healthcare=sample_collection

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healthcare=sample_collection

Tagging mailing list
There are many places that collect samples of blood/urine/etc for medical purposes.

In many cases tagging such point as healthcare=laboratory is not a good idea as
laboratory is somewhere else (or mapper is unable to check where laboratory exists)

Unlike healthcare=laboratory such points are typically accessible to public and
mappable

I am not aware about any good tag for that - what about healthcare=sample_collection ?

With definition "places where samples of blood/urine/etc are collected (possibly also taken)
for purpose of analyzing them. Useful when tagged on standalone locations, should not
be added to places such as amenity=hospital. For donating blood see healthcare=blood_donation"

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Stefan Tauner
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:45:26 +0100 (CET)
Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There are many places that collect samples of blood/urine/etc for medical purposes.
>
> In many cases tagging such point as healthcare=laboratory is not a good idea as
> laboratory is somewhere else (or mapper is unable to check where laboratory exists)
>
> Unlike healthcare=laboratory such points are typically accessible to public and
> mappable
>
> I am not aware about any good tag for that - what about healthcare=sample_collection ?
>
> With definition "places where samples of blood/urine/etc are collected (possibly also taken)
> for purpose of analyzing them. Useful when tagged on standalone locations, should not
> be added to places such as amenity=hospital. For donating blood see healthcare=blood_donation"

Another important point regarding distinction to other tags is:
Are medical images samples?
I'd argue no since no physical parts of the patients remain on site
after they left. OTOH, after physical samples are processed the only
thing that remains of them is data as well. From the patient's PoV
there is not too much difference. They go to one location for an
examination and get some data and diagnosis later.

Therefore, one could combine this sample_collection and the currently
discussed medical_imaging/radiology tag to some sort of dedicated
examination/data sampling tag and differentiate them with subtags. I
don't advocate for that - just writing my thoughts out.
Does anybody see any advantages or applications for that?

--
Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

voschix
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What are these places like?
Do they only collect samples that you "produce" yourself (stool, urine) or are these places where a nurse takes your blood samples?
Are they named or are these a kind of refrigerated letter boxes.
Sorry if these questions appear silly, but I don't know what you are describing. I am used to biological sample collection being an accessory service within other types of healthcare places: hospitals, clinics, ERs, medical centres, doctors', ecc


Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 12:47, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are many places that collect samples of blood/urine/etc for medical purposes.

In many cases tagging such point as healthcare=laboratory is not a good idea as
laboratory is somewhere else (or mapper is unable to check where laboratory exists)

Unlike healthcare=laboratory such points are typically accessible to public and
mappable

I am not aware about any good tag for that - what about healthcare=sample_collection ?

With definition "places where samples of blood/urine/etc are collected (possibly also taken)
for purpose of analyzing them. Useful when tagged on standalone locations, should not
be added to places such as amenity=hospital. For donating blood see healthcare=blood_donation"
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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Brian M. Sperlongano

Do they only collect samples that you "produce" yourself (stool, urine) or are these places where a nurse takes your blood samples?

For the ones that I am familiar with, both of these are true.  They often have "medical laboratory" in the name, though usually the actual place where the samples are analyzed is somewhere else. 

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

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In reply to this post by voschix



Jan 11, 2021, 13:37 by [hidden email]:
What are these places like?
Do they only collect samples that you "produce" yourself (stool, urine) or are these places where a nurse takes your blood samples?
Typically both, for some samples you bring what you prepared by yourself, some
(for example blood) have typically a medical worker taking it.
Are they named or are these a kind of refrigerated letter boxes.
Branded, typically room or rooms with space for

(1) place where you give confirmation that
testing is paid for (refunded by government/insurance) or you pay for it
(2) some area for waiting
(3) sample taking location

Though I guess that letter boxes exist or will exist.
Sorry if these questions appear silly, but I don't know what you are describing. I am used to biological sample collection being an accessory service within other types of healthcare places: hospitals, clinics, ERs, medical centres, doctors', ecc
Most of sample taking probably happens in such places, but there are
also separate places dedicated to solely that.

Plus, some Covid-specific sample-taking locations appeared.

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

voschix
I am familiar with places that look like those shown in the photos, but these places would be part of other structures, where I would not tag them explicitly, as I would assume them to be present, like hospitals, medical centres, and similar.
On the other hand, at least around here, doctors' don't offer the service, but I know that in Germany some do, but limited to their own patients (they often do also have small labs on site)
So maybe the correct approach is to propose tagging for both cases
  • stand-alone points of collection
  • inside other structure
This would also require explicitly state which categories of healthcare places do offer the service by default.


