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Hi,
I was looking at the wiki for antennas
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dantenna
I made some additions to the definition and added some photos
etc.
It is still rather sparse. I'd like to be able to further
define what the antenna is.
Unfortunately on the German wiki there is the use of
antenna:type .. with a confusing set of values.
(eg communication, special, parabolic_satellit,
parabolic_satellit_uplink,
radar)
These appear to be the use of the antenna.
Perhaps this could be antenna:use=radio/TV/radar/wifi/cell_phone
I don't think 'communication' is a good tag - any antenna
performs the function of communication.
Similar for satellite (note last 'e' for British English), that
might be all you can tell from the configuration and direction
of the antenna but does not define its use.
Then the 'type' of antenna .. better described as
antenna:configuration ?
Values could be monopole, dipole, yagi, dish ... yes dish
will have sub tags for the feed system etc.
Broad thoughts?
Not after detail at this stage but antenna:type to others
such as;
antenna:use?
antenna:configuration?
antenna:mode=tx/rx/2way for the direction of communication?
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
|
|
|
Hello Warin,
I'm afraid we're opening a can of worms here, but you're right:
something needs to be fixed, and here below I'm trying to
contribute with some considerations...
The Wiki [1]
gives a very good definition of what an antenna is: an "interface
between radio waves and electrical signals in a transmission
line".
That interface can work in either or both directions:
- receiving (RX, radio waves to electrical signal),
like the TV antenna on the roof of an house or a
radio-telescope.
- transmitting (TX, electrical signal to radio waves),
like the broadcasting antenna of a commercial TV or the
transmitting antenna of a VOR radio direction navigation system.
- receiving/transmitting (RX/TX, both directions),
like those on the tower of a mobile telephone cell or a radar.
Not all antennas are communication antennas:
communication antennas are for conveying information ("meaning")
from one party to another (and I would add "in a bidirectional
way" or we should call it a "broadcasting antenna", but
I'm not totally sure about this latter specification). Some
other kind of non-communication antenna: the radio-telescope, the
VOR, the radar.
For the above I think an antenna:usage=* tag could be a
correct tag, with values like: communication, broadcasting,
radio-telescope, navigation, radar, measurement, ham_radio (there
is not such a thing as an "ham radio" antenna type, per se: hams
make uses of a lot of different antenna types).
As for the "type" of antennas, there are a lot:
monopole, dipole, mast radiator, whip, Yagi, Log-periodic, random
wire, loop, quad, rhombic, helical, beverage, ground plane,
collinear, traveling wave, curtain, horn, dish, etc., etc.
Furthermore there are some inaccuracies in the above ( a "dish"
antenna is actually a system built from two
components: a reflector, the dish, and the true antenna located in
the focus of the dish reflector) and possible complications ( you
can have an array of antennas, like the array of four helical
antennas pictured in the wiki page).
I'm really unsure if it is worth to specify antenna types.
Beside, I think most mappers will be unable to correctly identify
antenna types.
A radome is not an antenna, but the
weatherproof enclosure that protect an antenna.
In the wiki there is a lot of talking (and some proposed tags)
about "transponders", but the term is used in an absolutely
inaccurate and wrong meaning: a transponder is "is a device
that, upon receiving a signal, emits a different
signal in response" [2]. What in
the wiki is called a transponder can probably be more accurately
described as a "repeater" [3]. Unhappily
man_made=communications_transponder is already in use for
absolutely wrong features, as in [4]
where it it is used to tag a cell tower.
Enough, for now, but of course I'm open to the discussion and I'm
ready to contribute for what I can (I'm not an expert in the
field but I am a former radio amateur and a former
telephone company's CTO).
Cheers!
Sergio
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dantenna
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeater
[4]
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2199511457#map=19/44.98542/9.01678
On 2018-11-24 02:47, Warin wrote:
Hi,
I was looking at the wiki for antennas
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dantenna
I made some additions to the definition and added some
photos etc.
It is still rather sparse. I'd like to be able to further
define what the antenna is.
Unfortunately on the German wiki there is the use of
antenna:type .. with a confusing set of values.
(eg communication, special, parabolic_satellit,
parabolic_satellit_uplink,
radar)
These appear to be the use of the antenna.
