a new DEM-File Option

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a new DEM-File Option

Frank.Stinner
Hi,

i have find with a lot of "trial and error" a algorithm to create
DEM-Files for a Height-Profil. You can find the description (in german)
at https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build/blob/master/DEM-Daten.pdf

With this data we can for example draw a track in mapsource or basemap
and we at once the Height-Profil of our track. At second, the map looks
like better.

I have create a experimental program called BuildDEMFile :) to build
this files. Experimental means, the encoder is for exploring the
algorithm but not for speed. You can find the programit at
https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build.

It is possible, that there minor bugs, but i have it successfull testet
for 2 different germany-maps.

I have a wish:
Can you in mkgmap insert a new option, for example --dem with path to
DEM-files, and include these files in the join-process for the
IMG-files? So far only joined the LBL-, NET-, NOD-, RGN- and TRE-File.
Also should be set the dem-flag in TDB-File.
If so, i can build the DEM-Files with area-size from the splitter-file
areas.list. I hope thats the same like in the TRE-Files?

That would be a little bit easier then my fiddly way:
split the ready IMG-files, build the DEM-files and then join the files
to new IMG-files. And at last i must change the dem-flag in the TDB-File.

with best regards
Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Gerd Petermann
Hi Frank,

that sounds great, thanks for sharing the information. I don't think that we need a new option for this,
my understanding is that we need some new code in src\uk\me\parabola\mkgmap\combiners\FileInfo.java  so that it handles files with extension .DEM.
I'll see if I can find out what exactly we need over the weekend.

Gerd

________________________________________
Von: mkgmap-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Frank.Stinner <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Oktober 2017 18:30:48
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: [mkgmap-dev] a new DEM-File Option

Hi,

i have find with a lot of "trial and error" a algorithm to create
DEM-Files for a Height-Profil. You can find the description (in german)
at https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build/blob/master/DEM-Daten.pdf

With this data we can for example draw a track in mapsource or basemap
and we at once the Height-Profil of our track. At second, the map looks
like better.

I have create a experimental program called BuildDEMFile :) to build
this files. Experimental means, the encoder is for exploring the
algorithm but not for speed. You can find the programit at
https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build.

It is possible, that there minor bugs, but i have it successfull testet
for 2 different germany-maps.

I have a wish:
Can you in mkgmap insert a new option, for example --dem with path to
DEM-files, and include these files in the join-process for the
IMG-files? So far only joined the LBL-, NET-, NOD-, RGN- and TRE-File.
Also should be set the dem-flag in TDB-File.
If so, i can build the DEM-Files with area-size from the splitter-file
areas.list. I hope thats the same like in the TRE-Files?

That would be a little bit easier then my fiddly way:
split the ready IMG-files, build the DEM-files and then join the files
to new IMG-files. And at last i must change the dem-flag in the TDB-File.

with best regards
Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Gerd Petermann
In reply to this post by Frank.Stinner
Hi Frank,

sorry, I did not find much until now because I was distracted with some mapping work. My first simple approach is probably not enough.
I did not yet try your program because I don't have a c# dev system. I also did not find much information about the location of the DEM flag. If you know more, please let me know.
Do you plan to maintain the program or do you think the algo should be integrated in mkgmap?

My understanding is that you can calculate the DEM tiles once and keep them because SRTM data doesn't change often.
So, I assume a service like that on http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl would have to calc the DEM tiles for all continents once in a while
and  merge it with the tiles generated from OSM data.
Is that correct or do we have to calc DEM tiles with exactly the same bounds as the OSM tiles?

Gerd

________________________________________
Von: mkgmap-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Frank.Stinner <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Oktober 2017 18:30:48
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: [mkgmap-dev] a new DEM-File Option

Hi,

i have find with a lot of "trial and error" a algorithm to create
DEM-Files for a Height-Profil. You can find the description (in german)
at https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build/blob/master/DEM-Daten.pdf

With this data we can for example draw a track in mapsource or basemap
and we at once the Height-Profil of our track. At second, the map looks
like better.

I have create a experimental program called BuildDEMFile :) to build
this files. Experimental means, the encoder is for exploring the
algorithm but not for speed. You can find the programit at
https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build.

It is possible, that there minor bugs, but i have it successfull testet
for 2 different germany-maps.

