highway=crossing and crossing=*

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highway=crossing and crossing=*

Gerd Petermann

Hi all,


again and again I find roads tagged with highway=crossing

instead of highway=footway [+ footway=crossing]

or maybe highway=cycleway [+ cycleway=crossing]


I think the wiki pages for highway=crossing and crossing=* are too confusing.

While the tag wiki for highway=crossing is clear that the tag should only be used on nodes, the tag

crossing=* is also appropriate for ways (so says the wiki).


See

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dcrossing

and

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing

and

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Approved_features/Road_crossings


If I got that right, the tags crossing=* (and crossing_ref=*) can be used like this:

1) only on the node that is tagged highway=crossing (this seems to be the most often used variant)

2) on both the way that crosses the major road as well as the node

3) only on the minor way


I see one major problem with option 2):

It allows conflicting attributes, e.g. crossing=traffic_lights on the node and crossing=uncontrolled on the way.


So I think the wiki should discourage the use of crossing=* and crossing_ref=* on the minor way. What do you think?


Gerd

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Re: highway=crossing and crossing=*

Warin
On 6/02/2016 8:13 PM, Gerd Petermann wrote:

        
Hi all,

        


        
again and again I find roads tagged with highway=crossing 


        
instead of highway=footway [+ footway=crossing]

        
or maybe highway=cycleway [+ cycleway=crossing]


        


        
I think the wiki pages for highway=crossing and crossing=* are too confusing.

        
While the tag wiki for highway=crossing is clear that the tag should only be used on nodes, the tag

        
crossing=* is also appropriate for ways (so says the wiki).



        
See


        
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dcrossing

        
and


        
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing

        
and

        
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Approved_features/Road_crossings


        

If I got that right, the tags crossing=* (and crossing_ref=*) can be used like this:


        
1) only on the node that is tagged highway=crossing (this seems to be the most often used variant)
Yes

        

2) on both the way that crosses the major road as well as the node
Yes

        
3) only on the minor way
I don't 'like' this one. But then there are a few things I don't 'like' that OSM permits. 


        
I see one major problem with option 2):


        
It allows conflicting attributes, e.g. crossing=traffic_lights on the node and crossing=uncontrolled on the way.
It does. 

        


        
So I think the wiki should discourage the use of crossing=* and crossing_ref=* on the minor way. What do you think?

The 'problem' comes from 'mirco mapping'. 
The mapping of a crossing as a node says nothing about the width nor length of the crossing. 
And if the crossing is over several lanes, and those lanes are mapped on the data base there would have to be 
a number of nodes with highway=crossing .. and each node could have a different (conflicting) crossing= tag! 
So the 'problem' of conflicting crossing= tags may be better served by 
requesting mappers to only declare one crossing= tag .. either; 

a) on a node (where there is a single node involved) 

or 

b) on the minor way (where a number of nodes may be involved)? 

    
More thinking required? Certainly by me ... this is a first though after reading your post. 

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Re: highway=crossing and crossing=*

dieterdreist


sent from a phone

> Am 06.02.2016 um 11:04 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>
> So the 'problem' of conflicting crossing= tags may be better served by requesting mappers to only declare one crossing= tag .. either;


I don't see the problem of possibly conflicting tagging: it indicates an error. If you ask to only put the crossing tag on one element then you'll likely get the same errors, just that you can't find them automatically any more. On a bigger crossing over several carriageways there might also be both present: uncontrolled (zebra-) crossings and traffic lights. I'm adding the crossing=* to nodes on the carriageways that are crossed, and believe that it belongs there.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: highway=crossing and crossing=*

Richard Mann-2
Nodes don't have an orientation, so I find it useful to put crossing=* tags on the footway/cycleway, so I can render it with a nice set of black and white stripes. 

Eg: http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/cyclemap/?zoom=3&lat=51.74075&lon=-1.25238&layers=B0TF

I also add the tags to the intersecting node, since some people (eg the cycle layer) make use of that data.

Leave it alone.

On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:


sent from a phone

> Am 06.02.2016 um 11:04 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>
> So the 'problem' of conflicting crossing= tags may be better served by requesting mappers to only declare one crossing= tag .. either;


I don't see the problem of possibly conflicting tagging: it indicates an error. If you ask to only put the crossing tag on one element then you'll likely get the same errors, just that you can't find them automatically any more. On a bigger crossing over several carriageways there might also be both present: uncontrolled (zebra-) crossings and traffic lights. I'm adding the crossing=* to nodes on the carriageways that are crossed, and believe that it belongs there.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: highway=crossing and crossing=*

Gerd Petermann
Richard Mann-2 wrote
Nodes don't have an orientation, so I find it useful to put crossing=* tags
on the footway/cycleway, so I can render it with a nice set of black and
white stripes.

Eg:
http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/cyclemap/?zoom=3&lat=51.74075&lon=-1.25238&layers=B0TF

I also add the tags to the intersecting node, since some people (eg the
cycle layer) make use of that data.

Leave it alone.
OK, I can live with that. Is it okay when I change the wiki for crossing* so that it makes
clear that highway=crossing should not be used on ways? I think I just have to add the list of the
three alternatives.  
I also agree with Warin that the 3rd alternative (crossing=* only on the minor way) is not a good idea,
so I think these two alternatives should be mentioned:

Use crossing=* like this:
1) add it to the node that is tagged highway=crossing
2) optionally add the crossing=* tag to the way that crosses the major road

Better ideas?

Gerd
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Re: highway=crossing and crossing=*

Gerd Petermann
In reply to this post by Richard Mann-2

I am not sure if my answer via GIS made it to the list ?

http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/highway-crossing-and-crossing-tp5866832p5866884.html


Gerd



Von: Richard Mann <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Februar 2016 15:44
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] highway=crossing and crossing=*
 
Nodes don't have an orientation, so I find it useful to put crossing=* tags on the footway/cycleway, so I can render it with a nice set of black and white stripes. 

Eg: http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/cyclemap/?zoom=3&lat=51.74075&lon=-1.25238&layers=B0TF

I also add the tags to the intersecting node, since some people (eg the cycle layer) make use of that data.

Leave it alone.

On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <[hidden email]> wrote:


sent from a phone

> Am 06.02.2016 um 11:04 schrieb Warin <[hidden email]>:
>
> So the 'problem' of conflicting crossing= tags may be better served by requesting mappers to only declare one crossing= tag .. either;


I don't see the problem of possibly conflicting tagging: it indicates an error. If you ask to only put the crossing tag on one element then you'll likely get the same errors, just that you can't find them automatically any more. On a bigger crossing over several carriageways there might also be both present: uncontrolled (zebra-) crossings and traffic lights. I'm adding the crossing=* to nodes on the carriageways that are crossed, and believe that it belongs there.

cheers,
Martin
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