Perhaps this could be
antenna:use=radio/TV/radar/wifi/cell_phone
I don't think 'communication' is a good tag - any antenna
performs the function of communication.
Similar for satellite (note last 'e' for British English),
that might be all you can tell from the configuration and
direction of the antenna but does not define its use.
Then the 'type' of antenna .. better described as
antenna:configuration ?
Values could be monopole, dipole, yagi, dish ... yes dish
will have sub tags for the feed system etc.
Broad thoughts?
Not after detail at this stage but antenna:type to others
such as;
antenna:use?
antenna:configuration?
antenna:mode=tx/rx/2way for the direction of communication?
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
|
|
|
On 24/11/18 21:29, Sergio Manzi wrote:
Hello Warin,
I'm afraid we're opening a can of worms here, but you're right:
something needs to be fixed, and here below I'm trying to
contribute with some considerations...
Thanks... rather than 'fixed', guided might be a better term.
'Type' just provides for too much freedom in the responses.
The Wiki [1]
gives a very good definition of what an antenna is: an "interface
between radio waves and electrical signals in a transmission
line".
Well it is a better attempt. But needs improvement (I can say that
as I wrote it :) ) " interface between radio waves in free
space and electrical signals in a transmission line".
Consider a wave guide - the field there could be described by some
as a radio wave .. but not in free space. And of course a wave guide
is a transmission line.
That interface can work in either or both directions:
- receiving (RX, radio waves to electrical signal),
like the TV antenna on the roof of an house or a
radio-telescope.
- transmitting (TX, electrical signal to radio
waves), like the broadcasting antenna of a commercial TV
or the transmitting antenna of a VOR radio direction
navigation system.
- receiving/transmitting (RX/TX, both directions),
like those on the tower of a mobile telephone cell or a radar.
Not all antennas are communication antennas:
communication antennas are for conveying information ("meaning")
from one party to another (and I would add "in a
bidirectional way" or we should call it a "broadcasting
antenna", but I'm not totally sure about this latter
specification). Some other kind of non-communication
antenna: the radio-telescope, the VOR, the radar.
Yep. Though communications can be one way e.g. a TV signal conveys
information, sometimes useful like a weather forecast. But I am
reluctant to put 'communication' down as a value - covers too many
things.
For the above I think an antenna:usage=* tag could be a
correct tag, with values like: communication, broadcasting,
radio-telescope, navigation, radar, measurement, ham_radio (there
is not such a thing as an "ham radio" antenna type, per se:
hams make uses of a lot of different antenna types).
As for the "type" of antennas, there are a lot:
monopole, dipole, mast radiator, whip, Yagi, Log-periodic,
random wire, loop, quad, rhombic, helical, beverage, ground
plane, collinear, traveling wave, curtain, horn, dish, etc.,
etc.
Biconical, biconilog, patch ... heaps of them. Some even describe
the matching .. a 'Roberts Dipole' for example. A 'quad' to me just
says 4 .. 4 of what? Helicals, bow ties, dipoles .. A 'phased array'
also does not say what the driving antennas are nor the number of
them.
Furthermore there are some inaccuracies in the above (a "dish"
antenna is actually a system built from two
components: a reflector, the dish, and the true antenna located
in the focus of the dish reflector) and possible
complications (you can have an array of antennas, like the
array of four helical antennas pictured in the wiki page).
A 'ground plane' is also a system of at least 2 components. And the
feed to the dish can be in several different locations...
antenna:reflector=dish/ground_plane/* ?
I'm really unsure if it is worth to specify antenna types.
Beside, I think most mappers will be unable to correctly
identify antenna types.
Unfortunately some mappers want to put these things down .. so
provision for that has to be made to avoid confusion.
Someone has also included polarisation in the types value .. so that
needs to be addressed too,
antenna:polarisation=vertical/horizontal/circular/circular_clockwise/circular_anticlockwise
should do.
A radome is not an antenna, but the
weatherproof enclosure that protect an antenna.
Sigh. Yep. But that is what mappers see and want to put down. Don't
know what to do with it yet. Similar to the dish problem, they see
the dish and want to put that down without going into the feed
detail or the true antenna. Some of the dishes are covered too so it
will not be easy to have mappers detail more than 'dish'.
antenna:enclosure=radome/* ?
