a plea to armchair mappers

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a plea to armchair mappers

Richard Welty-2
please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.

yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.

i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
to, you know, read the README.

i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.

thanks,
   richard

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Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

kristenk
We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using older imagery.

Kristen

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________________________________________
From: Richard Welty <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.

yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.

i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
to, you know, read the README.

i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.

thanks,
   richard

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Re: a plea to armchair mappers

Florian Lohoff-2
In reply to this post by Richard Welty-2
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:42:29AM -0400, Richard Welty wrote:

> please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
> that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
>
> yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
> in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
> aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
> but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.
>
> i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
> imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
> to, you know, read the README.
>
> i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
> you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
> of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
> of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
> and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
> mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
> contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.
In those cases i am typically quick in trying to revert the changesets
in mind. And be shure to send emails to affected mappers and/or comment
on the changesets.

And you could also set a note on that area mentioning the
out-of-date'ness of sat images.

Flo
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Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

Richard Welty-2
In reply to this post by kristenk
On 6/11/15 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen wrote:
> We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using older imagery.
>
i am not persuaded that these armchair mappers are paying attention. unless
there's a big warning "this imagery is X years old" that can't be
ignored, i think
the information will frequently be ignored.

i'd like a tag that we could use that has some editor support, it might
be the
case that  all we need is a pop up dialog when there's a README tag that
says
something like "Read this before committing: <text of README tag>"

richard

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Re: a plea to armchair mappers

Richard Welty-2
In reply to this post by Florian Lohoff-2
On 6/11/15 10:07 AM, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:42:29AM -0400, Richard Welty wrote:
>> please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
>> that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
>>
> In those cases i am typically quick in trying to revert the changesets
> in mind. And be shure to send emails to affected mappers and/or comment
> on the changesets.
i didn't catch the change set early enough, and much of what was
in it was non-controversial and worthwhile.

i did send a note, haven't gotten a reply to it yet. don't know if i will,
response rates for the OSM messaging system run below 50%
> And you could also set a note on that area mentioning the
> out-of-date'ness of sat images.
>
yeah, that was what the README tags were for. they sort to the top
in the tag lists in Potlatch and JOSM, which is why i use them in
preference to note or description, both of which are easily overlooked.

richard

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Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

Mike Thompson
In reply to this post by Richard Welty-2


On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Richard Welty <[hidden email]> wrote:

i'd like a tag that we could use that has some editor support, it might
be the
case that  all we need is a pop up dialog when there's a README tag that
says
something like "Read this before committing: <text of README tag>"
I like this suggestion.  I have not noticed any of my work undone by armchair mappers, but it is something that has crossed my mind as there are several trails that I have surveyed that have been rerouted recently, and that rerouting is not reflected in the Bing imagery.

Mike

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Re: a plea to armchair mappers

Charlotte Wolter
In reply to this post by Richard Welty-2

         How many "armchair mappers" know what a README
tag is or means? And, how would they see it, unless they examine
they tags? And, most casual mappers don't touch the tags
because it all looks too techy.

Charlotte


At 07:43 AM 6/11/2015, you wrote:

>On 6/11/15 10:07 AM, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:42:29AM -0400, Richard Welty wrote:
> >> please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
> >> that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
> >>
> > In those cases i am typically quick in trying to revert the changesets
> > in mind. And be shure to send emails to affected mappers and/or comment
> > on the changesets.
>i didn't catch the change set early enough, and much of what was
>in it was non-controversial and worthwhile.
>
>i did send a note, haven't gotten a reply to it yet. don't know if i will,
>response rates for the OSM messaging system run below 50%
> > And you could also set a note on that area mentioning the
> > out-of-date'ness of sat images.
> >
>yeah, that was what the README tags were for. they sort to the top
>in the tag lists in Potlatch and JOSM, which is why i use them in
>preference to note or description, both of which are easily overlooked.
>
>richard
>
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>  Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
>  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

kristenk
In reply to this post by kristenk

I will take a look at this.  Thanks Bryan.

 

Kristen

 

 

---

Kristen Kam

OSM Profile à http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KristenK

 

From: Bryan Housel [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 7:55 AM
To: Kam, Kristen
Cc: Richard Welty; Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

 

There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery alongside the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most tile providers, but we can get it from Bing in the response header.

 

Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at implementing this.

 

Thanks, Bryan

 

 

 

On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using older imagery.

Kristen

Sent from OWA on Android
________________________________________
From: Richard Welty <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.

yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.

i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
to, you know, read the README.

i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.

thanks,
  richard

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OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
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Re: a plea to armchair mappers

Stewart C. Russell
In reply to this post by Charlotte Wolter

On Jun 11, 2015 2:46 PM, "Charlotte Wolter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>         How many "armchair mappers" know what a README
> tag is or means?

Well, if taginfo is correct, there are less than 200 in the whole map. The chances of ever meeting one are pretty slim.

Stewart


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