We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

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Re: Database of British and Irish hills

Andy Townsend
On 11/02/2019 23:31, Silent Spike wrote:
I recently came across the DoBIH which you can see is licensed under CC BY 3.0.


At least one user claims already asked for permission to use this data:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36758689

(I've not seen anything public from that source though, and of course whether they gave permission doesn't address whether some of the data has actually come from another source first, such as the OS).

Best Regards,

Andy




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Re: Database of British and Irish hills

Silent Spike
I got in touch with Chris Crocker who is listed on the DoBIH homepage as a contact (and as it turns out is a very friendly and knowledgeable person). I'm quoting here his initial response (with permission to share it) to further discussion:

We would be happy to see DoBIH data used in OpenStreetMap. One of the motivations behind the creation of the DoBIH in 2001 was to resolve conflicting sources of information on the web by providing a database that we hoped would be definitive. We've had some success as two-thirds of hillwalking websites and all the current smartphone apps take data from the DoBIH.

I don't have a problem with signing your document but I'll run it past the other editors.

I don't believe you need any other permissions to use data from the DoBIH. OS maps, being creative works, are subject to Crown copyright and OS requires an acknowledgement for their reuse, but I have always understood that heights and grid references are scientific fact and as such are not copyrightable. Certainly there are hundreds of commercial publications in the hillwaking world that tabulate such data. None of those that I've read do more than mention OS maps as the source of their data. The OS data we use is derived from the maps on geograph.org.uk which gives OS mapping at all scales from 1:250,000 to 1:10,000. According to the site the Geograph maps are licensed under the OS OpenSpace Developer Agreement. I note that your Contributors page credits Ordnance Survey OpenData. Other heights and grid references are derived from the Environmental Agency's LIDAR surveys which are freely available on the DEFRA platform, from detailed hill surveys conducted by ourselves and third parties who supply data to us, and from numerous walkers who submit 10-figure grid references (these are responsible for over 60% of summit GRs). We acknowledge all sources and contributors in the Database Notes as you have observed.

You might have noticed that our popular Hill Bagging website, which hosts the interactive version of the database, recently added links to OSM on each hill's data page. See for example http://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?qu=S&rf=278

I expect the DoBIH could contribute much to OSM, but personally I am too busy maintaining the DoBIH to do so myself! I probably speak for the other editors too. I believe one of our users, who goes under the name of Talkytoaster on your forum, has contributed to OSM for many years.

Regards

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM Andy Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11/02/2019 23:31, Silent Spike wrote:
I recently came across the DoBIH which you can see is licensed under CC BY 3.0.


At least one user claims already asked for permission to use this data:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36758689

(I've not seen anything public from that source though, and of course whether they gave permission doesn't address whether some of the data has actually come from another source first, such as the OS).

Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Ed Loach-2
In reply to this post by Paul Berry
Paul wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> No worries. I think I'll still pop down for a survey anyway because I now want to
> try the GPS + car trick and see how it turns out. We'll compare changesets later :)

Much of Clacton was originally mapped using that method, when there was no imagery covering the area.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/EdLoach/traces/page/79
When imagery and OS opendata became available it was usually pretty close. I was using (and still use) a Locosys GT-31.

I have seen areas where the uploaded traces and the OSM roads seem to follow the pavement in the imagery and suspect it was mapped by a walker who hadn't adjusted for not walking down the middle of the road (I'm not talking a constant offset here as it depended which side of the roads they were walking).

Accuracy will depend on the receiver and signal reception.

Ed


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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Warin
On 14/02/19 03:42, Ed Loach wrote:

> Paul wrote:
>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> No worries. I think I'll still pop down for a survey anyway because I now want to
>> try the GPS + car trick and see how it turns out. We'll compare changesets later :)
> Much of Clacton was originally mapped using that method, when there was no imagery covering the area.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/EdLoach/traces/page/79
> When imagery and OS opendata became available it was usually pretty close. I was using (and still use) a Locosys GT-31.
>
> I have seen areas where the uploaded traces and the OSM roads seem to follow the pavement in the imagery and suspect it was mapped by a walker who hadn't adjusted for not walking down the middle of the road (I'm not talking a constant offset here as it depended which side of the roads they were walking).

Same applies for car traces. Best to average multiple trips in both directions.

>
> Accuracy will depend on the receiver and signal reception.

Yep. Multiple trips can help with everything but reception problems caused by local obstructions (buildings, cliffs etc.




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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Paul Berry
I intend to take a spin around the linked roundabouts this evening and try to capture a trace or two...

Regards,
Paul

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 21:00, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 14/02/19 03:42, Ed Loach wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> No worries. I think I'll still pop down for a survey anyway because I now want to
>> try the GPS + car trick and see how it turns out. We'll compare changesets later :)
> Much of Clacton was originally mapped using that method, when there was no imagery covering the area.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/EdLoach/traces/page/79
> When imagery and OS opendata became available it was usually pretty close. I was using (and still use) a Locosys GT-31.
>
> I have seen areas where the uploaded traces and the OSM roads seem to follow the pavement in the imagery and suspect it was mapped by a walker who hadn't adjusted for not walking down the middle of the road (I'm not talking a constant offset here as it depended which side of the roads they were walking).

Same applies for car traces. Best to average multiple trips in both directions.

>
> Accuracy will depend on the receiver and signal reception.

Yep. Multiple trips can help with everything but reception problems caused by local obstructions (buildings, cliffs etc.




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Re: We're missing changes to M1 Junction 36 which have apparently been in place for a year.

Paul Berry
I adjusted the map from a trace I obtained this evening: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/67238911

Regards,
Paul

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 12:44, Paul Berry <[hidden email]> wrote:
I intend to take a spin around the linked roundabouts this evening and try to capture a trace or two...

Regards,
Paul

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 21:00, Warin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 14/02/19 03:42, Ed Loach wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> No worries. I think I'll still pop down for a survey anyway because I now want to
>> try the GPS + car trick and see how it turns out. We'll compare changesets later :)
> Much of Clacton was originally mapped using that method, when there was no imagery covering the area.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/EdLoach/traces/page/79
> When imagery and OS opendata became available it was usually pretty close. I was using (and still use) a Locosys GT-31.
>
> I have seen areas where the uploaded traces and the OSM roads seem to follow the pavement in the imagery and suspect it was mapped by a walker who hadn't adjusted for not walking down the middle of the road (I'm not talking a constant offset here as it depended which side of the roads they were walking).

Same applies for car traces. Best to average multiple trips in both directions.

>
> Accuracy will depend on the receiver and signal reception.

Yep. Multiple trips can help with everything but reception problems caused by local obstructions (buildings, cliffs etc.




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