Some microwave repeater antennas get covers - usually for snow
conditions.
In the wiki there is a lot of talking (and some proposed
tags) about "transponders", but the term is used in an
absolutely inaccurate and wrong meaning: a transponder is "is
a device that, upon receiving a signal, emits a
different signal in response" [2]. What
in the wiki is called a transponder can probably be more
accurately described as a "repeater" [3].
Unhappily man_made=communications_transponder is already in use
for absolutely wrong features, as in [4]
where it it is used to tag a cell tower.
Yep. Non experts tagging things as well as they know how.
Enough, for now, but of course I'm open to the discussion and
I'm ready to contribute for what I can (I'm not an expert in
the field but I am a former radio amateur and a former
telephone company's CTO).
Cheers!
Sergio
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dantenna
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeater
[4] https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2199511457#map=19/44.98542/9.01678
On 2018-11-24 02:47, Warin wrote:
Hi,
I was looking at the wiki for antennas
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dantenna
I made some additions to the definition and added some
photos etc.
It is still rather sparse. I'd like to be able to further
define what the antenna is.
Unfortunately on the German wiki there is the use of
antenna:type .. with a confusing set of values.
(eg communication, special, parabolic_satellit,
parabolic_satellit_uplink,
radar)
These appear to be the use of the antenna.
Perhaps this could be
antenna:use=radio/TV/radar/wifi/cell_phone
I don't think 'communication' is a good tag - any antenna
performs the function of communication.
Similar for satellite (note last 'e' for British
English), that might be all you can tell from the
configuration and direction of the antenna but does not
define its use.
Then the 'type' of antenna .. better described as
antenna:configuration ?
Values could be monopole, dipole, yagi, dish ... yes dish
will have sub tags for the feed system etc.
Broad thoughts?
Not after detail at this stage but antenna:type to others
such as;
antenna:use?
antenna:configuration?
antenna:mode=tx/rx/2way for the direction of
communication?
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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|
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM Warin < [hidden email]> wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas in my area. Well, they're pictures of masts but the antennas are sometimes discernible. Any idea for a good place to dump them so they can contribute to antenna/mast examples that people can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to you and you can decide what to do with them?
--
Paul
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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I’d been thinking about this lately while working on towers and radio telescopes. Towers can be tagged with tower:construction =dish and this is rendered as “satellite” dish sending or receiving waves, in the Openstreetmap-Carto style. Radio telescopes are now rendered as well. But there are some satellite uplink dishes mistagged as radio telescopes. Other tags in use are man_made=communications_dish and man_made=satellite_dish But neither is very well documented, I recall. I’d be happy to have a better way to tag these dishes. On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM Warin < [hidden email]> wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas in my area. Well, they're pictures of masts but the antennas are sometimes discernible. Any idea for a good place to dump them so they can contribute to antenna/mast examples that people can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to you and you can decide what to do with them?
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
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|
Hi all It would be great to use telecom=* instead of man_made or communications
Antennas is a difgicult topic to address in osm since there can be many of them at the same time. They should be distinguished from mast and supports since antennas are only devices
All the best
François Le sam. 24 nov. 2018 à 14:59, Joseph Eisenberg < [hidden email]> a écrit : I’d been thinking about this lately while working on towers and radio telescopes.
Towers can be tagged with tower:construction =dish and this is rendered as “satellite” dish sending or receiving waves, in the Openstreetmap-Carto style.
Radio telescopes are now rendered as well.
But there are some satellite uplink dishes mistagged as radio telescopes.
Other tags in use are man_made=communications_dish and man_made=satellite_dish
But neither is very well documented, I recall.
I’d be happy to have a better way to tag these dishes.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM Warin < [hidden email]> wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas in my area. Well, they're pictures of masts but the antennas are sometimes discernible. Any idea for a good place to dump them so they can contribute to antenna/mast examples that people can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to you and you can decide what to do with them?
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
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I like it!
To me it makes much more sense to tag telecom=BTS (Base
Transceiver Station, see [1])
than man_made:antenna + antenna:type=whatever.
But BTS is not indicated as possible value for telecom=* in the
wiki...