I have a wish:
Can you in mkgmap insert a new option, for example --dem with path to
DEM-files, and include these files in the join-process for the
IMG-files? So far only joined the LBL-, NET-, NOD-, RGN- and TRE-File.
Also should be set the dem-flag in TDB-File.
If so, i can build the DEM-Files with area-size from the splitter-file
areas.list. I hope thats the same like in the TRE-Files?

That would be a little bit easier then my fiddly way:
split the ready IMG-files, build the DEM-files and then join the files
to new IMG-files. And at last i must change the dem-flag in the TDB-File.

with best regards
Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

popej
In reply to this post by Frank.Stinner
Hi,

Frank, thanks for your work. Your analysis of DEM headers looks good to
me, I have done similar task for gmaptool. Yours is of course more
detailed. I haven't looked at your program yet, but I hope it can create
usable data.

Gerd, there are 2 flags in TDB. One is for DEM, other for using contours
for calculating height profiles. See file tdbfmt/HeaderBlock.java, you
already have both in code. I think the meaning of these flags in mkgmap
is swapped, but I could be wrong.

When adding DEM to a tile, area of DEM can probably be bigger than tile,
I have seen some examples, when people were using DEM from Garmin maps
that way. DEM subfile can't have more layers than TRE but I think less
layers should work.

When creating a map with DEM for PC, overview map should include DEM
too. This could be a DEM with empty data, gmaptool can create that kind
of DEM.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej
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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Frank Stinner-2
Hi,

at first:
yes i mean the DEM-flag in TDB-file like Andrzej Popowski wrote.

at second:
unfortunally it seems, that the corner left-top for TRE-file and
DEM-file should be the same. The height-data organized in subtiles with
64x64 points. The most right sub-tile is a problem, but my workaround
is, to use a normal tile with 64 points width. That's why, the DEM is at
most a little bit widend then the TRE.
The data in a sub-tile are organized as a bitstream. That's why, we can
not split a subtile in parts.
I belive, we must "compile" a DEM for anything TRE new.

at third:
Yes, the best way is, to build in the algorithm in mkgmap. But i'm not
familiar with java. It would be useful, if anybody translate my
description (my german is a little bit better than my english :).
For easy test:
builddemfile --dem=12345678.dem --hgtpath=path2zipped_hgt_files
--tre=12345678.tre --dlon=0.00027761
I build the program with the MS-Visual-Studio 2015.

at fourthly:
I build also a DEM-file for the overview-map, but with --dlon=0.005.

at fifthly:
Probably can a DEM-file several Zoomlevel. But for Mapsourec/Basecamp it
is not necessary. It seems, we need that for a GPS-Device. My Oregon
show DEM only for Zoom <= 800m.


Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Gerd Petermann
Hi Frank,

okay, seems to be more work. Don't know if I am just getting old but I have no idea where to start.
We know a few demo maps which contain DEM data. Now we also have your doc and the demo program.
I am not familiar with c# and I don't have Microsoft Studio, but I think there are free versions for this as well.
I used to maintain some  c/c++ programs so I guess I should be able to dig into this again, but it will take a while.
My only advantage is that I am german and therefore able to read your doc and the comments in the source ;-)

I seem to remember that someone described how to extract DEM data from a gmapsupp and merge it into his own map,
that's why I assumed that it should be possible to calculdate this only once in a while.
I'd really prefer that solution, but this is a different problem.

I hope I get into this during the next weeks, but as of now I think it might take some months before we have this in mkgmap :-(

Gerd
________________________________________
Von: mkgmap-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Frank Stinner <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 18:56:04
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] a new DEM-File Option

Hi,

at first:
yes i mean the DEM-flag in TDB-file like Andrzej Popowski wrote.

at second:
unfortunally it seems, that the corner left-top for TRE-file and
DEM-file should be the same. The height-data organized in subtiles with
64x64 points. The most right sub-tile is a problem, but my workaround
is, to use a normal tile with 64 points width. That's why, the DEM is at
most a little bit widend then the TRE.
The data in a sub-tile are organized as a bitstream. That's why, we can
not split a subtile in parts.
I belive, we must "compile" a DEM for anything TRE new.

at third:
Yes, the best way is, to build in the algorithm in mkgmap. But i'm not
familiar with java. It would be useful, if anybody translate my
description (my german is a little bit better than my english :).
For easy test:
builddemfile --dem=12345678.dem --hgtpath=path2zipped_hgt_files
--tre=12345678.tre --dlon=0.00027761
I build the program with the MS-Visual-Studio 2015.

at fourthly:
I build also a DEM-file for the overview-map, but with --dlon=0.005.

at fifthly:
Probably can a DEM-file several Zoomlevel. But for Mapsourec/Basecamp it
is not necessary. It seems, we need that for a GPS-Device. My Oregon
show DEM only for Zoom <= 800m.


Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Waxy
Hi,

About DEM:
http://pinns.co.uk/osm/demlook.html
http://pinns.co.uk/osm/dem.html

Not tested…

Steph

Le 24/10/2017 à 09:52, Gerd Petermann a écrit :

> Hi Frank,
>
> okay, seems to be more work. Don't know if I am just getting old but I have no idea where to start.
> We know a few demo maps which contain DEM data. Now we also have your doc and the demo program.
> I am not familiar with c# and I don't have Microsoft Studio, but I think there are free versions for this as well.
> I used to maintain some  c/c++ programs so I guess I should be able to dig into this again, but it will take a while.
> My only advantage is that I am german and therefore able to read your doc and the comments in the source ;-)
>
> I seem to remember that someone described how to extract DEM data from a gmapsupp and merge it into his own map,
> that's why I assumed that it should be possible to calculdate this only once in a while.
> I'd really prefer that solution, but this is a different problem.
>
> I hope I get into this during the next weeks, but as of now I think it might take some months before we have this in mkgmap :-(
>
> Gerd
> ________________________________________
> Von: mkgmap-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Frank Stinner <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 18:56:04
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] a new DEM-File Option
>
> Hi,
>
> at first:
> yes i mean the DEM-flag in TDB-file like Andrzej Popowski wrote.
>
> at second:
> unfortunally it seems, that the corner left-top for TRE-file and
> DEM-file should be the same. The height-data organized in subtiles with
> 64x64 points. The most right sub-tile is a problem, but my workaround
> is, to use a normal tile with 64 points width. That's why, the DEM is at
> most a little bit widend then the TRE.
> The data in a sub-tile are organized as a bitstream. That's why, we can
> not split a subtile in parts.
> I belive, we must "compile" a DEM for anything TRE new.
>
> at third:
> Yes, the best way is, to build in the algorithm in mkgmap. But i'm not
> familiar with java. It would be useful, if anybody translate my
> description (my german is a little bit better than my english :).
> For easy test:
> builddemfile --dem=12345678.dem --hgtpath=path2zipped_hgt_files
> --tre=12345678.tre --dlon=0.00027761
> I build the program with the MS-Visual-Studio 2015.
>
> at fourthly:
> I build also a DEM-file for the overview-map, but with --dlon=0.005.
>
> at fifthly:
> Probably can a DEM-file several Zoomlevel. But for Mapsourec/Basecamp it
> is not necessary. It seems, we need that for a GPS-Device. My Oregon
> show DEM only for Zoom <= 800m.
>
>
> Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Frank Stinner-2
In reply to this post by Gerd Petermann
Hi Gerd,

mit builddemfile.exe (z.Z.
https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build/blob/master/BuildDEMFile/bin/BuildDEMFile.exe)
kann man sich beliebige DEM-Dateien erzeugen. Diese werden genauso wie
TRE-, RGN- usw. Dateien in die IMG-Datei eingebunden.

Ich verwende die frei verwendbare "Community"-Version von MS Visual 2015.

Als Zwischenlösung könnte die Aufnahme einer zusätzlichen Option dienen.
Es wird, hoffentlich, sowieso noch weitere Erkenntnisse zur Verwendung
mehrerer Zoom-Level für GPS-Geräte geben. Im Moment ist es deshalb
einfacher, an einem Programm wie builddemfile weiter zu testen.

Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Gerd Petermann
Hi Frank,

okay, with that exe file I was able to generate my first map with hill shading :-)
I used splitter to split bremen.osm.pbf and something like
java ... -jar mkgmap.jar --index --route --gmapi -c template.args
to create the directory with the data in gmapi format because this creates the files that your program requires.
Next I created a small script mak.cmd which calls your program for each tile:
setlocal
set hgtpath=f:\osm\GroundTruth-1.8.740.17\Cache\Dem\Srtm3\
rem java -Xmx6000m -jar d:\mkgmap\dist\mkgmap.jar -c d:\dbg\dev-addr.opt --max-jobs --gmapi -c e:\osm_out_work\bremen\20161121_165912\template.args
cd "OSM map.gmap\Product1"
for /D %%i in (6324*.*) do (
        ..\..\BuildDEMFile.exe -d %%i\%%i.DEM --hgtpath=%hgtpath% --tre=%%i\%%i.TRE --dlon=0.00027761
)

Finally I copied the directory OSM map.gmap into directory c:\ProgramData\Garmin\Maps where Mapsource expects gmapi data.
I could have created the data in that directory, but I prefer the extra copy step because I often forget to stop Mapsource.
I did not change mkgmap for that.

