great Britain mailing list
On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 02:40:23PM +0000, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:
> I think we should be encouraging those who add notes to contribute directly
> to the do-ocracy that is OSM. Quite a few notes take longer to type than
> actually editing the problem they are highlighting.
>

I think that you underestimate the problem for someone who knows little
of computers, has no knowledge of coordinates and trigonomentry, and
has minimal understanding of maps.

I strongly suspect that most OSM contributers have far more education than average.

ael

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Re: Notes (Was: We're missing changes...)

Great Britain mailing list
I'm sorry to say, but I think that sounds patronising to both Note
writers & OSM editing software.

Computers (that's what smart phones are) are used to enter the notes &
map editing contributors need no knowledge of trig' & co-ords to draw
dots & lines.

'encourage' includes teaching users how to use OSM software.

Cheers
DaveF



On 11/02/2019 15:14, ael via Talk-GB wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 02:40:23PM +0000, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:
>> I think we should be encouraging those who add notes to contribute directly
>> to the do-ocracy that is OSM. Quite a few notes take longer to type than
>> actually editing the problem they are highlighting.
>>
> I think that you underestimate the problem for someone who knows little
> of computers, has no knowledge of coordinates and trigonomentry, and
> has minimal understanding of maps.
>
> I strongly suspect that most OSM contributers have far more education than average.
>
> ael
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb


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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Brian Prangle-2
In reply to this post by sk53.osm
Hi Jerry

OS Open Roads is a better source - I've added the remainder  - still some surveying to do though - like positioning the traffic signals

Regards

Brian

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 13:45, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Must say I feel a bit of a twit now; and perhaps I've saved Paul a journey.

OS Local Open Data, of course, has at least some of these roads, I have added the link from near Cross Keys Lane to the Rockingham Roundabout using the version I downloaded in October.

I'm obviously not the only person who forgets about these sources of open data. I suspect that because they are not visible in the same way as OS StreetView & Locator  that they get neglected. We could really do with an imagery layer based on OS OpenData Local.

HTH,

Jerry

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 11:07, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
OK, I'll give that a try this week and see how the GPS traces come out.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 10:31, John Aldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11-Feb-19 09:37, Paul Berry wrote:
> However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence
> of four major roads on foot.
>
> What have others done in similar circumstances?
Driving round the roads with a GPSr in the car should get good enough
data to be going on with.

--
Cheers,
John

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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

sk53.osm
In reply to this post by Paul Berry
Hi Paul,

Proper survey is of course best. 

I think that there's quite a lot more to sort out. For instance the most northerly link road coming off the M1 roundabout looks odd (I wonder if it's actually a new alignment), and I think the middle roundabout is a different shape now. According to Nick's MapthePaths site (which incidentally also uses newer OS raster data) there are quite a few missing PRoW in the area too.

I've just added the petrol station by the pub at Cross Keys Lane (its referred to in FHRS, Navads & in the bus stop data).

I'm currently looking at the OS OpenRoads shapefiles with a view to perhaps using them to spot missing roads.

Cheers

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 15:11, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jerry,

No worries. I think I'll still pop down for a survey anyway because I now want to try the GPS + car trick and see how it turns out. We'll compare changesets later :)

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 13:45, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Must say I feel a bit of a twit now; and perhaps I've saved Paul a journey.

OS Local Open Data, of course, has at least some of these roads, I have added the link from near Cross Keys Lane to the Rockingham Roundabout using the version I downloaded in October.

I'm obviously not the only person who forgets about these sources of open data. I suspect that because they are not visible in the same way as OS StreetView & Locator  that they get neglected. We could really do with an imagery layer based on OS OpenData Local.

HTH,

Jerry

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 11:07, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
OK, I'll give that a try this week and see how the GPS traces come out.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 10:31, John Aldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11-Feb-19 09:37, Paul Berry wrote:
> However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence
> of four major roads on foot.
>
> What have others done in similar circumstances?
Driving round the roads with a GPSr in the car should get good enough
data to be going on with.

--
Cheers,
John

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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Brian Prangle-2
OS OpenRoads is also good for missing road names especially on new housing developments. I've looked at Highways England  Delivery Plans 2018-19
where Annex 1 lists 108 road improvements either completed, underway or planned. Perhap we could use that as  a checklist to see if there are any other  missing  examples like M1J36. 

Regards

Brian

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 16:08, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Paul,

Proper survey is of course best. 

I think that there's quite a lot more to sort out. For instance the most northerly link road coming off the M1 roundabout looks odd (I wonder if it's actually a new alignment), and I think the middle roundabout is a different shape now. According to Nick's MapthePaths site (which incidentally also uses newer OS raster data) there are quite a few missing PRoW in the area too.

I've just added the petrol station by the pub at Cross Keys Lane (its referred to in FHRS, Navads & in the bus stop data).

I'm currently looking at the OS OpenRoads shapefiles with a view to perhaps using them to spot missing roads.

Cheers

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 15:11, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jerry,

No worries. I think I'll still pop down for a survey anyway because I now want to try the GPS + car trick and see how it turns out. We'll compare changesets later :)

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 13:45, SK53 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Must say I feel a bit of a twit now; and perhaps I've saved Paul a journey.

OS Local Open Data, of course, has at least some of these roads, I have added the link from near Cross Keys Lane to the Rockingham Roundabout using the version I downloaded in October.