Cheers,
Sergio
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_transceiver_station
On 2018-11-24 15:22, François Lacombe
wrote:
Hi all
It would be great to use telecom=* instead of
man_made or communications
Antennas is a difgicult topic to address in osm
since there can be many of them at the same time. They should
be distinguished from mast and supports since antennas are
only devices
All the best
François
Le sam. 24 nov. 2018 à 14:59, Joseph Eisenberg
< [hidden email]> a
écrit :
I’d been
thinking about this lately while working on towers and radio
telescopes.
Towers can be tagged with tower:construction =dish and this is
rendered as “satellite” dish sending or receiving waves, in
the Openstreetmap-Carto style.
Radio telescopes are now rendered as well.
But there are some satellite uplink dishes mistagged as radio
telescopes.
Other tags in use are man_made=communications_dish and
man_made=satellite_dish
But neither is very well documented, I recall.
I’d be happy to have a better way to tag these dishes.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM Warin < [hidden email]>
wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas in my
area. Well, they're pictures of masts but the
antennas are sometimes discernible. Any idea for
a good place to dump them so they can
contribute to antenna/mast examples that people
can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to you and
you can decide what to do with them?
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
|
|
|
"BTS" is another object and differ from antennas since the antennas are connected to BTS/nodeB/eNodeB.
Both can be mapped with telecom=* and BTS will often get man_made=street_cabinet
Recently reviewed Telecom=service_device is suitable for "BTS" cabinets with telecom:medium=radio and aditional tags for 3GPP technology 2G/3G or LTE.
Several antennas can be fed by a single radio cabinet
François
I like it!
To me it makes much more sense to tag telecom=BTS (Base
Transceiver Station, see [1])
than man_made:antenna + antenna:type=whatever.
But BTS is not indicated as possible value for telecom=* in the
wiki...
Cheers,
Sergio
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_transceiver_station
On 2018-11-24 15:22, François Lacombe
wrote:
Hi all
It would be great to use telecom=* instead of
man_made or communications
Antennas is a difgicult topic to address in osm
since there can be many of them at the same time. They should
be distinguished from mast and supports since antennas are
only devices
All the best
François
Le sam. 24 nov. 2018 à 14:59, Joseph Eisenberg
< [hidden email]> a
écrit :
I’d been
thinking about this lately while working on towers and radio
telescopes.
Towers can be tagged with tower:construction =dish and this is
rendered as “satellite” dish sending or receiving waves, in
the Openstreetmap-Carto style.
Radio telescopes are now rendered as well.
But there are some satellite uplink dishes mistagged as radio
telescopes.
Other tags in use are man_made=communications_dish and
man_made=satellite_dish
But neither is very well documented, I recall.
I’d be happy to have a better way to tag these dishes.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM Warin < [hidden email]>
wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas in my
area. Well, they're pictures of masts but the
antennas are sometimes discernible. Any idea for
a good place to dump them so they can
contribute to antenna/mast examples that people
can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to you and
you can decide what to do with them?
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
|
|
|
So... how many tags will this node have, once you have tagged all
of its components?
From [1]:
A BTS is usually composed of:
- Transceiver (TRX)
- Provides transmission and reception of signals. It also
does sending and reception of signals to and from higher
network entities (like the base
station controller in mobile telephony).
- Power amplifier (PA)
- Amplifies the signal from TRX for transmission through
antenna; may be integrated with TRX.
- Combiner
- Combines feeds from several TRXs so that they could be
sent out through a single antenna. Allows for a reduction in
the number of antenna used.
- Multiplexer
- For separating sending and receiving signals to/from
antenna. Does sending and receiving signals through the same
antenna ports (cables to antenna).
- Antenna
- This is the structure that the BTS lies underneath; it can
be installed as it is or disguised in some way (Concealed cell sites).
- Alarm extension system
- Collects working status alarms of various units in the BTS
and extends them to operations and maintenance (O&M)
monitoring stations.
- Control function
- Controls and manages the various units of BTS, including
any software. On-the-spot configurations, status changes,
software upgrades, etc. are done through the control
function.
- Baseband receiver unit (BBxx)
- Frequency hopping, signal DSP.
Mapping each component (yes, the antenna too...) separatly
doesn't make much sense to me...
Sergio
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_transceiver_station
On 2018-11-24 17:59, François Lacombe
wrote:
"BTS" is another object and differ from antennas
since the antennas are connected to BTS/nodeB/eNodeB.