Unfortunately Mapsource and Basecamp don't "want" to create a gmapsupp for this data. They both claim that my USB stick has not enough memory
with this weird message "The map set is approximately 5.0 MB, but only 1310.8 MB is available in the destination."

Maybe one of the JaVaWa tools is able to create a gmapsupp for this?

Gerd
________________________________________
Von: mkgmap-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Frank Stinner <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2017 20:41:30
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] a new DEM-File Option

Hi Gerd,

mit builddemfile.exe (z.Z.
https://github.com/FSofTlpz/Garmin-DEM-Build/blob/master/BuildDEMFile/bin/BuildDEMFile.exe)
kann man sich beliebige DEM-Dateien erzeugen. Diese werden genauso wie
TRE-, RGN- usw. Dateien in die IMG-Datei eingebunden.

Ich verwende die frei verwendbare "Community"-Version von MS Visual 2015.

Als Zwischenlösung könnte die Aufnahme einer zusätzlichen Option dienen.
Es wird, hoffentlich, sowieso noch weitere Erkenntnisse zur Verwendung
mehrerer Zoom-Level für GPS-Geräte geben. Im Moment ist es deshalb
einfacher, an einem Programm wie builddemfile weiter zu testen.

Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

popej
Hi Gerd,

 > Unfortunately Mapsource and Basecamp don't "want" to create a
gmapsupp for this data.

Probably TDB error. TDB should be updated to include references for DEM
subfiles.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej.
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Re: a new DEM-File Option

nwillink
In reply to this post by Frank.Stinner
Hi Frank  

Your superb program works a real treat - What an amazing feat to have more
or less deciphered the DEM sub file . I can now give the whole of the UK a
proper DEM look!

Thanks Gerd for providing us with a script as I would have been completely
lost despite the help file.

Unfortunately I too get this odd comment about mapset approx (42mb) but only
27.8 gig available !

At the moment , I'n not too fussed as DEM files tend to darken the GPS
display , in my opinion.

I tried setting different flags in the tdb but to no avail !

I suspect there is a length block issue in the DEM file itself which is
ignored by Basecamp & Mapsource and only used when creating a gmapsupp.

thanks again

Nick





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Re: a new DEM-File Option

popej
Hi,

 > Unfortunately I too get this odd comment about mapset approx (42mb)
 > but only 27.8 gig available !

Try to use gmaptool to re-create TDB file for this mapset. I can't test
now, but I think it should help.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej
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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Frank Stinner-2
In reply to this post by Gerd Petermann
Hi Gerd,

i have seen this strange message today too. If i have only 1 Zoomlevel
(it's enough for mapsource/basecamp), there is no message. That's why, i
believe that is not a problem with the TDB. (Of course, in the TDB need
set the DEM-flag and list the DEM-files.)

I see today, that for my gps-device (oregon 600) are more zoomlevels
necessary. 1 zoomlevel is only enough for max. 800m-zoom. Maybe, we need
maplevel - 1 zoomlevels for all zooms (?).

When i build direkt a device-IMG with DEM-files with more zoomlevels, my
oregon shows them all. (I add simply to all tile-IMG's the DEM-files and
then i pack all files together.)

But the reason for the senseless error-message from mapsource is obscure.

I will make some further tests in the next days.

Frank

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Re: a new DEM-File Option

ligfietser


Hi Frank,

Your tool is great, thanks for implementing this. I have tried it on the latest OFM Benelux map. The tool is complaining about missing DEM tiles (I've downloaded it from http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/Coverage%20map%20viewfinderpanoramas_org3.htm


I noticed those missing tiles in the Netherlands, it also produces grey empty tiles, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76rScFomSWo


Any idea how to solve this?

Is it also possible to make a DEM map from a direectory with the regular img tiles (not the gmap version) and how?



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Re: a new DEM-File Option

nwillink

The same happens with me but only when I set my level to higher than medium.


