building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

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building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

Tomasz Wójcik
Currently, we (de facto) have 2 tags for the same feature, which is not a proper state.


I think we should choose the correct one andadd warning moving mappers to the proper one on OSM Wiki.

Building=grandstand is not perfect for me, beacuse building=* tag suggest that is some kind of typical building (with walls, roof, etc.) and most of the OSM styles render building=grandstand like every other buildings, where you can go inside, which may be confusing with grandstands areas. On the other hand we have leisure=bleachers , when the "bleachers" word is propably used only in USA.

What do you think about it?

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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

sabas88


On Sat, 14 Jul 2018, 08:26 Tomasz Wójcik, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently, we (de facto) have 2 tags for the same feature, which is not a proper state.


I think we should choose the correct one andadd warning moving mappers to the proper one on OSM Wiki.

Building=grandstand is not perfect for me, beacuse building=* tag suggest that is some kind of typical building (with walls, roof, etc.) and most of the OSM styles render building=grandstand like every other buildings, where you can go inside, which may be confusing with grandstands areas. On the other hand we have leisure=bleachers , when the "bleachers" word is propably used only in USA.

What do you think about it?

Well, also building=roof doesn't have walls :)
Bleachers as the wiki says is American English, while the tags usually are British English. Taginfo shows bleachers used mainly in USA.

Ciao,
Stefano

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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

Warin
In reply to this post by Tomasz Wójcik
To me a grandstand has a roof and probably a back wall.

A 'bleacher' has no roof nor walls .. it is simply seating totally exposed to the elements.


On 14/07/18 16:23, Tomasz Wójcik wrote:
Currently, we (de facto) have 2 tags for the same feature, which is not a proper state.


I think we should choose the correct one andadd warning moving mappers to the proper one on OSM Wiki.

Building=grandstand is not perfect for me, beacuse building=* tag suggest that is some kind of typical building (with walls, roof, etc.) and most of the OSM styles render building=grandstand like every other buildings, where you can go inside, which may be confusing with grandstands areas. On the other hand we have leisure=bleachers , when the "bleachers" word is propably used only in USA.

What do you think about it?


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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Tomasz Wójcik


sent from a phone

> On 14. Jul 2018, at 08:23, Tomasz Wójcik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Building=grandstand is not perfect for me, beacuse building=* tag suggest that is some kind of typical building (with walls, roof, etc.)


according to the description and the picture, grandstand has a roof.


> and most of the OSM styles render building=grandstand like every other buildings, where you can go inside, which may be confusing with grandstands areas. On the other hand we have leisure=bleachers , when the "bleachers" word is propably used only in USA.


bleachers according to the picture do not have a roof but are simply raised rows of seating?


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

lsces
In reply to this post by Tomasz Wójcik
On 14/07/18 07:23, Tomasz Wójcik wrote:
> Building=grandstand is not perfect for me, beacuse building=* tag
> suggest that is some kind of typical building (with walls, roof, etc.)
> and most of the OSM styles render building=grandstand like every other
> buildings, where you can go inside, which may be confusing with
> grandstands areas. On the other hand we have leisure=bleachers , when
> the "bleachers" word is propably used only in USA.
>
> What do you think about it?
Many of these are a compromise, but I would expect more tags not less.
The problem with these two are they span different 'domains' as a number
of others do. A built structure is a 'building', and there are a range
of structures covering seating, so grandstand, covered_seating,
open_seating ... move the leisure tag to a more appropriate tag? In
addition, many of these can well be temporary structures for a
particular event but present for some time perhaps every year.

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

Marc Gemis
In reply to this post by Tomasz Wójcik
You asked the exact same question in April 2018 on the tagging mailing
list, not ?

I like the response Philip Barnes gave you back then:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-April/035662.html.
bleachers = open structures, without walls, grandstands with walls,
roofs and often for professional sports.

m.
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 8:26 AM Tomasz Wójcik <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Currently, we (de facto) have 2 tags for the same feature, which is not a proper state.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building=grandstand
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure=bleachers
>
> I think we should choose the correct one andadd warning moving mappers to the proper one on OSM Wiki.
>
> Building=grandstand is not perfect for me, beacuse building=* tag suggest that is some kind of typical building (with walls, roof, etc.) and most of the OSM styles render building=grandstand like every other buildings, where you can go inside, which may be confusing with grandstands areas. On the other hand we have leisure=bleachers , when the "bleachers" word is propably used only in USA.
>
> What do you think about it?
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

Warin
The important part of that past talk thread was the question as to changing the wiki grandstand definition to say that it must have a roof rather than usually has a roof.

Unfortunately both the Oxford Dictionary and Wikipedia say 'usually roofed'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandstand


So what 'grandstands' have no roof???

And then how are they distinguished from 'bleachers'???



  On 14/07/18 20:36, Marc Gemis wrote:

> You asked the exact same question in April 2018 on the tagging mailing
> list, not ?
>
> I like the response Philip Barnes gave you back then:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-April/035662.html.
> bleachers = open structures, without walls, grandstands with walls,
> roofs and often for professional sports.
>
> m.
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 8:26 AM Tomasz Wójcik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Currently, we (de facto) have 2 tags for the same feature, which is not a proper state.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building=grandstand
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure=bleachers
>>
>> I think we should choose the correct one andadd warning moving mappers to the proper one on OSM Wiki.
>>
>> Building=grandstand is not perfect for me, beacuse building=* tag suggest that is some kind of typical building (with walls, roof, etc.) and most of the OSM styles render building=grandstand like every other buildings, where you can go inside, which may be confusing with grandstands areas. On the other hand we have leisure=bleachers , when the "bleachers" word is propably used only in USA.
>>
>> What do you think about it?
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

Tomasz Wójcik
In reply to this post by Marc Gemis
Thank you all for response.

Basing on most voices, the output is to left building=grandstand for
tribunes with roof or walls and leisure=bleachers for open-air ones.
I'll add proper information and examples on a OSM Wiki pages of both
tags.


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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

Philip Barnes
Bleachers, at least based on watching American movies, are a simple open frame structure that you can walk underneath and see through the gaps.

A grandstand, even with no roof, is a building. The seating area is on a solid floor. Underneath you will often find changing rooms, toilets, food stalls.

Phil (trigpoint)

On 16 July 2018 07:01:40 BST, "Tomasz Wójcik" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you all for response.

Basing on most voices, the output is to left building=grandstand for
tribunes with roof or walls and leisure=bleachers for open-air ones.
I'll add proper information and examples on a OSM Wiki pages of both
tags.




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--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: building=grandstand vs leisure=bleachers

dieterdreist
2018-07-16 10:38 GMT+02:00 Philip Barnes <[hidden email]>:
A grandstand, even with no roof, is a building. The seating area is on a solid floor. Underneath you will often find changing rooms, toilets, food stalls.


no roof above the seating, but "underneath" would have a roof.

Cheers,
Martin

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