I'm obviously not the only person who forgets about these sources of open data. I suspect that because they are not visible in the same way as OS StreetView & Locator  that they get neglected. We could really do with an imagery layer based on OS OpenData Local.

HTH,

Jerry

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 11:07, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
OK, I'll give that a try this week and see how the GPS traces come out.

Regards,
Paul

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 10:31, John Aldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11-Feb-19 09:37, Paul Berry wrote:
> However I'm not overly keen on attempting to map the confluence
> of four major roads on foot.
>
> What have others done in similar circumstances?
Driving round the roads with a GPSr in the car should get good enough
data to be going on with.

--
Cheers,
John

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Database of British and Irish hills

Silent Spike
I recently came across the DoBIH which you can see is licensed under CC BY 3.0.

This could be a valuable source of accurate height and position information for "natural = peak" nodes in the UK + Ireland (maybe even an import candidate).

Would anyone be interested in requesting permission following the wiki guidelines? I'd do it myself, but it would probably be more professional coming from someone else.

Regards

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Re: Database of British and Irish hills

Silent Spike
On further thought I'll just go ahead and do it with my real email.

Will share the response here if/when it comes.

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 11:31 PM Silent Spike <[hidden email]> wrote:
I recently came across the DoBIH which you can see is licensed under CC BY 3.0.

This could be a valuable source of accurate height and position information for "natural = peak" nodes in the UK + Ireland (maybe even an import candidate).

Would anyone be interested in requesting permission following the wiki guidelines? I'd do it myself, but it would probably be more professional coming from someone else.

Regards

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Re: Database of British and Irish hills

Adam Snape
In reply to this post by Silent Spike
Hi,

Sadly, despite the licence I think that much of the positional and (especially) the height information is unsuitable for OSM as some of it is derived from OS mapping (or otherwise from published lists themselves derived from OS Mapping) http://www.hills-database.co.uk/database_notes.html#mapinfo_gb
and thus the OS could legitimately claim a violation of their database right.

If they were able to licence the raw GPS/height submitted by walkers and others involved in the project then that could be useful.

Kind regards,

Adam

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 23:33, Silent Spike <[hidden email]> wrote:
I recently came across the DoBIH which you can see is licensed under CC BY 3.0.

This could be a valuable source of accurate height and position information for "natural = peak" nodes in the UK + Ireland (maybe even an import candidate).

Would anyone be interested in requesting permission following the wiki guidelines? I'd do it myself, but it would probably be more professional coming from someone else.

Regards
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Re: Database of British and Irish hills

Steven Horner
Hello,

Is that true though for the hills with details in the survey column, they have been measured with the instruments listed, eg. Abney level, Leica Disto D510, etc. If they don't have anything recorded in the survey column you would have to presume they are derived from OS mapping as there is no evidence to the contrary. Although does the survey equipment only record height or also position?

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 12:20 AM Adam Snape <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Sadly, despite the licence I think that much of the positional and (especially) the height information is unsuitable for OSM as some of it is derived from OS mapping (or otherwise from published lists themselves derived from OS Mapping) http://www.hills-database.co.uk/database_notes.html#mapinfo_gb
and thus the OS could legitimately claim a violation of their database right.

If they were able to licence the raw GPS/height submitted by walkers and others involved in the project then that could be useful.

Kind regards,

Adam

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 23:33, Silent Spike <[hidden email]> wrote:
I recently came across the DoBIH which you can see is licensed under CC BY 3.0.

This could be a valuable source of accurate height and position information for "natural = peak" nodes in the UK + Ireland (maybe even an import candidate).

Would anyone be interested in requesting permission following the wiki guidelines? I'd do it myself, but it would probably be more professional coming from someone else.

Regards
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Re: Database of British and Irish hills

Silent Spike
Good catch there Adam 🤔 Does this suggest they themselves are violating OS licenses? Their database is referenced on wikipedia a bit, could be quite the licensing rabbit hole.

Regarding your point Steven, I did notice this in the section linked by Adam:

Decimal heights from LIDAR can be identified by the absence of an entry in the Survey field.

Which links to the following description of the survey field where your questions appear to be answered.


On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 7:28 AM Steven Horner <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Is that true though for the hills with details in the survey column, they have been measured with the instruments listed, eg. Abney level, Leica Disto D510, etc. If they don't have anything recorded in the survey column you would have to presume they are derived from OS mapping as there is no evidence to the contrary. Although does the survey equipment only record height or also position?

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 12:20 AM Adam Snape <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Sadly, despite the licence I think that much of the positional and (especially) the height information is unsuitable for OSM as some of it is derived from OS mapping (or otherwise from published lists themselves derived from OS Mapping) http://www.hills-database.co.uk/database_notes.html#mapinfo_gb
and thus the OS could legitimately claim a violation of their database right.

If they were able to licence the raw GPS/height submitted by walkers and others involved in the project then that could be useful.

Kind regards,

Adam

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 23:33, Silent Spike <[hidden email]> wrote:
I recently came across the DoBIH which you can see is licensed under CC BY 3.0.

This could be a valuable source of accurate height and position information for "natural = peak" nodes in the UK + Ireland (maybe even an import candidate).

Would anyone be interested in requesting permission following the wiki guidelines? I'd do it myself, but it would probably be more professional coming from someone else.

Regards
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