openstreetmap roadmap?

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openstreetmap roadmap?

Ehud Shabtai
Hi,

I've been wondering what is the roadmap of openstreetmap. I'm interested
in creating some free maps for my country (Israel), but I'm not sure if
this project fits my requirements.

I understand that you are working on a new applet, is there a list of
features it will support?

My main interest is doing maps for routing which means I need an option
to add meta data for each road segment (name, street numbers, connection
to other segments, etc'). The approach I'm thinking of is having a
server which will receive GPS tracks, transfer them to road segments and
nodes and merge with current map. I also think that it is important to
use postgis database as there are already many tools which can connect
to it and allow viewing (mapserver) or editing (qgis, uDig, etc').

How does this fit to openstreetmap?

Thanks,

Ehud.


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Re: openstreetmap roadmap?

Lars Aronsson
Ehud Shabtai wrote:

> My main interest is doing maps for routing which means I need an
> option to add meta data for each road segment (name, street
> numbers, connection to other segments, etc'). The approach I'm
> thinking of is having a server which will receive GPS tracks,
> transfer them to road segments and nodes and merge with current
> map. I also think that it is important to use postgis database
> as there are already many tools which can connect to it and
> allow viewing (mapserver) or editing (qgis, uDig, etc').

I'm entering OSM from Sweden with very much the same wishes and
questions as you do.  I'm more and more convinced that we need two
projects on different levels: One for collecting GPS tracks, and
another one for making maps.  In fact, there could be many
parallel projects that make maps, but they could all benefit from
one big collection of track logs, available either as public
domain or licensed under Creative Commons or something similar.

Directly from a collection of track logs, you can answer a lot of
questions without drawing a map.  For example, you can determine
the speed limit and congestion patterns of a certain road just by
looking at how fast people go at different times of day and week.  
You can also see what percentage of people turn right or left in a
certain intersection.

Or you can see that people who drive from Copenhagen (west) to
Odense and Esbjerg tend to continue west to the Netherlands after
Bremen, while people who drive from Copenhagen (south) to Lübeck,
tend to continue south through Germany after Bremen.

                     Esbjerg--Odense--Copenhagen
                      |               |
                      |               |
    ----Bremen------Hamburg-------Lübeck
          |
          |

How can it be that if you aim to go west after Bremen, you drive a
different, more westerly route to Hamburg than if you aim south
from Bremen?  Is this just Sxpert, or is it a general human
psychological behaviour?  I think I would have done the same.  
Apparently, we will need a great many track logs to find answers
to these questions.

Right now I'm looking for something better than openstreetmap.org,
but haven't found any.  So I'm helping to build maps here in the
hope that this will convince more people to give away their track
logs.


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: openstreetmap roadmap?

Raphael Jacquot-2
Lars Aronsson wrote:

> Or you can see that people who drive from Copenhagen (west) to
> Odense and Esbjerg tend to continue west to the Netherlands after
> Bremen, while people who drive from Copenhagen (south) to Lübeck,
> tend to continue south through Germany after Bremen.
>
>                      Esbjerg--Odense--Copenhagen
>                       |               |
>                       |               |
>     ----Bremen------Hamburg-------Lübeck
>           |
>           |
>
> How can it be that if you aim to go west after Bremen, you drive a
> different, more westerly route to Hamburg than if you aim south
> from Bremen?  Is this just Sxpert, or is it a general human
> psychological behaviour?  I think I would have done the same.  
> Apparently, we will need a great many track logs to find answers
> to these questions.

heh, you are currently searching WAAAYYY too deep :D
turns out that these tracks are the result of 2 different trips.
trip one (through .nl, lubeck, copenhagen) is a direct result of me
going through .nl to catch a friend and going to Oslo with him (the
cheapest route was taking that ferry)
trip 2 (through esbjerg) was because I had time to kill before going to
my first destination (Billund), then going to .se...

> Right now I'm looking for something better than openstreetmap.org,
> but haven't found any.  So I'm helping to build maps here in the
> hope that this will convince more people to give away their track
> logs.


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Re: openstreetmap roadmap?

Tom Carden
In reply to this post by Lars Aronsson
Lars Aronsson:
> Right now I'm looking for something better than openstreetmap.org,

What would it look like?  Why isn't OpenStreetMap it?  What is OSM doing
wrong?

OpenStreetMap has around 5 (very) part-time developers, and we cherry pick
from a (very) long todo list.  The list grows daily thanks to this mailing
list (a major strength of the project, I think)  There's a lot of hype, a
lot of enthusiasm, quite a lot of momentum, some reasonable infrastructure,
some generous data providers, and a lot of potential.

As far as I know, the current developers (active contributors of code) don't
really see the benefit of diving in head first with any of the current Open
GIS solutions out there, for many reasons.  This is the main criticism
levelled at OSM, yet nobody has a solution.  Certainly not one that anyone
knows how to implement.

Steve has done his very best to make everything Open - where would you like
to see OpenStreetMap go, and what's stopping you from helping?

Best,

Tom.


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Re: openstreetmap roadmap?

Lars Aronsson
Tom Carden wrote:

> Lars Aronsson:
> > Right now I'm looking for something better than openstreetmap.org,
>
> What would it look like?  Why isn't OpenStreetMap it?  What is OSM doing
> wrong?

I didn't want to say that OSM is doing anything wrong.  I think it
is walking in the right direction.  But it has a long way to go,
and I wish someone had come further.  The idea isn't exactly new.