Also the difference between manned and unmanned woul need to be added to the stand-alone ones.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 14:20, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> wrote:



Jan 11, 2021, 13:37 by [hidden email]:
What are these places like?
Do they only collect samples that you "produce" yourself (stool, urine) or are these places where a nurse takes your blood samples?
Typically both, for some samples you bring what you prepared by yourself, some
(for example blood) have typically a medical worker taking it.
Are they named or are these a kind of refrigerated letter boxes.
Branded, typically room or rooms with space for

(1) place where you give confirmation that
testing is paid for (refunded by government/insurance) or you pay for it
(2) some area for waiting
(3) sample taking location

Though I guess that letter boxes exist or will exist.
Sorry if these questions appear silly, but I don't know what you are describing. I am used to biological sample collection being an accessory service within other types of healthcare places: hospitals, clinics, ERs, medical centres, doctors', ecc
Most of sample taking probably happens in such places, but there are
also separate places dedicated to solely that.

Plus, some Covid-specific sample-taking locations appeared.
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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Andrew Harvey-3
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Sounds reasonable. Further tagging can be added later to specify collection types, but at a high level this is good.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 22:47, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are many places that collect samples of blood/urine/etc for medical purposes.

In many cases tagging such point as healthcare=laboratory is not a good idea as
laboratory is somewhere else (or mapper is unable to check where laboratory exists)

Unlike healthcare=laboratory such points are typically accessible to public and
mappable

I am not aware about any good tag for that - what about healthcare=sample_collection ?

With definition "places where samples of blood/urine/etc are collected (possibly also taken)
for purpose of analyzing them. Useful when tagged on standalone locations, should not
be added to places such as amenity=hospital. For donating blood see healthcare=blood_donation"
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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Stefan Tauner

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 22:27, Stefan Tauner <[hidden email]> wrote:

Are medical images samples?

Therefore, one could combine this sample_collection and the currently
discussed medical_imaging/radiology tag to some sort of dedicated
examination/data sampling tag and differentiate them with subtags.

I can see what you're talking about but think they would be best as two separate features.

Around here at least, if you need an x-ray taken to go to the x-ray place, but if you need to get a blood test, you go to the collection centre, & they are run by two different companies.

Thanks

Graeme


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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by voschix



On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 22:39, Volker Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
are these a kind of refrigerated letter boxes.

I've never seen a "drop-off" arrangement for samples, & I don't think they could have one, as the storage requirements for various types of sample are just too different?

& here, at least, the ID requirements for every sample are very strict, so there'd be no way that just dropping a sample in a box would be allowed!

Thanks

Graeme


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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Joseph Eisenberg
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This sounds good. It is more specific than "test_collection".

We could mention that sample_collection=yes/no could be added to clinics, hospitals etc if they provide this service.

It would also be nice to have a specific tag for blood vs other samples, since drawing blood requires more specialized training.

It's formally called "phlebotomy" but we usually say "blood draw" in US English. Is that also the common term in UK English?

So you could also add phlebotomy=yes/no or blood_draw=yes/no as a property to indicate if this is a service that is available.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 3:47 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are many places that collect samples of blood/urine/etc for medical purposes.

In many cases tagging such point as healthcare=laboratory is not a good idea as
laboratory is somewhere else (or mapper is unable to check where laboratory exists)

Unlike healthcare=laboratory such points are typically accessible to public and
mappable

I am not aware about any good tag for that - what about healthcare=sample_collection ?

With definition "places where samples of blood/urine/etc are collected (possibly also taken)
for purpose of analyzing them. Useful when tagged on standalone locations, should not
be added to places such as amenity=hospital. For donating blood see healthcare=blood_donation"
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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Paul Allen
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 19:00, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's formally called "phlebotomy" but we usually say "blood draw" in US English. Is that also the common term in UK English?

Not that I've heard.  Take a blood sample.  Give a blood sample.  Variants
like that, involving "blood sample."  Formally, phlebotomy.

--
Paul


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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Joseph Eisenberg
So this could be added as a property with:

blood_sample_collection=yes/no

Or sample_collection=blood;urine;feces;etc.

Does that sound ok in International / British English?

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 1:30 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 19:00, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's formally called "phlebotomy" but we usually say "blood draw" in US English. Is that also the common term in UK English?

Not that I've heard.  Take a blood sample.  Give a blood sample.  Variants
like that, involving "blood sample."  Formally, phlebotomy.

--
Paul

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Paul Allen


On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 21:38, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
So this could be added as a property with:

blood_sample_collection=yes/no

Or sample_collection=blood;urine;feces;etc.

Does that sound ok in International / British English?

Neither seems right for blood.

For urine, sure.  i've been handed or mailed sample bottles for urine
to return to the GP reception or local hospital (when we still had one).
So those places collect samples, although they don't come out and
get them, so even "collection" is a bit of a misnomer.  They receive
samples.

For faeces, not so much.  I've had sample scrapers mailed to
me for return by post (check for blood in stool as a sign of
colon cancer).  Never been told to poop in a pot and hand it
in at the GP.  So not sure about those places collecting or
receiving samples.

For blood, nope.  I've never been given a bottle to fill with my
blood at home, by myself.  Those samples aren't collected,
or received when I hand them over, they're taken.

Given all the other medical terminology in healthcare, phlebotomy
seems fine.  I know where to go when they want to draw some
phleb.