Both can be mapped with telecom=* and BTS will
often get man_made=street_cabinet
Recently reviewed Telecom=service_device is
suitable for "BTS" cabinets with telecom:medium=radio and
aditional tags for 3GPP technology 2G/3G or LTE.
Several antennas can be fed by a single radio
cabinet
François
I like it!
To me it makes much more sense to tag telecom=BTS (Base
Transceiver Station, see [1])
than man_made:antenna + antenna:type=whatever.
But BTS is not indicated as possible value for telecom=*
in the wiki...
Cheers,
Sergio
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_transceiver_station
On
2018-11-24 15:22, François Lacombe wrote:
Hi all
It would be great to use telecom=*
instead of man_made or communications
Antennas is a difgicult topic to address
in osm since there can be many of them at the same
time. They should be distinguished from mast and
supports since antennas are only devices
All the best
François
Le sam. 24 nov. 2018 à 14:59, Joseph
Eisenberg < [hidden email]>
a écrit :
I’d
been thinking about this lately while working on
towers and radio telescopes.
Towers can be tagged with tower:construction =dish and
this is rendered as “satellite” dish sending or
receiving waves, in the Openstreetmap-Carto style.
Radio telescopes are now rendered as well.
But there are some satellite uplink dishes mistagged
as radio telescopes.
Other tags in use are man_made=communications_dish and
man_made=satellite_dish
But neither is very well documented, I recall.
I’d be happy to have a better way to tag these dishes.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM
Warin < [hidden email]>
wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas
in my area. Well, they're pictures of masts
but the
antennas are sometimes discernible. Any
idea for a good place to dump them so they
can
contribute to antenna/mast examples that
people can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to
you and you can decide what to do with them?
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
|
|
|
And just to add to the confusion, there are usually three antennas per BTS, which cover ~120 degree sectors, so the RF power can be adjusted in each sector individually to give the desired amount of overlap with adjacent cells.
So in terms of physical things to map, we have at least locations, masts, cells, sectors, antennas, and base stations. And possibly microwave backhaul equipment.
On 2018-11-24 19:47, Sergio Manzi wrote:
So... how many tags will this node have, once you have tagged all of its components?
From [1]:
A BTS is usually composed of:
- Transceiver (TRX)
- Provides transmission and reception of signals. It also does sending and reception of signals to and from higher network entities (like the base station controller in mobile telephony).
- Power amplifier (PA)
- Amplifies the signal from TRX for transmission through antenna; may be integrated with TRX.
- Combiner
- Combines feeds from several TRXs so that they could be sent out through a single antenna. Allows for a reduction in the number of antenna used.
- Multiplexer
- For separating sending and receiving signals to/from antenna. Does sending and receiving signals through the same antenna ports (cables to antenna).
- Antenna
- This is the structure that the BTS lies underneath; it can be installed as it is or disguised in some way (Concealed cell sites).
- Alarm extension system
- Collects working status alarms of various units in the BTS and extends them to operations and maintenance (O&M) monitoring stations.
- Control function
- Controls and manages the various units of BTS, including any software. On-the-spot configurations, status changes, software upgrades, etc. are done through the control function.
- Baseband receiver unit (BBxx)
- Frequency hopping, signal DSP.
Mapping each component (yes, the antenna too...) separatly doesn't make much sense to me...
Sergio
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_transceiver_station
On 2018-11-24 17:59, François Lacombe wrote:
"BTS" is another object and differ from antennas since the antennas are connected to BTS/nodeB/eNodeB.
Both can be mapped with telecom=* and BTS will often get man_made=street_cabinet
Recently reviewed Telecom=service_device is suitable for "BTS" cabinets with telecom:medium=radio and aditional tags for 3GPP technology 2G/3G or LTE.
Several antennas can be fed by a single radio cabinet
François
I like it!
To me it makes much more sense to tag telecom=BTS (Base Transceiver Station, see [1]) than man_made:antenna + antenna:type=whatever.
But BTS is not indicated as possible value for telecom=* in the wiki...