The URL http://www.lysator.liu.se/rwi/s3daacfa.html
shows my previous attempt at hand drawing a map of Linköping, and
that web page hasn't been updated since May 1, 1994. Compare that
to my new attempt *eleven years* later,
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit/viewMap.jsp?lat=58.45&lon=15.6&scale=0.001

I called my early experiment the "Real World Interface" and this
"version 2" in 1994 was based on the web.  My first ASCII- and
telnet-based attempt in 1991 (RWI v. 1) was too primitive, which
is why I decided to digitize literature (runeberg.org) instead of
making maps, and later got involved in wikis (susning.nu,
wikipedia.org).  That's where I've spent the last decade.  

Today everybody knows what the web is (which wasn't the case in
1994) and we can take stuff like Wikipedia for granted.  Since May
2000 we have GPS with 15 meter accuracy.  With all these
components in place, and a good approach we should be able to
attract a few thousand spill-over volunteers from Wikipedia,
Slashdot, Geocaching.com and similar crowds.

For me this is just starting.  We should move forward as fast as
we can, but no faster than that.  The Limehouse event should be
replicated in more places, but the current primitive editing
applet isn't "ready" for hundreds of new users.  It would take
longer to explain all its deficiencies to hundreds of beginners
than to redesign it and fix the problems.  Instead we need to
attract a few at a time that will then help to improve the tools,
so we can attract more users, and spiral upwards.  At every step,
we should be aware that this is a long ladder.

> Steve has done his very best to make everything Open - where
> would you like to see OpenStreetMap go, and what's stopping you
> from helping?

Right now I'm helping by adding track logs and drawing "lines",
using the Java applet.  I want to get a feeling for the volumes of
data and work that are needed, and also to be able to show
something to my friends.  The map of lines already looks better
than my 1994 attempt.  The Java applet seems to be the bottleneck
right now, but since a new version is already coming, I'll wait a
little before I get involved in the coding.

I've been involved in OSM for exactly two months now, as
documented on [[user:LA2]], and my planning horizon is 1 or 2
weeks.  I will bring my GPS to Wikimania and hope to map parts of
Frankfurt while geocaching, and then to demonstrate OSM to other
attendees there.


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Re: openstreetmap roadmap?

Tom Carden
Lars,

Thanks for the patient and detailed reply.  Let me echo Steve in saying
that your input and enthusiasm is really valued, and that we are
listening. A little patience wouldn't go amiss, nobody is getting paid
here, and nobody *should* be doing this or that...

Aside from time spent answering mail to this list, development is
proceeding at about 1 or 2 hours a week for me... not enough, but all I
can give.  One thing we might do with the potential funds I mentioned is
pay for a week or two of targetted coding from rentacoder or similar.  A
coherent and complete API and reference would be essential before that
to maintain the vision though.

Regards,

Tom.


Lars Aronsson wrote:

> Tom Carden wrote:
>
>
>>Lars Aronsson:
>>
>>>Right now I'm looking for something better than openstreetmap.org,
>>
>>What would it look like?  Why isn't OpenStreetMap it?  What is OSM doing
>>wrong?
>
>
> I didn't want to say that OSM is doing anything wrong.  I think it
> is walking in the right direction.  But it has a long way to go,
> and I wish someone had come further.  The idea isn't exactly new.
>
> The URL http://www.lysator.liu.se/rwi/s3daacfa.html
> shows my previous attempt at hand drawing a map of Link�ping, and
> that web page hasn't been updated since May 1, 1994. Compare that
> to my new attempt *eleven years* later,
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit/viewMap.jsp?lat=58.45&lon=15.6&scale=0.001
>
> I called my early experiment the "Real World Interface" and this
> "version 2" in 1994 was based on the web.  My first ASCII- and
> telnet-based attempt in 1991 (RWI v. 1) was too primitive, which
> is why I decided to digitize literature (runeberg.org) instead of
> making maps, and later got involved in wikis (susning.nu,
> wikipedia.org).  That's where I've spent the last decade.  
>
> Today everybody knows what the web is (which wasn't the case in
> 1994) and we can take stuff like Wikipedia for granted.  Since May
> 2000 we have GPS with 15 meter accuracy.  With all these
> components in place, and a good approach we should be able to
> attract a few thousand spill-over volunteers from Wikipedia,
> Slashdot, Geocaching.com and similar crowds.
>
> For me this is just starting.  We should move forward as fast as
> we can, but no faster than that.  The Limehouse event should be
> replicated in more places, but the current primitive editing
> applet isn't "ready" for hundreds of new users.  It would take
> longer to explain all its deficiencies to hundreds of beginners
> than to redesign it and fix the problems.  Instead we need to
> attract a few at a time that will then help to improve the tools,
> so we can attract more users, and spiral upwards.  At every step,
> we should be aware that this is a long ladder.
>
>
>>Steve has done his very best to make everything Open - where
>>would you like to see OpenStreetMap go, and what's stopping you
>>from helping?
>
>
> Right now I'm helping by adding track logs and drawing "lines",
> using the Java applet.  I want to get a feeling for the volumes of
> data and work that are needed, and also to be able to show
> something to my friends.  The map of lines already looks better
> than my 1994 attempt.  The Java applet seems to be the bottleneck
> right now, but since a new version is already coming, I'll wait a
> little before I get involved in the coding.
>
> I've been involved in OSM for exactly two months now, as
> documented on [[user:LA2]], and my planning horizon is 1 or 2
> weeks.  I will bring my GPS to Wikimania and hope to map parts of
> Frankfurt while geocaching, and then to demonstrate OSM to other
> attendees there.
>
>



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