bear box in campground ?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
28 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

Rob Savoye
On 8/21/19 5:17 PM, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> I agree with Martin. It's not good practice to use semicolons in the
> value of the main feature tag, like amenity=bbq;bear_box, because this
> is hard for database users to interpret with a simple algorithm.

  Actually I've found the opposite. Importing into Postgresql doesn't
support multiple tags of the same name. At least not when importing
using ogr. I do produce maps from Postgresql, and have no problem with
semi-colons. Course I'm using my own software for SQL queries. I'd be
curious what OsmAnd does when displaying 'tourism' POIs.

> At the proposal
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties)
> there are a list of property tags which are already approved or "de
> facto" in common use on camp_site (and camp_pitch) features, like
> this:

  I saw that, but they're proposed, so I've been trying to stick to
what's approved. I already do use many of the existing properties.

> Note that there are also feature tags for almost all of these, like:
> amenity=drinking_water
> amenity=recycling
> amenity=sanitary_dump_station
> amenity=toilets

  Using properties works fine for my purpose, and if it's ok to create a
new property 'bear_box=(yes,no)', I can do it that way. I'm not in a
hurry, so can also wait for the proposal to hopefully get approved.

> Hence: amenity=bear_box on it's own node, right at the location of the
> box. Or if you don't have that info or just want to say that "there is
> a bear box at this campground", you can add bear_box=yes/no to the
> tourism=camp_site

  So now it seems it'd be "bbq=yes', 'picnic_table=yes', 'bear_box'yes'.

        - rob -

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

Rob Savoye
In reply to this post by Paul Johnson-3
On 8/21/19 7:27 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:

>     For someone who is not familiar with the term 'bear box' it may
>     sound like bears are stored in there.
>     "Food storage box" might be better?

  Actually something like that is probably a better term. I think 'bear
box' only because that's the term I'm familiar with. 'Big Metal Box'
would be accurate too, but confusing.

  There's also bear proof trash cans, but I don't think that needs a tag.

        - rob -

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

Jan S


Am 22. August 2019 03:41:08 MESZ schrieb Rob Savoye <[hidden email]>:
>On 8/21/19 7:27 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>>     For someone who is not familiar with the term 'bear box' it may
>>     sound like bears are stored in there.
That would seem like a rather odd idea. Why would a bear be stored in a box, and even more so at a camping site?

>>     "Food storage box" might be better?
>
>  Actually something like that is probably a better term. I think 'bear
>box' only because that's the term I'm familiar with.

I find "bear box" a pretty instructive term. More generic terms don't seem to catch the idea of protecting food from animals quite as well. The boxes were developed against bears and thus got their named. Also, from my Jack London influenced imagination, I immediately understood what we're talking about here. Thus, I'd go for "bear box=yes/no", even in areas where there are no bears.

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

Joseph Eisenberg
I agree that bear_box is clearer. Most food storage is not bear-proof.

If there are other food storage options that are simply racoon-proof
or squirrel-proof, they can be tagged differently, but I'm not aware
of any of these.

On 8/22/19, JS <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Am 22. August 2019 03:41:08 MESZ schrieb Rob Savoye <[hidden email]>:
>>On 8/21/19 7:27 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
>>
>>>     For someone who is not familiar with the term 'bear box' it may
>>>     sound like bears are stored in there.
> That would seem like a rather odd idea. Why would a bear be stored in a box,
> and even more so at a camping site?
>
>>>     "Food storage box" might be better?
>>
>>  Actually something like that is probably a better term. I think 'bear
>>box' only because that's the term I'm familiar with.
>
> I find "bear box" a pretty instructive term. More generic terms don't seem
> to catch the idea of protecting food from animals quite as well. The boxes
> were developed against bears and thus got their named. Also, from my Jack
> London influenced imagination, I immediately understood what we're talking
> about here. Thus, I'd go for "bear box=yes/no", even in areas where there
> are no bears.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

AlaskaDave
Alaska, with its huge population of bears, has these bear-proof receptacles at all public campsites. I think bear_box will serve the purpose but it doesn't work for other types of animal-proof containers as Joseph pointed out. However, those other types are not very common, if they exist at all.

Still, if we want to allow for easy expansion of the tagging scheme then using waste_basket=bear-proof, for example, would help such future expansion.

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 12:36 AM Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree that bear_box is clearer. Most food storage is not bear-proof.

If there are other food storage options that are simply racoon-proof
or squirrel-proof, they can be tagged differently, but I'm not aware
of any of these.

On 8/22/19, JS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Am 22. August 2019 03:41:08 MESZ schrieb Rob Savoye <[hidden email]>:
>>On 8/21/19 7:27 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
>>
>>>     For someone who is not familiar with the term 'bear box' it may
>>>     sound like bears are stored in there.
> That would seem like a rather odd idea. Why would a bear be stored in a box,
> and even more so at a camping site?
>
>>>     "Food storage box" might be better?
>>
>>  Actually something like that is probably a better term. I think 'bear
>>box' only because that's the term I'm familiar with.
>
> I find "bear box" a pretty instructive term. More generic terms don't seem
> to catch the idea of protecting food from animals quite as well. The boxes
> were developed against bears and thus got their named. Also, from my Jack
> London influenced imagination, I immediately understood what we're talking
> about here. Thus, I'd go for "bear box=yes/no", even in areas where there
> are no bears.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


--
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

Paul Allen
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 18:43, Dave Swarthout <[hidden email]> wrote:

Still, if we want to allow for easy expansion of the tagging scheme then using waste_basket=bear-proof, for example, would help such future expansion.

How about bear_proof=yes which could be applied to food storage containers and waste
containers?  Ummm, we'd probably also need vermin_proof=yes for mice/rat proof
containers.

--
Paul


_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

Paul Johnson-3


On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 1:12 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 18:43, Dave Swarthout <[hidden email]> wrote:

Still, if we want to allow for easy expansion of the tagging scheme then using waste_basket=bear-proof, for example, would help such future expansion.

How about bear_proof=yes which could be applied to food storage containers and waste
containers?  Ummm, we'd probably also need vermin_proof=yes for mice/rat proof
containers.

This is why I offered the "hardened=yes" suggestion above. 

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: bear box in campground ?

Joseph Eisenberg
I've added amenity=bear_box (for the feature) and bear_box=yes (as a
property to add to campsites, caravan sites, camp pitches, etc) to the
proposal at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties
for now. i

If it turns out to be too controversial I can remove it for a separate
proposal, but I think this is a clear and simple way to tag these
features, since the ideas of tagging similar features that might not
be bear-proof are still hypothetical, and it's fine to use different
tags for different yet similar things.

On 8/24/19, Paul Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 1:12 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 18:43, Dave Swarthout <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Still, if we want to allow for easy expansion of the tagging scheme then
>>> using waste_basket=bear-proof, for example, would help such future
>>> expansion.
>>>
>>
>> How about bear_proof=yes which could be applied to food storage
>> containers
>> and waste
>> containers?  Ummm, we'd probably also need vermin_proof=yes for mice/rat
>> proof
>> containers.
>>
>
> This is why I offered the "hardened=yes" suggestion above.
>

_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
12