Cheers,
Sergio
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_transceiver_station
On 2018-11-24 15:22, François Lacombe wrote:
Hi all
It would be great to use telecom=* instead of man_made or communications
Antennas is a difgicult topic to address in osm since there can be many of them at the same time. They should be distinguished from mast and supports since antennas are only devices
All the best
François
Le sam. 24 nov. 2018 à 14:59, Joseph Eisenberg < [hidden email]> a écrit : I'd been thinking about this lately while working on towers and radio telescopes.
Towers can be tagged with tower:construction =dish and this is rendered as "satellite" dish sending or receiving waves, in the Openstreetmap-Carto style.
Radio telescopes are now rendered as well.
But there are some satellite uplink dishes mistagged as radio telescopes.
Other tags in use are man_made=communications_dish and man_made=satellite_dish
But neither is very well documented, I recall.
I'd be happy to have a better way to tag these dishes.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM Warin < [hidden email]> wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas in my area. Well, they're pictures of masts but the
antennas are sometimes discernible. Any idea for a good place to dump them so they can
contribute to antenna/mast examples that people can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to you and you can decide what to do with them?
Tagging mailing list
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Tagging mailing list
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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On 25/11/18 01:50, Sergio Manzi wrote:
I like it!
To me it makes much more sense to tag telecom=BTS (Base
Transceiver Station, see [1])
than man_made:antenna + antenna:type=whatever.
But BTS is not indicated as possible value for telecom=* in the
wiki...
I am not advocating the use of man_made=antenna with or in place of
some other tag that already incorporates an antenna e.g
man_made=telescope, telescope:type=radio
I am saying that at present there are mappers using less than
precise tags with man_made=antenna and that needs to have some
guidance in order not to end up with a bigger mess than it already
is.
Cheers,
Sergio
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_transceiver_station
On 2018-11-24 15:22, François Lacombe
wrote:
Hi all
It would be great to use telecom=* instead of
man_made or communications
Antennas is a difgicult topic to address in
osm since there can be many of them at the same time. They
should be distinguished from mast and supports since
antennas are only devices
All the best
François
Le sam. 24 nov. 2018 à 14:59, Joseph Eisenberg
< [hidden email]>
a écrit :
I’d been
thinking about this lately while working on towers and radio
telescopes.
Towers can be tagged with tower:construction =dish and this
is rendered as “satellite” dish sending or receiving waves,
in the Openstreetmap-Carto style.
Radio telescopes are now rendered as well.
But there are some satellite uplink dishes mistagged as
radio telescopes.
Other tags in use are man_made=communications_dish and
man_made=satellite_dish
But neither is very well documented, I recall.
I’d be happy to have a better way to tag these dishes.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM Warin
< [hidden email]>
wrote:
I have some pictures of various antennas in my
area. Well, they're pictures of masts but the
antennas are sometimes discernible. Any idea
for a good place to dump them so they can
contribute to antenna/mast examples that people
can add to wiki pages as appropriate?
Worst case, you want me to mail them to you and
you can decide what to do with them?
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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|
A BTS as a device that doesn't include antennas since antennas are connected to it actually.
Like any antenna (even the microwave backhaul link antenna), a BTS is a device in the technical site. Pretty often, there are several BTS in a single site and several antennas can be fed by a single BTS.
It's almost impossible to map all this stuff in a single node. The place should be a closed area. Each BTS, masts, antennas should get their own node inside the closed area.
Coaxial cable schemes may be complex between active equipments (BTS/nodeB/eNodeB or RRU) and antennas, I'm not sure we'll be able to map this in OSM with a dedicated topology. Surveying for fenced perimeters, masts, BTS and antennas would be a really great achivement to begin with.
All the best
François _______________________________________________
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I am saying that at present there are mappers using less than
precise tags with man_made=antenna and that needs to have some
guidance in order not to end up with a bigger mess than it already
is.
This topic needs a proper proposal in the wiki to add several value to telecom=* key. Several months of work are needed to get a sustainable tagging model It's a good opportunity to improve telecom=* and clean up man_made.
Avoiding keys like antenna:type in favor of antenna:model or design or usage would be great.
François
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On 25/11/18 13:50, Graeme Fitzpatrick
wrote:
So in terms of physical
things to map, we have at least locations, masts,
cells, sectors, antennas,
Ahh, but is it all hanging off a mast, a tower or a pole?
:-)
No. Some antennas are mounted on the ground, some are mounted on
home roofs.
Take a look at the photos on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dantenna
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