On 25/10/2017 18:28, lig fietser wrote:


Hi Frank,

Your tool is great, thanks for implementing this. I have tried it on the latest OFM Benelux map. The tool is complaining about missing DEM tiles (I've downloaded it from http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/Coverage%20map%20viewfinderpanoramas_org3.htm


I noticed those missing tiles in the Netherlands, it also produces grey empty tiles, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76rScFomSWo


Any idea how to solve this?

Is it also possible to make a DEM map from a direectory with the regular img tiles (not the gmap version) and how?




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Re: a new DEM-File Option

Gerd Petermann
Hi all,
while Frank is improving his program I'll try to implement his findings in the already existing display tool program DemDisplay, see
http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=display&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fsrc%2Ftest%2Fdisplay%2FDemDisplay.java

Up to now it only displays some header infos, I should now be able to code a decoder for the bitstreams. This will help to debug and find special cases.

Gerd
________________________________________
Von: mkgmap-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von osm@pinns <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017 20:12:52
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] a new DEM-File Option

The same happens with me but only when I set my level to higher than medium.

On 25/10/2017 18:28, lig fietser wrote:


Hi Frank,

Your tool is great, thanks for implementing this. I have tried it on the latest OFM Benelux map. The tool is complaining about missing DEM tiles (I've downloaded it from http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/Coverage%20map%20viewfinderpanoramas_org3.htm


I noticed those missing tiles in the Netherlands, it also produces grey empty tiles, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76rScFomSWo


<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76rScFomSWo>

Any idea how to solve this?

Is it also possible to make a DEM map from a direectory with the regular img tiles (not the gmap version) and how?




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Re: a new DEM-File Option

ligfietser

And how about those missing dem tiles? See

https://s1.postimg.org/197j92hi3z/missing_DEM_data.jpg


I have downloaded the NASA DEM data from

http://www.javawa.nl/srtm/index.php?lang=en




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Re: a new DEM-File Option

nwillink

Hi Minko


If you export a  small section from the openstreetmap area which doesn't have a tile then it should

tell you the name of the missing .hgt?


You can then search for it on


https://e4ftl01.cr.usgs.gov/SRTM/


On 26/10/2017 08:26, lig fietser wrote:

And how about those missing dem tiles? See

https://s1.postimg.org/197j92hi3z/missing_DEM_data.jpg


I have downloaded the NASA DEM data from

http://www.javawa.nl/srtm/index.php?lang=en





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Re: a new DEM-File Option

ligfietser


Hi Nick
I dont know what you mean, but the missing part is the whole NL above N52.2 and also everything western from E5.0
So that means
N53E004.hgt -N53E007.hgt are not processed and also the tiles
N52E004.hgt-N52E007.hgt are missing in the map.
They are available in the DEM folder.


Van: mkgmap-dev <[hidden email]> namens osm@pinns <[hidden email]>
Verzonden: donderdag 26 oktober 2017 00:43
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [mkgmap-dev] a new DEM-File Option
 

Hi Minko


If you export a  small section from the openstreetmap area which doesn't have a tile then it should

tell you the name of the missing .hgt?


You can then search for it on


https://e4ftl01.cr.usgs.gov/SRTM/



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Re: a new DEM-File Option

nwillink
@ Frank


Like Minko I'm getting a missing tile see dos -


C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Maps\topo lux
dem.gmap\Product1>(e:\BuildDEMFile.exe -d 66
666667\66666667.DEM --hgtpath=f:\mapup4\dem\LUX_DEM\ --tre=66666667\
66666667.TRE --dlon=0.00027761  )
BuildDEMFile, Version vom 24.10.2017, Copyright © FSofT 2017
Daten aus der TRE-Datei '66666667\66666667.TRE' gelesen
1 Zoomlevel
Höhen für 5° .. 6° / 49° .. 50° eingelesen
Weder die Datei 'f:\mapup4\dem\LUX_DEM\n49e006.hgt' noch die Datei '
f:\mapup4\dem\LUX_DEM\n49e006.hgt.zip' existiert.
erzeuge 2851 x 951 Höhenwerte ...
Daten 2851 x 951, Min. 238, Max. 474 für Zoomlevel 0
Kachelanzahl 44 x 15 (rechte Spalte 99 breit, untere Zeile 55 hoch)
Rand links 5.712890625°, oben 49.7021484375°
Pixelgröße 0.00027761° x 0.00027761°
8 Threads
encodiere Kacheln ...
.............
660 Kacheln encodiert

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