--
Paul


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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Graeme Fitzpatrick
In reply to this post by Joseph Eisenberg

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 07:30, Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 19:00, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's formally called "phlebotomy" but we usually say "blood draw" in US English. Is that also the common term in UK English?

Not that I've heard.  Take a blood sample.  Give a blood sample.  Variants
like that, involving "blood sample."

Or blood test, as in "I've got to get a blood test done"

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 07:38, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
So this could be added as a property with:

blood_sample_collection=yes/no

Or sample_collection=blood;urine;feces;etc.

I'd be a bit concerned with trying to define what samples are collected at any centre, purely because there are so many possible options?

Personally, I'd just leave it as healthcare=sample_collection.

Thanks

Graeme


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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Joseph Eisenberg
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
The problem with "phlebotomy" is that it translates automatically to "phlebotomia" in Spanish which means "bloodletting" like they used to do in the 1700s.

And in French it translates to phlébotomie: "Incision d'une veine pour pratiquer une saignée." " Incision of a vein to perform bleeding."

So I expect many people will be confused by this tag, or not know what to look for.

Hence the suggestion for "blood draw".

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 2:12 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 21:38, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
So this could be added as a property with:

blood_sample_collection=yes/no

Or sample_collection=blood;urine;feces;etc.

Does that sound ok in International / British English?

Neither seems right for blood.

For urine, sure.  i've been handed or mailed sample bottles for urine
to return to the GP reception or local hospital (when we still had one).
So those places collect samples, although they don't come out and
get them, so even "collection" is a bit of a misnomer.  They receive
samples.

For faeces, not so much.  I've had sample scrapers mailed to
me for return by post (check for blood in stool as a sign of
colon cancer).  Never been told to poop in a pot and hand it
in at the GP.  So not sure about those places collecting or
receiving samples.

For blood, nope.  I've never been given a bottle to fill with my
blood at home, by myself.  Those samples aren't collected,
or received when I hand them over, they're taken.

Given all the other medical terminology in healthcare, phlebotomy
seems fine.  I know where to go when they want to draw some
phleb.

--
Paul

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Tagging mailing list
I am not convinced that sample_collection tag would be useful...

I expect that it would change quickly and would not be really useful
- what kind of info gives you knowledge whatever they do some
kind of tests that use say urine if you know nothing more?

You anyway need to check info about specific test - even
single virus will have multiple different tests (igG antibodies,
igM antibodies, yes/no boolean tests, test that give result on a
scale, test that requires multiple days of waiting, quick acting tests
etc etc - that is just based on what I accidentally learned during
single visit)

Jan 14, 2021, 23:47 by [hidden email]:
The problem with "phlebotomy" is that it translates automatically to "phlebotomia" in Spanish which means "bloodletting" like they used to do in the 1700s.

And in French it translates to phlébotomie: "Incision d'une veine pour pratiquer une saignée." " Incision of a vein to perform bleeding."

So I expect many people will be confused by this tag, or not know what to look for.

Hence the suggestion for "blood draw".

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 2:12 PM Paul Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 21:38, Joseph Eisenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
So this could be added as a property with:

blood_sample_collection=yes/no

Or sample_collection=blood;urine;feces;etc.

Does that sound ok in International / British English?

Neither seems right for blood.

For urine, sure.  i've been handed or mailed sample bottles for urine
to return to the GP reception or local hospital (when we still had one).
So those places collect samples, although they don't come out and
get them, so even "collection" is a bit of a misnomer.  They receive
samples.

For faeces, not so much.  I've had sample scrapers mailed to
me for return by post (check for blood in stool as a sign of
colon cancer).  Never been told to poop in a pot and hand it
in at the GP.  So not sure about those places collecting or
receiving samples.

For blood, nope.  I've never been given a bottle to fill with my
blood at home, by myself.  Those samples aren't collected,
or received when I hand them over, they're taken.

Given all the other medical terminology in healthcare, phlebotomy
seems fine.  I know where to go when they want to draw some
phleb.

--
Paul

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

dieterdreist
In reply to this post by Paul Allen
Am Do., 14. Jan. 2021 um 23:12 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen <[hidden email]>:
Given all the other medical terminology in healthcare, phlebotomy
seems fine.  I know where to go when they want to draw some
phleb.



IMHO, we shoud strive for a simpler term here, e.g. blood_draw, which seems "easier" english then the specific medical term.

Cheers
Martin

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Re: healthcare=sample_collection

Paul Allen
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 09:49, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am Do., 14. Jan. 2021 um 23:12 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen <[hidden email]>:

IMHO, we shoud strive for a simpler term here, e.g. blood_draw, which seems "easier" english then the specific medical term.

For this British English speaker, "blood draw" is strange.  Admittedly
I don't watch US TV shows based in medical setting, so maybe many
of my compatriots understand it.  My first thought was they handed out
red crayons so we could draw some blood.  Then I figured out it meant
withdrawing blood, not drawing blood.  So like donating blood to a
transfusion service, right?

How about blood_sampling (where "sampling" is a gerund)?

--
Paul


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